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  • JiggyJiggy Member Race Steward
    Jiggy said:
    Jiggy said:
    Lukedfrt said:
    Yeah they definitely shouldn't have sacked him, needed another 5 games to settle the players in properly. I'm gutted it didn't work out, he had a real connection with the fans.. I do think he's a bit overrated though, and he has made a few questionable signings that we're now left with.
    That's Harry Redknapp in a nutshell, popular figure, but a lousy manager, odd tranfer dealings that can cripple a club for years to come and an overall lousy human being.
    I wouldn't say he was lousy  a lot of the time he was working at clubs with pretty limited resources and a lot of the time were facing stuff like relegation and a lot of the time he saved them. As for the weird transfer dealing the people who own the clubs are probably just as much if not more responsible for that than he is.
    He relegated Southampton and QPR, ruined Portsmouth and Queens Park Rangers by signing a monster load of odd players on shady contracts with crippling clauses and had a Tottenham with Modric and Bale in them and finished behind an Arsenal led by Song and Benayoun. Former players like Van der Vaart has stated that his tactical prowess and level of professionalism is basically non-existent and that the players basically managed themselves at Tottenham. Horrible manager. Especially at QPR, that was peak Redknapp. One of the highest wage bills in the league, had CL-winners in his side, Julio Cesar at goal, but dropped him for Green and QPR was dead last. Twice.

    I also strongly disagree with the idea that the club is more responsible for Redknapp's mismanagement than Redknapp himself. You shouldn't give Redknapp that much liberties, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he misuses them greatly when he gets them. Always finds a way to get "his people" involved. Plus English football culture is about giving the manager lots of freedom to control the technical aspect of the game. I think West Brom a few years ago with Clarke, was one of the few clubs where they didn't had a manager, but a head coach who had zero say in which players came in. Either way, you can at best blame the club for making the appointment, but that doesn't excuse Redknapp's disgraceful wheel-and-dealing ways that's somehow branded as endearing by the media over the years.

    Zola was doing a terrible job, so last season was more about getting him out than getting someone in, but Birmingham City should be glad they got Redknapp out as early as they did before he got a chance to sign Niko Kranjcar. Although I still don't get why they got rid of Gary Rowett.

    In the case of Southampton and QPR being relegated that was just bad luck and personally I was quite happy with what he did for us at Spurs. Got a bit unlucky with Chelsea winning the Champion's League that year but otherwise a good job. Also for me Portsmouth's problems were caused a lot by their owners not Harry imo. Cesar wasn't doing that well in QPR's goal from what I noticed that year so wasn't surprise3d he got dropped I'd have dropped him as well.
    QPR was definitely not bad luck. Bad luck is when Marco Silva got relegated with Hull City. When you've clearly set up a team with a solid organization who impresses in games, but just can't quite get the results needed to stay up. Not the case with Redknapp and QPR. That was mismanagement all over the place. A team that played like a complete mess, horrible team selection, no real mentality in them. And Julio Cesar wasn't doing well (who was), but Green ended up doing even worse.

    Missing out on CL-football with Spurs was unlucky and unprecedented in the sense that 4th wasn't enough for CL-qualification that year, but again, they lost a 15-point advantage over Arsenal. Who were a complete meme that season. That capitulation is a direct result of Redknapp's inability to install proper tactics in that team. Of course, it wasn't all bad, he still got them CL. He probably had a role in Spurs' bold approach to games and their offensive drive. However, it was extremely unbalanced. Good managers can do that and still make sure the team can at least defend. But the negative greatly outweighed the positive and Spurs haven't looked back since sacking him.

    As for Portsmouth, I can't see how that was not on Harry Redknapp. He's the one who's been given responsibility over their transfer dealings and how contracts are set up. If Redknapp didn't had a say in that, then he wouldn't be able to pocket money every time he signed a player for them. So signing a truck load of players benefitted him financially. It can't be underestimated how much influence types like Redknapp really have at smaller clubs. They get buddy-buddy with owners, get their people and their connections in and basically end up having say over the entire club. It's not like something you see with most PL-clubs nowadays where there's a clear hierarchy between club owners and manager. Bournemouth apparently got ruined in similar fashion in the 80s/90s thanks to Redknapp's ways of managing. When that happens on four seperate occassions, you can definitely point fingers at Redknapp for it. And the worst part about it, is that he knew he was running a club into the ground. Because he fully used that to his advantage when he moved from Portsmouth to Tottenham and then bought Pompey's best players for cheap fees because he knew exactly how much Pompey needed the money. And even at Tottenham, he's had some very dodgy transfers, like Pavlyuchenko, Nelsen, Saha, Khumalo, Pienaar. But it's understandable if Tottenham-fans aren't as negative to Redknapp as fans of most other clubs, he was relatively kept in check there. But again, Tottenham isn't a small club, they had more of a foundation to go their own way.

    I do appreciate this discussion though, it's cool to talk with someone with a different viewpoint who doesn't act like a baby when he sees opposing opinions.
  • EUfkdupEUfkdup Member New Car Smell
    Hughesy said:
    :joy: :joy: :joy:

    Talking of overrated managers...                


    There's ten teams there so it's hard to know who you're talking about but I'll assume this is another stab at Arsenal and Wenger. 

    Not sure how he's over rated though as there aren't many people who rate him whatsoever anymore. He should have called it a day years ago and saved his reputation. 


  • JiggyJiggy Member Race Steward
    EUfkdup said:
    Hughesy said:
    :joy: :joy: :joy:

    Talking of overrated managers...                


    There's ten teams there so it's hard to know who you're talking about but I'll assume this is another stab at Arsenal and Wenger. 

    Not sure how he's over rated though as there aren't many people who rate him whatsoever anymore. He should have called it a day years ago and saved his reputation. 


    Wait, do you support Arsenal too?
  • sjsharp2010sjsharp2010 Member Champion
    Jiggy said:
    Jiggy said:
    Jiggy said:
    Lukedfrt said:
    Yeah they definitely shouldn't have sacked him, needed another 5 games to settle the players in properly. I'm gutted it didn't work out, he had a real connection with the fans.. I do think he's a bit overrated though, and he has made a few questionable signings that we're now left with.
    That's Harry Redknapp in a nutshell, popular figure, but a lousy manager, odd tranfer dealings that can cripple a club for years to come and an overall lousy human being.
    I wouldn't say he was lousy  a lot of the time he was working at clubs with pretty limited resources and a lot of the time were facing stuff like relegation and a lot of the time he saved them. As for the weird transfer dealing the people who own the clubs are probably just as much if not more responsible for that than he is.
    He relegated Southampton and QPR, ruined Portsmouth and Queens Park Rangers by signing a monster load of odd players on shady contracts with crippling clauses and had a Tottenham with Modric and Bale in them and finished behind an Arsenal led by Song and Benayoun. Former players like Van der Vaart has stated that his tactical prowess and level of professionalism is basically non-existent and that the players basically managed themselves at Tottenham. Horrible manager. Especially at QPR, that was peak Redknapp. One of the highest wage bills in the league, had CL-winners in his side, Julio Cesar at goal, but dropped him for Green and QPR was dead last. Twice.

    I also strongly disagree with the idea that the club is more responsible for Redknapp's mismanagement than Redknapp himself. You shouldn't give Redknapp that much liberties, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he misuses them greatly when he gets them. Always finds a way to get "his people" involved. Plus English football culture is about giving the manager lots of freedom to control the technical aspect of the game. I think West Brom a few years ago with Clarke, was one of the few clubs where they didn't had a manager, but a head coach who had zero say in which players came in. Either way, you can at best blame the club for making the appointment, but that doesn't excuse Redknapp's disgraceful wheel-and-dealing ways that's somehow branded as endearing by the media over the years.

    Zola was doing a terrible job, so last season was more about getting him out than getting someone in, but Birmingham City should be glad they got Redknapp out as early as they did before he got a chance to sign Niko Kranjcar. Although I still don't get why they got rid of Gary Rowett.

    In the case of Southampton and QPR being relegated that was just bad luck and personally I was quite happy with what he did for us at Spurs. Got a bit unlucky with Chelsea winning the Champion's League that year but otherwise a good job. Also for me Portsmouth's problems were caused a lot by their owners not Harry imo. Cesar wasn't doing that well in QPR's goal from what I noticed that year so wasn't surprise3d he got dropped I'd have dropped him as well.
    QPR was definitely not bad luck. Bad luck is when Marco Silva got relegated with Hull City. When you've clearly set up a team with a solid organization who impresses in games, but just can't quite get the results needed to stay up. Not the case with Redknapp and QPR. That was mismanagement all over the place. A team that played like a complete mess, horrible team selection, no real mentality in them. And Julio Cesar wasn't doing well (who was), but Green ended up doing even worse.

    Missing out on CL-football with Spurs was unlucky and unprecedented in the sense that 4th wasn't enough for CL-qualification that year, but again, they lost a 15-point advantage over Arsenal. Who were a complete meme that season. That capitulation is a direct result of Redknapp's inability to install proper tactics in that team. Of course, it wasn't all bad, he still got them CL. He probably had a role in Spurs' bold approach to games and their offensive drive. However, it was extremely unbalanced. Good managers can do that and still make sure the team can at least defend. But the negative greatly outweighed the positive and Spurs haven't looked back since sacking him.

    As for Portsmouth, I can't see how that was not on Harry Redknapp. He's the one who's been given responsibility over their transfer dealings and how contracts are set up. If Redknapp didn't had a say in that, then he wouldn't be able to pocket money every time he signed a player for them. So signing a truck load of players benefitted him financially. It can't be underestimated how much influence types like Redknapp really have at smaller clubs. They get buddy-buddy with owners, get their people and their connections in and basically end up having say over the entire club. It's not like something you see with most PL-clubs nowadays where there's a clear hierarchy between club owners and manager. Bournemouth apparently got ruined in similar fashion in the 80s/90s thanks to Redknapp's ways of managing. When that happens on four seperate occassions, you can definitely point fingers at Redknapp for it. And the worst part about it, is that he knew he was running a club into the ground. Because he fully used that to his advantage when he moved from Portsmouth to Tottenham and then bought Pompey's best players for cheap fees because he knew exactly how much Pompey needed the money. And even at Tottenham, he's had some very dodgy transfers, like Pavlyuchenko, Nelsen, Saha, Khumalo, Pienaar. But it's understandable if Tottenham-fans aren't as negative to Redknapp as fans of most other clubs, he was relatively kept in check there. But again, Tottenham isn't a small club, they had more of a foundation to go their own way.

    I do appreciate this discussion though, it's cool to talk with someone with a different viewpoint who doesn't act like a baby when he sees opposing opinions.
    My point is though the Porttsmouth owners could have still said no we can't afford it after all that is their job. So in my view it still makes them just as guilty for their demise in the end.

    In war victory, In peace vigilance, In death sacrifice -grey warden motto

  • fIsince08fIsince08 Member Moderator

    I am not a Codemasters employee.

    #RIPJules

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  • HughesyHughesy Member Champion
    Haha you need to start smoking bud  :p             
  • JiggyJiggy Member Race Steward
    West Ham went and appointed Moyes, which I would put down as a move ensuring relegation if there weren't at least four other teams being abysmal around them.
  • HughesyHughesy Member Champion
    Flashback to when a guy I used to play football with down the park who is a goalkeeper, scored from a corner  :D


  • fIsince08fIsince08 Member Moderator
    For crying out loud, we must be the only club in history to have their caretaker manager walk out to join another club!

    I am not a Codemasters employee.

    #RIPJules

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  • JiggyJiggy Member Race Steward
    This is getting Portsmouth-esque for Sunderland. Betting they still have players on massive wages like Rodwell.
  • EUfkdupEUfkdup Member New Car Smell
    fIsince08 said:
    Jiggy said:
    fIsince08 said:
    Hughesy said:
    Losing the first game of the season 8-2 isn't great, that's me being polite. Still Norwich lost first game of the season 7-2 or something a few years ago and won the league, that's me clutching at straws.....

    I was quite happy with our draw yesterday, I was fearing double drop!
    I don't see Sundreland suffering a double relegation your teams not that bad.
    I can tbh. Easily. Going to put money on it too, the way Sunderland is being managed.
    We aren't going down again. Our squad is by no means relegation bad and Grayson knows what he is doing. Short is looking to sell, he's not going to let us go down again and lose more money.
    How do you feel about your chances now? First team in Football League history to now go 20 home games without a victory. That IS relegation form.

    As for Coleman taking the job, I'm not sure I understand it at all. Leave a job where you are adored by your nation and lived the highs of a Euro semi final, to sign up to a poisoned chalice. I mean, fair play if he does a fine job and sorts the club out but can you really see that happening under the current set up of the club?
  • fIsince08fIsince08 Member Moderator
    EUfkdup said:
    fIsince08 said:
    Jiggy said:
    fIsince08 said:
    Hughesy said:
    Losing the first game of the season 8-2 isn't great, that's me being polite. Still Norwich lost first game of the season 7-2 or something a few years ago and won the league, that's me clutching at straws.....

    I was quite happy with our draw yesterday, I was fearing double drop!
    I don't see Sundreland suffering a double relegation your teams not that bad.
    I can tbh. Easily. Going to put money on it too, the way Sunderland is being managed.
    We aren't going down again. Our squad is by no means relegation bad and Grayson knows what he is doing. Short is looking to sell, he's not going to let us go down again and lose more money.
    How do you feel about your chances now? First team in Football League history to now go 20 home games without a victory. That IS relegation form.

    As for Coleman taking the job, I'm not sure I understand it at all. Leave a job where you are adored by your nation and lived the highs of a Euro semi final, to sign up to a poisoned chalice. I mean, fair play if he does a fine job and sorts the club out but can you really see that happening under the current set up of the club?
    Our squad still isn't that bad and I'm confident about Coleman. I guess he feels he's taken Wales as far as he can go and he has quite a good club record so I'm happy with the appointment. He needs funds in January though and it might be worth looking for a new free goalie with us having Pinky and Perky.

    I am not a Codemasters employee.

    #RIPJules

    ---->Forum Rules<----   ---->Forum FAQ<----

  • sjsharp2010sjsharp2010 Member Champion
    fIsince08 said:
    EUfkdup said:
    fIsince08 said:
    Jiggy said:
    fIsince08 said:
    Hughesy said:
    Losing the first game of the season 8-2 isn't great, that's me being polite. Still Norwich lost first game of the season 7-2 or something a few years ago and won the league, that's me clutching at straws.....

    I was quite happy with our draw yesterday, I was fearing double drop!
    I don't see Sundreland suffering a double relegation your teams not that bad.
    I can tbh. Easily. Going to put money on it too, the way Sunderland is being managed.
    We aren't going down again. Our squad is by no means relegation bad and Grayson knows what he is doing. Short is looking to sell, he's not going to let us go down again and lose more money.
    How do you feel about your chances now? First team in Football League history to now go 20 home games without a victory. That IS relegation form.

    As for Coleman taking the job, I'm not sure I understand it at all. Leave a job where you are adored by your nation and lived the highs of a Euro semi final, to sign up to a poisoned chalice. I mean, fair play if he does a fine job and sorts the club out but can you really see that happening under the current set up of the club?
    Our squad still isn't that bad and I'm confident about Coleman. I guess he feels he's taken Wales as far as he can go and he has quite a good club record so I'm happy with the appointment. He needs funds in January though and it might be worth looking for a new free goalie with us having Pinky and Perky.

    yeah I think that's the reason why he stepped down as Wales boss now as I don't think Wales would have been able to go any further than he's already taken them really they did well just to qualify for that tournament let alone get as far as they did in the Euro's. His experience in club management is limited though as he's only ever managed a couple of clubs I think since his playing retirement. Also sometimes managers prefer to deal with things on a day to day basis rather than just 3 days a month or so everytime a qualifying match comes round. It's probably a good job for Coleman as it gets him back into club management at a club that is struggling but given a chance he may know just how to change it's fortunes


    In war victory, In peace vigilance, In death sacrifice -grey warden motto

  • HughesyHughesy Member Champion
    If Coleman can’t save them, then there’s no hope for Sunderland. Imagine a team that big in league 1 though. 
  • fIsince08fIsince08 Member Moderator
    He only really needs to sort the defence. Our scoring record is up there with the teams in the playoffs, just we've shipped way too many easy goals.

    I am not a Codemasters employee.

    #RIPJules

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  • EUfkdupEUfkdup Member New Car Smell
    Hughesy said:
    If Coleman can’t save them, then there’s no hope for Sunderland. Imagine a team that big in league 1 though. 
    Been many teams of a similar size in League 1 recently. Leeds, Southampton, Leicester and Blackburn to name a few. Hell, even City were there not too long ago! 

    Problem is, if the club is being run poorly, anything can actually happen. It may well be that Coleman works miracles there but with the amount of managers that have come and gone recently, there has to be a deeper lying problem somewhere.
  • HughesyHughesy Member Champion
    Oh I’m not saying they are too big to go down, as nobody are too big or small to go up/down, hell we (Yeovil) got to the championship. I know all about a club being mismanaged, try being relegated in successive seasons and then only just avoiding three in a row....
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