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Unreal Engine

euphoreoneuphoreon Member New Car Smell
Why don't Codies want to change engines? EGO still looks extremely dated to me, and the differences each year are minor at best. Unreal has so much more capability. Assetto Corsa has moved, Milestone, GTR etc etc

Already seen quite a big difference in visuals, look at that wet weather comparison...

ACC looks fantastic. F1 could really use a new look imo, never really had a substantial change. A fresh and new look would be welcome.
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Comments

  • stephensmattleestephensmattlee Member Race Steward
    Whilst yes a fair few other game developers are switching to Unreal Engine, I personally can’t see Codemasters making that change. 
    They’ve been using and developing their own EGO engine for many years and the engine itself has progressed as the technology has advanced over time.  Starting again from scratch and adjusting to a whole new engine would be a lot of work.

    I think realistically they’ll continue updating the EGO engine as time progresses, much like EA with their Frostbite engine.

    I definitely recommend the Digital Foundry video on the making of Onrush as it goes very in-depth about the technical side of developing the game. There’s even a part in it where Paul talks about developing and updating parts of the engine that could also be used for Codemasters’ other studios and teams.  

    Here’s the link if you missed it :smile:
    ... https://youtu.be/rC9wmXDzAX0
  • reece12378reece12378 Member New Car Smell
    It would take too much work to switch engines, the physics would be different and most core elements would have to be changed. Plus the EGO engine is there engine so they wouldn't want to change there engine as that engine would just go to waste. Switching to the unreal engine would also make it easier for people to get the models and modifier the files which the EGO engine does an excellent job at already. 
    I dont really see a problem with the graphics honestly, its only the AA that needs improving imo.
  • LilBrown47LilBrown47 Member Petrol Head
    Short summary of ACC Unreal:


    Official Interview of Kunos at Racedepartment Part 1:


    Official Interview of Kunos at Racedepartment Part 2:


    Only downsides are the high one time costs of adoption (building / structuring / altering / copying & pasting etc. useful old and or more likely totally new data to get the game running at a decent level) and the additional costs of human ressources (possibly even more <highly skilled> devs will be needed) that Codies would have to pay (speaking of payment, royalty fees will also be charged if the finished product is being sold at a high volume, so Codies will be forced to give up a little bit of their revenue and or make a licensing deal with Epic), and the fact that at least at the moment it could hypothetically become more hardware dependent to render the games image at a acceptable framerate especially on consoles if Codies do not establish a well functioning but a poorly optimized product (which could become a issue for players with a standard or small sized wallet and those that already are fed up with Codemasters to begin with), but then again hardware tech is growing and getting more and more advanced to the point where it makes sense to jump ships and take on the "Unreal Challenge" to get a good long term deal of investment with a higher quality output (a new more powerful console generation will be coming in the next 2 - 4 years anyways so why not take the risk now to build a solid foundation?). 

    Don't forget the Unreal engine is open source and thus highly customizable, well established and tested by a huge amount of different game studios and privateers respectively (which is why it is now at the state where it can be used for practically almost any type of genre and is far cheaper than Codies trying to rebuild or make a new game engine that will be at the same level as Unreal), the performance is among one of the best in the whole industry and gets a lot of praise, also it is the perfect engine if you work with a team of specialists and experts as every single aspect of this software is clearly structured and well organized.

    TLDR: Costs might be too high atm, but it's a good choice for the future and will positively influence the workflow that goes into production as well as improve the physics / audiovisuals of Codies products as well.

    Unreal enginr > Ego engine





    Take the "Black Pill".....

    #NukeHumanity
  • UP100UP100 Member Race Engineer
    Unreal enginr > Ego engine
    So you want to tell us why Unreal Engine is better than EGO without me having to watch 1.5 hours of footage I don't want to watch?

    Also you mentioned UE is open source. I couldn't find which open source license it would use. What I can see that you can find the source files of the engine to download, but the license is still not even close to being open source...


  • KiLLu12258KiLLu12258 Member Unleaded
    i think mostly the cars dont look really well in f1 specially the colors.

    German F1 League
  • stephensmattleestephensmattlee Member Race Steward
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements. 

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine :smile:  
  • LilBrown47LilBrown47 Member Petrol Head
    @UP100

    >So you want to tell us why Unreal Engine is better than EGO without me having to watch 1.5 hours of footage I don't want to watch?

    Second paragraph + TLDR of my previous post, also it's more than obvious that either Codies are lacking manpower and or that the EGO engine is simply a mess and not "dev - friendly" at all, otherwise we wouldn't be confronted by the same bugs and glitches over and over again.

    UE4 on the other hand though has been worked upon and alteredy by a big community of different game studios / privateers of all types of genres for decades and pretty much got ironed out for the most part.

    >Also you mentioned UE is open source. I couldn't find which open source license it would use. What I can see that you can find the source files of the engine to download, but the license is still not even close to being open source...

    Source is open, proprietary licence.

    Yes, "open source" usually gets used as a term for the licencing procedure (thanks to "Open Source Initiative" appropriating the word for them.....), but i meant that the code is openly accessible for those that do get and download the engines assets after getting the UE membership and can be fully changed, cutomized or altered as long as it is being done under the guidelines of Epics EULA.

    PS: Are you not into Assetto Corsa? 

     
    Take the "Black Pill".....

    #NukeHumanity
  • UP100UP100 Member Race Engineer
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements. 

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine
    Maybe @arookCM can give us a response to this. I don't know do any teams have a plan to use that engine. I'm quite sure other teams want to take parts of it though to their games.
  • UP100UP100 Member Race Engineer
    edited June 7
    also it's more than obvious that either Codies are lacking manpower and or that the EGO engine is simply a mess and not "dev - friendly" at all, otherwise we wouldn't be confronted by the same bugs and glitches over and over again.
    How many same bugs do the DIRT games have for example? This seems to only be an issue with the F1 team (Which I still believe is only in Birmingham. The F1 team is a troubling situation every game where they don't have enough time to do everything as most assets aren't ready until the last moment and take a lot of time to make.

    UE4 on the other hand though has been worked upon and alteredy by a big community of different game studios / privateers of all types of genres for decades and pretty much got ironed out for the most part.
    But that doesn't mean it's better though. You still didn't give a reason why it's better. You just keep saying it has a bigger community. EGO engine has also been used in many genres (Racing games, Tactical shooters and First person shooters) and EGO engine has been used and upgraded for a decade now.

    Source is open, proprietary licence.
    But to my knowledge that isn't open source as I think most definitions are: Free to modify, use and distribute. At least I couldn't find any definitions that say otherwise.

    PS: Are you not into Assetto Corsa?
    Not really. I prefer rFactor games most of the time. I own it though.


    E: Also let me know if I sound angry or something here. My English usually makes me seem like I'm attacking other people.
  • CmdrCodyCmdrCody Member Wheel Nut
    euphoreon said:
    Already seen quite a big difference in visuals, look at that wet weather comparison...
    One small detail between MotoGP 17 and MotoGP 18: The new one with the Unreal engine only runs at 30 frames per second, unlike the previous custom engine which managed 60 frames per second. Racing game engines that only run at 30 frames per second are a major failure, in my opinion, and I definitely won't buy such a product.

    The Unreal engine was originally designed and optimized for first person shooters set mainly indoors. It takes a lot of work to make it perform well for open-world scenes. PUBG is a great example: it also uses the Unreal engine, but it runs like s***; on consoles it drops down to a laughable 10 frames per second when jumping down from the plane at the start of a match.

    Fortnite is similar to PUBG but it runs very well, mainly because the Fortnite developers work for the same company that makes the Unreal engine, so they know the engine in-and-out and know how to optimize it. It's not easy for a 3rd party team to take the Unreal engine and use it for something significantly different than what it was designed for. I'm looking forward to seeing the new Assetto Corsa - in the videos it looks great, but I wonder if the developers will manage to make it run smoothly.
  • stephensmattleestephensmattlee Member Race Steward
    Exactly that, for me Assetto Corsa Competizione will be the real test, if the gameplay really does look as good as the screenshots they’ve released plus they manage to keep the same high level of on-track realism as the original AC, not to mention having it run smoothly in terms of performance, then I may be swayed in favour of it.  
    But for me MotoGP 18 looks like cack I’m sorry to say.  I guess that could partly be down to time constraints in not having as much time as they’d have liked to make the most of the engines capabilities visually  
  • FRACTUREDFRACTURED Member, Drivers Champion
    CmdrCody said: PUBG is a great example: it also uses the Unreal engine, but it runs like s***; on consoles it drops down to a laughable 10 frames per second when jumping down from the plane at the start of a match.




    To be fair PUBG wasn't exactly blazing frames on PC to begin with. What will PUBG look like once it's out of Game Preview in xbox? Bet their improvement will be more noticeable than what we've had over ten years of CODIES F1 on xbox through ego 3, 3.5 and apparently 4.

    Fortnite was also developed exclusively for Unreal 4 with initial idea in something like 2012, developed to a series of betas in 2015 and onwards, and the release of the standard game last summer followed by the BR version  




    VIOLENCE. SPEED. MOMENTUM.

    The two time, 2016/2018 F1 Beta testing Champion of the World.
  • haitch40haitch40 Member, Drivers Pit Crew
    edited June 7
    Lets think why this won't happen.

    Ego does a good job.

    Ego is owned by CM. If they go to another company the average fee for a game engine is 5% of all sales. 
  • pulcopulco Member New Car Smell
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements. 

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine :smile:  
    You're making a mistake. F1 2017 uses EGO 3.0
    Here is the proof : http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/39631/ego-4-0-engine-details#


  • UP100UP100 Member Race Engineer
    pulco said:
    You're making a mistake. F1 2017 uses EGO 3.0
    Here is the proof : http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/39631/ego-4-0-engine-details#

    I think I'll stick to using the name most people use. Shame it's not what Codemasters employees want, but as they said it's irrelevant in the end.
  • stephensmattleestephensmattlee Member Race Steward
    pulco said:
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements. 

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine :smile:  
    You're making a mistake. F1 2017 uses EGO 3.0
    Here is the proof : http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/39631/ego-4-0-engine-details#


    3.0 still? Guess there must be a lot of inaccurate articles out there, most of them say 4.0 for F1 2015, 16 and 17 and DiRT 4 too? 
  • UP100UP100 Member Race Engineer
    pulco said:
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements. 

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine :smile:  
    You're making a mistake. F1 2017 uses EGO 3.0
    Here is the proof : http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/39631/ego-4-0-engine-details#


    3.0 still? Guess there must be a lot of inaccurate articles out there, most of them say 4.0 for F1 2015, 16 and 17 and DiRT 4 too? 
    That would mean that F1 2013 and 2014 didn't run on 3.0 as what most people call 4.0 engine was completely new when F1 2015 was released.
  • stephensmattleestephensmattlee Member Race Steward
    edited June 7
    UP100 said:
    pulco said:
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements. 

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine :smile:  
    You're making a mistake. F1 2017 uses EGO 3.0
    Here is the proof : http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/39631/ego-4-0-engine-details#


    3.0 still? Guess there must be a lot of inaccurate articles out there, most of them say 4.0 for F1 2015, 16 and 17 and DiRT 4 too? 
    That would mean that F1 2013 and 2014 didn't run on 3.0 as what most people call 4.0 engine was completely new when F1 2015 was released.
    That was exactly what I thought, and read online too.  I’m not saying they’re right but there’s a lot of articles out there saying it went to 4.0 for F1 2015. 
    Either way it’s pretty clear every F1 game since then has been on the same engine and just had tweaks and refinements since then, expecting 2018 to continue that tradition 

    This article from gaming bolt mentions it as 4.0 too ... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/gamingbolt.com/f1-2015-wiki/amp

    Bottom of the page on this one says EGO 4.0 for the game too ... 
    https://www.virginmegastore.ae/gaming/ps4/games/f1-2017/p/283791

  • sjsharp2010sjsharp2010 Member Champion
    Realistically I think we’ll see EGO 5.0 before Codemasters contemplate switching to something like Unreal.  Personally think this years F1 game will again be 4.0 but with further tweaks and refinements

    Question though, does Onrushs’ engine have an official name?  (EVO Engine maybe ;) )...
    ...I asked Paul back in November last year about the engine they were using to make the game and he very kindly replied and said they were using their “own brand new multi-platform engine, built from the ground up to take advantage of the latest hardware”. 
    The digital foundry video did catch my attention though because there was a segment where they said some of the things they’d developed whilst making the game could potentially be used by the other teams at Codemasters.

    i guess what I’m trying to get at is that Codies could potentially adopt the new engine that the Onrush developers used across all their other studios as a fresh upgrade to the current Ego engine.  
    Could definitely see that happening instead of them switching to something like unreal engine :smile:  
    Yeah I do too I think in general CM prefer to work with engines they've developed themselves EA have pretty much got all their studios using Frostbite and I think most of the bigger more well known gaming studios do use their own engine now. Unreal is mostly used for more games that are being built on a budget now much like Unity as well.

    In war victory, In peace vigilance, In death sacrifice -grey warden motto

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