Welcome to the brand new Codemasters Forums! Be sure to check the FAQ and Forum Rules before you get started.

[Improvement] Direct steering

JaZorayJaZoray Member New Car Smell
edited December 2015 in DiRT Rally - Suggestion Box
(this topic is part of my series on malicious input tampering)

The problem here is that the rate at which the virtual player character turns the steering wheel is limited.

This means that if you flick the control input from full left to full right as fast as you can, the in-game steering wheel's reaction is much slower than that.

The solution here is to implement so-called "direct steering", in which the in game wheels turn as fast as the physical player can move their stick on their joystick/controller or wheel.

 I can see why codemasters implemented this steering dampening. Players who use a gamepad or other device with a stick, can make big changes to steering inputs faster than players who use a wheel. but we as a community must ask ourselves: do we really want these kind of handicaps? Or do we want to respect the players' choice of input devices?
For me, personally, this steering dampening is a huge issue and it's driving me mad. Nothing this year  caused me more grief than this hostile misfeature. steering dampening makes the cae almost impossible to control and my stage times are nowhere near where they could be IF THE CAR SIMPLY WASN'T SO DISOBEDIENT

 Also, Advanced Gamepad Setup is not part of the problem. I've spent 2 weeks trying every possible combination of steering sensitivity, steering linearity, and deadzone. none of them even touched the issue of steering dampening. there are exactly 8000 possible combinations, btw.

Also, there is no issue with my hardware. In Advanced Gamepad Setup, the debug view recognizes my steering inputs as quickly as i make them. Just during the race, the game decides to interpret my inputs differently.


 It makes only sense to give the players the choice of direct steering. In real life, the front wheels are connected to the steering wheel by metal rods, not wet spaghetti. of course, this should be implemented as a choice so every player can suit the input to their device and style.
Post edited by JaZoray on

[Improvement] Direct steering 24 votes

Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
87%
DidzisBusterbvi1512marcelKoralSenseiTRGardenPTMaurofalzoneRicci1971mike240Rub472SubiesauceMiggsterJaZorayhwkrPaketemanLordVerminaardRamonRadnociPhaserlmatyilama33 21 votes
No, it's absolutely necessary for everyone to have that delay
12%
austinbardacakirJuniorcossie1 3 votes
«13

Comments

  • versediversedi Member Champion
    edited December 2015
    It's not possible cause of driver's hands animation speed.
    You can turn off drivers hands and the wheel will be synced with your controller.

  • JaZorayJaZoray Member New Car Smell
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    versedi said:
    It's not possible cause of driver's hands animation speed.
    You can turn off drivers hands and the wheel will be synced with your controller.

    i found no option to disable the virtual driver.
    and i don't think the animation is the issue here.  animations can be tweaked to match realtime input. games of the past had that, too
  • versediversedi Member Champion
    edited December 2015
    JaZoray said:
    versedi said:
    It's not possible cause of driver's hands animation speed.
    You can turn off drivers hands and the wheel will be synced with your controller.

    i found no option to disable the virtual driver.
    and i don't think the animation is the issue here.  animations can be tweaked to match realtime input. games of the past had that, too
    Believe or use the search option, it was discussed a lot of times :)

    I'm on Linux right now so I'm not 100% sure but it should be:
    Main Menu
    Preferences
    Profile

    or
    Main Menu
    Options
    Game settings


    And option like: Show wheel / Show wheel + drivers hands / None
  • JaZorayJaZoray Member New Car Smell
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    versedi said:
    JaZoray said:
    versedi said:
    It's not possible cause of driver's hands animation speed.
    You can turn off drivers hands and the wheel will be synced with your controller.

    i found no option to disable the virtual driver.
    and i don't think the animation is the issue here.  animations can be tweaked to match realtime input. games of the past had that, too
    Believe or use the search option, it was discussed a lot of times :)

    I'm on Linux right now so I'm not 100% sure but it should be:
    Main Menu
    Preferences
    Profile

    or
    Main Menu
    Options
    Game settings


    And option like: Show wheel / Show wheel + drivers hands / None
    my mistake. there is intdeed an option to disable the driver animations and the wheel. i turned it off.

    But the front wheels still respond sluggishly to steering inputs. so this is unfortunately unrelated to the purpose of this topic.
  • BusterbviBusterbvi Member Wheel Nut
    edited December 2015
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    Agree with JaZoray 200% !! The steering is a nightmare, I have played with all the steering settings but its hopeless, my G25 is turned 90 deg before the car reacts, its terrible, the car is all over the place, it causes a pendulum motion on RWD cars back end because you are constantly over compensating due to this awefull null zone.  PLEASE Codies, give us precise direct steering.

    Ohh and by the way, it took me ages to find the wheel settings, I eventualy found it under ADVANCED GAMEPAD !!?? Can you please title stuff correctly so we can find it. Direct steering & wheel settings should be top priority, not gamepads ! This is a Rally driving simulation not a kiddie arcade game !

    Rant over, Buster.
    Logitec G25. Asus Z87 Pro. HX750 PSU. Win7/64. i7-4770k (stock) + True 120 cooler. 8GB DDR3 RAM @ 1866mhz. 120 GB Force SSD. 1 TB Evo SSD. EVGA GTX 980ti SC.  Asus 32 inch 4K Monitor. 2.1 Sound.  Serving wench & lap dancing facilities.
  • versediversedi Member Champion
    edited December 2015
    Do you have vertical sync turned on? Try turning it off if the input lag will disappear
  • JaZorayJaZoray Member New Car Smell
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    versedi said:
    Do you have vertical sync turned on? Try turning it off if the input lag will disappear
    Also, there is no issue with my hardware. In Advanced Gamepad Setup, the debug view recognizes my steering inputs as quickly as i make them. Just during the race, the game decides to interpret my inputs differently.
  • OzoreXSOzoreXS Member Race Steward
    Busterbvi said:
    Agree with JaZoray 200% !! The steering is a nightmare, I have played with all the steering settings but its hopeless, my G25 is turned 90 deg before the car reacts, its terrible, the car is all over the place, it causes a pendulum motion on RWD cars back end because you are constantly over compensating due to this awefull null zone.  PLEASE Codies, give us precise direct steering.

    Ohh and by the way, it took me ages to find the wheel settings, I eventualy found it under ADVANCED GAMEPAD !!?? Can you please title stuff correctly so we can find it. Direct steering & wheel settings should be top priority, not gamepads ! This is a Rally driving simulation not a kiddie arcade game !

    Rant over, Buster.
    what?!
    What are complaining of? You have deadzones man! If theres no movement of the virtual wheel during the first 90º of the G25, you have a lot of deadzone. (Deadzone with wheels is completely useless by the way)

    Setup your wheel properly. I have a 200$ cheaper wheel than you and I can feel huge inmersión and superb FFB effects. And of course, the wheel reacts in real time. What you do is what you get.

    I guess you have both, a gamepad and the G25, connected when you start Dirt Rally. Try using Dirt Rally only with G25 connected and use the predefined profile (map buttons if you want), adjust FFB to your liking and for god shake, remove deadzones!
    RAM: G.Skill TridentX 2400 16GB || CHASSIS: Cooler Master Silencio 650 Pure || CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K 4,8Ghz || GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 970 WindForce OC 4GB || PSU :Cooler Master G750M 750W || MOBO: Asus Z97 Pro Gamer || CPU Cooling: Cooler Master Seidon 120M || SSD: Samsung 840 Evo 250GB || HDD: ...many || Wheel: Logitech Driving Force GT

    >>"SEÑOR OZORES" on Steam!<<
  • BusterbviBusterbvi Member Wheel Nut
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    OzoreXS said:
    Busterbvi said:
    Agree with JaZoray 200% !! The steering is a nightmare, I have played with all the steering settings but its hopeless, my G25 is turned 90 deg before the car reacts, its terrible, the car is all over the place, it causes a pendulum motion on RWD cars back end because you are constantly over compensating due to this awefull null zone.  PLEASE Codies, give us precise direct steering.

    Ohh and by the way, it took me ages to find the wheel settings, I eventualy found it under ADVANCED GAMEPAD !!?? Can you please title stuff correctly so we can find it. Direct steering & wheel settings should be top priority, not gamepads ! This is a Rally driving simulation not a kiddie arcade game !

    Rant over, Buster.
    what?!
    What are complaining of? You have deadzones man! If theres no movement of the virtual wheel during the first 90º of the G25, you have a lot of deadzone. (Deadzone with wheels is completely useless by the way)

    Setup your wheel properly. I have a 200$ cheaper wheel than you and I can feel huge inmersión and superb FFB effects. And of course, the wheel reacts in real time. What you do is what you get.

    I guess you have both, a gamepad and the G25, connected when you start Dirt Rally. Try using Dirt Rally only with G25 connected and use the predefined profile (map buttons if you want), adjust FFB to your liking and for god shake, remove deadzones!

    OzoreXS, firstly, I have no deadzones, they have been removed in the wheel settings
    in DR. I do not have a gamepad, just a barely used G25. I have spent hours tweaking the wheel settings and experimenting but its hopeless. Vertical Sync is turned off.
    Unless anyone else has a solution, I feel direct steering is the only answer.
    Logitec G25. Asus Z87 Pro. HX750 PSU. Win7/64. i7-4770k (stock) + True 120 cooler. 8GB DDR3 RAM @ 1866mhz. 120 GB Force SSD. 1 TB Evo SSD. EVGA GTX 980ti SC.  Asus 32 inch 4K Monitor. 2.1 Sound.  Serving wench & lap dancing facilities.
  • versediversedi Member Champion
    Busterbvi said:

    OzoreXS, firstly, I have no deadzones, they have been removed in the wheel settings
    in DR. I do not have a gamepad, just a barely used G25. I have spent hours tweaking the wheel settings and experimenting but its hopeless. Vertical Sync is turned off.
    Unless anyone else has a solution, I feel direct steering is the only answer.
    Is the wheel connected directly or you have some USB hub where wheel's plugged in connected to your PC?
  • ADSTA68ADSTA68 Member New Car Smell
    Don't forget to check all the settings in the Logitech software as well.
  • JaZorayJaZoray Member New Car Smell
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    Did all these people who claim that there's something wrong with our hardware or driver settings not read the OP?

    The inputs arrive in the game almost instantly and are processed without delay. It's just that the game chooses to interpret these inputs in a very annoying way by slowing down the steering rate of the in game car front wheels.
  • JZStudiosJZStudios Member Team Principal
    I don't have an issue with this at all. What DOR are you using? Even at the 900 I use I don't feel like there's any input... sluggishness.
  • BusterbviBusterbvi Member Wheel Nut
    edited December 2015
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    OK, I need some clarification, after some though provoking posts here I went in and re-checked my wheel settings in DR, after a closer look, I see that there are wheel settings under ADVANCED GAMEPAD, after much testing, they make no difference to my G25 and my adjustments are not being saved. I see under PRESETS, a Logitec Force is listed (what is that?) but there are no wheel settings there, this is very confusing, where are the wheel settings secretly hidden ?

    Another thing, I am on Version 1.0 according to the opening screen, should Steam be updating me to version 1.2 automatically ?
    Logitec G25. Asus Z87 Pro. HX750 PSU. Win7/64. i7-4770k (stock) + True 120 cooler. 8GB DDR3 RAM @ 1866mhz. 120 GB Force SSD. 1 TB Evo SSD. EVGA GTX 980ti SC.  Asus 32 inch 4K Monitor. 2.1 Sound.  Serving wench & lap dancing facilities.
  • ADSTA68ADSTA68 Member New Car Smell
    JaZoray said:
    Did all these people who claim that there's something wrong with our hardware or driver settings not read the OP?

    The inputs arrive in the game almost instantly and are processed without delay. It's just that the game chooses to interpret these inputs in a very annoying way by slowing down the steering rate of the in game car front wheels.
    Terribly sorry to have wasted your time by offering a bit of help that you obviously thought was given without thought. :*
    How dare anyone try to give you some ideas that don't fit into your very narrow view of what may be the cause.

    Of coarse the OP was read.
    Seeing as the problem seems to be rare it would most likely be a user fault, hardware issue or those nasty little gremlin creatures out for some fun, not necessarily a game fault.
    If a problem is widespread then more than likely the game is at fault.

    Just remember you're dealing with electronics and computers, much like women they have a mind of their own which can do some totally illogical things for no reason and will easily drive you insane.
  • DidzisDidzis Member Race Engineer
    edited December 2015
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    Busterbvi said:
    Another thing, I am on Version 1.0 according to the opening screen, should Steam be updating me to version 1.2 automatically ?
    The latest version is 1.02, not 1.2, there's a difference. The in-game version number only seems to have 2 digits or maybe the devs just chose to not show the little bugfix update numbers. Anyway, steam updates automaticly, so you're most likely on 1.02 already.

    I am also not seeing any delays in the steering responsivness. I've played some games, that had steering lag, up to a point on not being playable, but DiRT is not one of them, it seems to be 1:1. There has to be something wrong with your settings. Also, have you calibrated the wheel?
    i5-3350P | Be Quiet! Shadow Rock 2 | MSI B75A-G43 Gaming | MSI HD7870 OC | Kingston HyperX Red 8GB | Kingston SSDNow V300 120GB | WDC Blue 1TB | Corsair VS550 | Fractal-Design Core 3000 | Logitech Driving Force GT

    DiRT2 | DiRT3 CE | DiRT Showdown | DiRT Rally | GRID | GRID2 | GRID Autosport
  • BusterbviBusterbvi Member Wheel Nut
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    Didzis, thanks for the input, have a look at my comments above on the wheel settings, let me know your thoughts.

    Logitec G25. Asus Z87 Pro. HX750 PSU. Win7/64. i7-4770k (stock) + True 120 cooler. 8GB DDR3 RAM @ 1866mhz. 120 GB Force SSD. 1 TB Evo SSD. EVGA GTX 980ti SC.  Asus 32 inch 4K Monitor. 2.1 Sound.  Serving wench & lap dancing facilities.
  • DidzisDidzis Member Race Engineer
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    Busterbvi said:
    Ohh and by the way, it took me ages to find the wheel settings, I eventualy found it under ADVANCED GAMEPAD !!?? Can you please title stuff correctly so we can find it. Direct steering & wheel settings should be top priority, not gamepads ! This is a Rally driving simulation not a kiddie arcade game !

    Rant over, Buster.
    Have you installed the drivers for your wheel? Because it should say "Advanced Wheel settings", when a wheel is detected. If you haven't installed the drivers (Logitech Gaming software 5.10 (I think)), the wheel might still work ingame, but the game might not detect it as a wheel but as a gamepad. And gamepads do have huge deadzones, so the car would be driveable
    i5-3350P | Be Quiet! Shadow Rock 2 | MSI B75A-G43 Gaming | MSI HD7870 OC | Kingston HyperX Red 8GB | Kingston SSDNow V300 120GB | WDC Blue 1TB | Corsair VS550 | Fractal-Design Core 3000 | Logitech Driving Force GT

    DiRT2 | DiRT3 CE | DiRT Showdown | DiRT Rally | GRID | GRID2 | GRID Autosport
  • BusterbviBusterbvi Member Wheel Nut
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them

    Busterbvi said:
    OK, I need some clarification, after some though provoking posts here I went in and re-checked my wheel settings in DR, after a closer look, I see that there are wheel settings under ADVANCED GAMEPAD, after much testing, they make no difference to my G25 and my adjustments are not being saved. I see under PRESETS, a Logitec Force is listed (what is that?) but there are no wheel settings there, this is very confusing, where are the wheel settings secretly hidden ?

    Another thing, I am on Version 1.0 according to the opening screen, should Steam be updating me to version 1.2 automatically ?

    Didzis. I meant these comments, anyway I have to assume the drivers are installed, I get a pop up telling me so when I plug the wheel into the USB port on the PC but I will look into that later and maybe manually install them to be sure

     

    Logitec G25. Asus Z87 Pro. HX750 PSU. Win7/64. i7-4770k (stock) + True 120 cooler. 8GB DDR3 RAM @ 1866mhz. 120 GB Force SSD. 1 TB Evo SSD. EVGA GTX 980ti SC.  Asus 32 inch 4K Monitor. 2.1 Sound.  Serving wench & lap dancing facilities.
  • JaZorayJaZoray Member New Car Smell
    Yes, let the steering wheels respond to players's inputs as quickly as he can make them
    is it possible that those  who claim not to notice any steering dampening simply aren't  steering quickly enough to notice the slowness?
«13
Sign In or Register to comment.