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Why it's amazing we even get an F1 Game ever year!!!

HadynHadyn Member New Car Smell
I have seen many people speaking about this and demanding so now I'm going to show the main reason why it is not possible. Aside from the other minor points that do make quite a big difference I may include those at a later date.

For a company as small as Codemasters who have around 400 people working for them compared to a company like EA who have around 9k people working for them if not more, aswell as they have 3rd company companies also working on games for them. Codemasters just have 400 people who do everything for the games, aswell as lets not forget they also have to develop the much loved dirt and grid series of games. They have less than 1 year to develop an f1 game, and have even less time to get the handling as realistic as possible only have maybe 3 months to make large changes to the car, and having to go off predictions that engineers give them, when in realism it could be different however engineers and aero dynamists are very intelligent people so do get it right for the most part. Leading on from this, that is why we do get lack of features and get bugs a lot of time, because they don’t have the time with the staff they have who already work their arses off to get is the best they possibly can which I am very grateful of. I do understand that also EA do make multiple series of games also but they also have years to develop games aswell, whereas Codemasters have around 9 months or less once they start even thinking about the new game. However, from what I understand they started on f1 2017 before f1 2016 even released which is great to here, and that is possibly the reason we get some of these small issues as they again have even less people to check and test the games features again! Say if they started developing the game in July which sounds realistic to me. They probably were developing the base game up until November/December which is near enough half a year. I say this as in the last game they said’ one of our workers spent his whole Christmas developing the formation laps’ which to me sounds like these niche little new features which are very nice to have are not started work on up until this point. Codemasters have life very hard as they have a lot of fans who demand stuff, but have to stick with the guidelines of FOM, and then have to balance that with the fans and the amount of time they have and what they’re workers can do. Aswell as since they are a relatively small business, they don’t really have the power to be able to fight it with FOM!

 

This is why I would also not expect anything in terms of features until f1 2018 or maybe a later patch or even DLC as, they ofcourse are a small company who does not get a massive amount of sales which is why I would except payed DLC from Codemastes however not micro-transactions as I just dislike them in the first place; carrying on from my main point, they can’t just magic up all the new features in 6 months as right now they are working very hard to finalise the handling and also get the teams and cars correct 

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Comments

  • jamieengjamieeng Member New Car Smell
    It rains too much in Career Mode        
  • kraM1tkraM1t Member Pit Crew
    Have you been smelling feces lately? I think I know why..
  • coolieboycoolieboy Member, Drivers Race Steward
    There are still some discrepancies in your argument tough...
    1-CM only has to produce 1 yearly title whereas EA has to produce multiple games each year.  So tbh, 400 people working on 1-2 games is still not bad at all.
    2-CM has specialized in making racing games so in theory they should be the best in the industry
    3-Track layouts do not change that much from year to year so the assets can carry over unless they change the game engine. 
    4-Lets not forget that CM took a year off from the new consoles in 2014 and then give us the worst game made as in F1 2015. To this day I still don't understand why there are passenger airplanes flying over the tracks while the helicopter just stays stagnant.
    5-The MFD should be on the steering wheel of the car...this does not require additional employees...or resources. 

    In order for CM to sell more games I think they need to get out of the generic "simcade" style of racing games and offer two game modes in F1 games, Simulation and Arcade modes.

  • jammie360jammie360 Member Wheel Nut
    So you know how many people are emplyed at codemasters and EA, ok then i beleive you
  • HadynHadyn Member New Car Smell
    Operator1 said:

    What's amazing is how many people vigorously defend games with quality-related issues every year. It's like these people just don't ever want quality games - and they also don't want anyone else speaking up in favor of better quality.

    It's difficult for me to accept claims that game companies don't have the time or the budget to devote to quality when many game companies seem to have offloaded/outsourced much of their testing to paying customers (both pre-&-post launch), their marketing to "games media" & YouTubers & Twitch streamers, their tech support to customers who respond to other customers' inquiries on forums, their documentation to customers who create online guides & tutorials, and their development work to inexpensive contractors. Plus, they re-use the same game engine & many of the same digital assets (sometimes just re-skinned) for years before doing major tech upgrades. I don't see how their budgets & schedules could be stretched so impossibly thin when they crowd-source & recycle so much of their work. Some independent/volunteer/hobbyist modders can even crank out better quality faster than staffed & funded game companies.


    I'm not saying this justifies what codemasters do sometimes. But I think it is completely un-reasonable for people to attack, attack, attack codemasters., they are a very small business as small as 3rd party developers but they are the only people who develop the games aswell, they do all the work by themselves, whereas companies like EA as said have to produce multiple titles a year but also with the large amounts of more people they also have do have not have 3rd paty developers coming in to help them out. 

    But I do not think this justifies some of their major errors, and neither do I think it justifies their activity with the fans and the forums, as I could solely do the job of replying to important posts on the forums with the correct answer, if I had them which they do. Ofcourse Jenny has more then just the forums to manage, so there has to be some understand and she maybe do not do enough, but I have no clue how much her job role consists of so I am no one to speak. I just think it is unfair how people just critisice codemasters for their every move, and never really stop by to say thanks for what you have done in the past (the stuff that was good, ik there isn't much). Instead of just begging and begging for things, and then demanding it has to be there or we on't get it like VR. Like VR isn't even mainstream yet so how the **** are they going to do something massive companies can't really do very well. Aswell as we say they have alot of bugs and stuff, by spending the time to put VR in i think they'll just be more on everything else. Ofc if they do VR and it is successful for f1 2017 I will kms now, but I doubt it very much.
  • Reub09Reub09 Member, Drivers Co-Driver
    edited March 12
    coolieboy said:
    There are still some discrepancies in your argument tough...
    1-CM only has to produce 1 yearly title whereas EA has to produce multiple games each year.  So tbh, 400 people working on 1-2 games is still not bad at all.
    2-CM has specialized in making racing games so in theory they should be the best in the industry
    3-Track layouts do not change that much from year to year so the assets can carry over unless they change the game engine. 
    4-Lets not forget that CM took a year off from the new consoles in 2014 and then give us the worst game made as in F1 2015. To this day I still don't understand why there are passenger airplanes flying over the tracks while the helicopter just stays stagnant.
    5-The MFD should be on the steering wheel of the car...this does not require additional employees...or resources. 

    In order for CM to sell more games I think they need to get out of the generic "simcade" style of racing games and offer two game modes in F1 games, Simulation and Arcade modes.

    There are also discrepancies in your argument because if you did the math then 9000 people on even for example 9 titles is around 1000 people per game depending on what they are focusing on (just using that as a rough example) and that is quite a difference to 600! I thoroughly agree with @Hadyn and although I may have been critical of Codemasters in the past I think maybe we could all ease off a bit.
    | Former F1 TS Hub Driver | PSGL F4 League Red Bull TAG Heuer #15 | PS4 | Irish | Red Bull #3 #33 |
                                                             
                                      

  • kraM1tkraM1t Member Pit Crew
    edited March 12

    I'm not saying this justifies what codemasters do sometimes. But I think it is completely un-reasonable for people to attack, attack, attack codemasters., they are a very small business as small as 3rd party developers but they are the only people who develop the games aswell, they do all the work by themselves, whereas companies like EA as said have to produce multiple titles a year but also with the large amounts of more people they also have do have not have 3rd paty developers coming in to help them out. 

    But I do not think this justifies some of their major errors, and neither do I think it justifies their activity with the fans and the forums, as I could solely do the job of replying to important posts on the forums with the correct answer, if I had them which they do. Ofcourse Jenny has more then just the forums to manage, so there has to be some understand and she maybe do not do enough, but I have no clue how much her job role consists of so I am no one to speak. I just think it is unfair how people just critisice codemasters for their every move, and never really stop by to say thanks for what you have done in the past (the stuff that was good, ik there isn't much). Instead of just begging and begging for things, and then demanding it has to be there or we on't get it like VR. Like VR isn't even mainstream yet so how the **** are they going to do something massive companies can't really do very well. Aswell as we say they have alot of bugs and stuff, by spending the time to put VR in i think they'll just be more on everything else. Ofc if they do VR and it is successful for f1 2017 I will kms now, but I doubt it very much.
    VR is mainstream, it hit mainstream the day it released for PS4. "How are they going to do something massive companies can't do well?"

    Hello? Do you even see Kunos a team of less than 30 people with an almost perfect VR implementation for Oculus and soon Vive too.

    DiRT Rally spring to mind? for both PC and PS4 with VR working perfectly for both, a different branch of Codemasters.

    Please stop licking their arse, you aren't paid for it so just stop.
  • HadynHadyn Member New Car Smell

    VR is mainstream, it hit mainstream the day it released for PS4. "How are they going to do something massive companies can't do well?"

    Hello? Do you even see Kunos a team of less than 30 people with an almost perfect VR implementation for Oculus and soon Vive too.

    DiRT Rally spring to mind? for both PC and PS4 with VR working perfectly for both, a different branch of Codemasters.

    Please stop licking their arse, you aren't paid for it so just stop.
    'The day it released for PS4 and your in all practicality saying I am a codemasters fanboy but what you have done there is become a ps4 fanboy by saying our console lead the way whereas infact pc got it almost 2 years before you. And it is in no way mainstream, it is not used on all devices, it is not in over 80% of households in any country, it is ridiculously priced (if you include the device needed to support it), and not even on every platform on console ffs. Dirt rally has the support as they had years to develop that game, and it's only just coming out now over a year after the games launch.
  • coolieboycoolieboy Member, Drivers Race Steward
    Reub09 said:
    coolieboy said:
    There are still some discrepancies in your argument tough...
    1-CM only has to produce 1 yearly title whereas EA has to produce multiple games each year.  So tbh, 400 people working on 1-2 games is still not bad at all.
    2-CM has specialized in making racing games so in theory they should be the best in the industry
    3-Track layouts do not change that much from year to year so the assets can carry over unless they change the game engine. 
    4-Lets not forget that CM took a year off from the new consoles in 2014 and then give us the worst game made as in F1 2015. To this day I still don't understand why there are passenger airplanes flying over the tracks while the helicopter just stays stagnant.
    5-The MFD should be on the steering wheel of the car...this does not require additional employees...or resources. 

    In order for CM to sell more games I think they need to get out of the generic "simcade" style of racing games and offer two game modes in F1 games, Simulation and Arcade modes.

    There are also discrepancies in your argument because if you did the math then 9000 people on even for example 9 titles is around 1000 people per game depending on what they are focusing on (just using that as a rough example) and that is quite a difference to 600! I thoroughly agree with @Hadyn and although I may have been critical of Codemasters in the past I think maybe we could all ease off a bit.
    So how many people do you think worked on Dirt Rally?I'm pretty sure we can all say that game was spot on and much better than anything EA can produce. The point I'm making is that it's not about the number of people working on the game. 400-600 people is still an impressive workforce for a company that only makes 1 yearly title. Understand that EA supports their games post launch with patches, updates, new content, etc..so that could explain the extra people working on their titles.
  • kraM1tkraM1t Member Pit Crew
    edited March 13
    This guys IQ is below f'ing room temp what the f''k, it's like he doesn't even read what I wrote, I'm out.
  • kevinkirkkevinkirk Member Petrol Head
    edited March 13
    Operator1 said:

    What's amazing is how many people vigorously defend games with quality-related issues every year. It's like these people just don't ever want quality games - and they also don't want anyone else speaking up in favor of better quality.

    It's difficult for me to accept claims that game companies don't have the time or the budget to devote to quality when many game companies seem to have offloaded/outsourced much of their testing to paying customers (both pre-&-post launch), their marketing to "games media" & YouTubers & Twitch streamers, their tech support to customers who respond to other customers' inquiries on forums, their documentation to customers who create online guides & tutorials, and their development work to inexpensive contractors. Plus, they re-use the same game engine & many of the same digital assets (sometimes just re-skinned) for years before doing major tech upgrades. I don't see how their budgets & schedules could be stretched so impossibly thin when they crowd-source & recycle so much of their work. Some independent/volunteer/hobbyist modders can even crank out better quality faster than staffed & funded game companies.


    its not defending codemasters or any game maker. Its understanding the reality of its impossible to make a perfect game without issues. All games that will ever be made, by every company, on every game engine, will have issues. Some of them major and some that simply cant not be fixed in the game. That is set in stone and is something we just have to understand and accept because no company can change that. That's just a side effect from  how these games work and how they do what they do.
    Xbox one, controller
  • Operator1Operator1 Member, Drivers Team Principal
    edited March 13

    kevinkirk said:
    Operator1 said:
    What's amazing is how many people vigorously defend games with quality-related issues every year. It's like these people just don't ever want quality games - and they also don't want anyone else speaking up in favor of better quality.

    It's difficult for me to accept claims that game companies don't have the time or the budget to devote to quality when many game companies seem to have offloaded/outsourced much of their testing to paying customers (both pre-&-post launch), their marketing to "games media" & YouTubers & Twitch streamers, their tech support to customers who respond to other customers' inquiries on forums, their documentation to customers who create online guides & tutorials, and their development work to inexpensive contractors. Plus, they re-use the same game engine & many of the same digital assets (sometimes just re-skinned) for years before doing major tech upgrades. I don't see how their budgets & schedules could be stretched so impossibly thin when they crowd-source & recycle so much of their work. Some independent/volunteer/hobbyist modders can even crank out better quality faster than staffed & funded game companies.
    its not defending codemasters or any game maker. Its understanding the reality of its impossible to make a perfect game without issues. All games that will ever be made, by every company, on every game engine, will have issues. Some of them major and some that simply cant not be fixed in the game. That is set in stone and is something we just have to understand and accept because no company can change that. That's just a side effect from  how these games work and how they do what they do.

    *Sigh*

    Quality ≠ perfection.

    Wanting things to function better does not make someone a perfection-seeker.

    It's surprising how many people often seem to need this simple concept clarified.

    The impossibility of perfection is no excuse for poor quality.



    *Disclaimer: my statements only represent my own musings, not "speaking for others" or "stating opinions as facts."

    forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/03/31/why-buyer-beware-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/
    polygon.com/2014/8/20/6049157/Diablo-3-new-releases-wait-patience
    venturebeat.com/2013/12/10/well-fix-it-later-why-do-gamers-accept-brokenunfinished-products/
    gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-19-buggy-games-deserve-much-harsher-treatment
    eurogamer.net/articles/2015-10-01-new-consumer-rights-act-puts-gamers-in-the-driving-seat
    pretendracecars.net/2017/01/08/why-ive-cut-back-on-sim-racing
    Partially
     functional games should not charge anywhere near full retail price. • If a game is ready to sell, it should be ready to play. • Launch day should not be the start of a public retail beta. • 'Limited resources' & the impossibility of 'perfection' are not justifications for poor quality. • Pre-ordering & buying games at launch is paying for the worst version of the game at its highest price - it'll function better after it's patched, and there are always discount sales later. Why pay full price up-front to be a post-launch beta tester? • As long as people continue buying it, companies will continue selling it. • If we want good quality, we have to stop buying & funding bad quality. #NeverPreOrder

  • kevinkirkkevinkirk Member Petrol Head
    Operator1 said:

    kevinkirk said:
    Operator1 said:
    What's amazing is how many people vigorously defend games with quality-related issues every year. It's like these people just don't ever want quality games - and they also don't want anyone else speaking up in favor of better quality.

    It's difficult for me to accept claims that game companies don't have the time or the budget to devote to quality when many game companies seem to have offloaded/outsourced much of their testing to paying customers (both pre-&-post launch), their marketing to "games media" & YouTubers & Twitch streamers, their tech support to customers who respond to other customers' inquiries on forums, their documentation to customers who create online guides & tutorials, and their development work to inexpensive contractors. Plus, they re-use the same game engine & many of the same digital assets (sometimes just re-skinned) for years before doing major tech upgrades. I don't see how their budgets & schedules could be stretched so impossibly thin when they crowd-source & recycle so much of their work. Some independent/volunteer/hobbyist modders can even crank out better quality faster than staffed & funded game companies.
    its not defending codemasters or any game maker. Its understanding the reality of its impossible to make a perfect game without issues. All games that will ever be made, by every company, on every game engine, will have issues. Some of them major and some that simply cant not be fixed in the game. That is set in stone and is something we just have to understand and accept because no company can change that. That's just a side effect from  how these games work and how they do what they do.

    *Sigh*

    Quality ≠ perfection.

    Wanting things to function better does not make someone a perfection-seeker.

    It's surprising how many people often seem to need this simple concept clarified.

    The impossibility of perfection is no excuse for poor quality.


    that's what you got from that? My one time use of the word perfect?
    Xbox one, controller
  • ChromaticChromatic Member, Drivers Pit Crew
    edited March 18

    There's nothing wrong in wanting a game to be a reasonable standard. Yes there will be bugs but it is critical it doesn't interfere with the core gameplay with has been happening for quite some time.

    It shouldn't give them an excuse to make sup-par game. My best guess is problems within their game engine or glitches that fail to get addressed/ unnoticed before going gold. To counter that the handling with the cars and other features has relativized my enjoyment in the game but the frustration creeps back in with online aspect with cars not being equal in performance after selecting it. (cough Sauber) People being unable to drive in a straight line without spinning out and taking you with them. After both cars have locked into each other. And the lack of a dedicated server. Bugs coupled with the lack of immersion within career mode makes it easier sometimes too purchase the game at a discounted price.   

    How many different racing lines will you take 

    Originally Withyman on the old forum's 

    My YouTube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/TBCFormulae 

    Manor may be gone but the history they made lives on

  • peterf1peterf1 Member Unleaded
    VR might be a new thing, but look around is not, I was doing that in 2000 with European Air Wars.
    TrackIR (which is just an input for look around) is not new. (it just occurred to me that one should be able to use TrackIR to look left, look right, which is not panning, but an improvemnt).
    Codemasters is a corporation, corporations are secretive, so we don't know and never will know what goes on, how they go about their business, what their priorities are.
    As critics we can be fair, but to be lenient is to ask for a lesser experience.
    They do not produce a detailed manual for this game... what does that tell us?
  • coolieboycoolieboy Member, Drivers Race Steward
    I would never expect a detailed manual from CM as their F1 games are quite "dumb" down and tend to be more biased towards arcade rather than simcade. 
  • tone1492tone1492 Member New Car Smell
    I'm gonna chime in here the same way I did in a similar thread. If you are not happy with the overall direction of a game series just stop buying it. I'm not being a jerk at all because this comes down to simple economics. If a retailer or manufacturer creates a product and consumers are unhappy with it they can just stop buying it. The retailer/ manufacturer then has two options; improve the product or just stop producing it. This ain't rocket science this is still the shallow end of the pool here guys.

    You can still voice your opinions about the things you like and dislike about this game or any product but the only opinions that truly matter at the end of the day are pieces of paper with numbers and famous ppl's faces on it
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