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[DiRT 4] Constructive feedback on the subject of car-feel and physics: The Ultimate Thread

chukonuchukonu Member Wheel Nut
There are a couple of separate threads floating about and nothing to bring it all together. A lot of replies contain either rage or love and the feedback itself gets buried under the tone of the message. Let us try to keep this one clean, and help Codemasters attack perceived problems with the physics model in DiRT 4.

Please state your platform/controller/settings as well.

PC/X360 Gamepad/Simulation Mode with all assists off
I have almost 600 hours in DiRT Rally and 11 hours in DiRT 4.

My main issue with the car-feel in DiRT 4 is the lack of translation to the gamepad. In DiRT Rally I could always feel the tyres move around, feel the car shifting weight. I cannot say exactly what has changed, but for one there seems to be no indication when you lock a wheel on gravel, understeer does not seem to trigger any vibration either, there is not even a visual indication. I'm also now unable to predict when the back is going to overtake the front or when I held the car instead. I just cannot feel it move around as much as I did in DiRT Rally. Either way, I find the feel of the cars very floaty on gravel, particularly the AWD/FWD cars. In DiRT Rally you could really feel the tyres dig into the gravel and even when you go straight it felt like the rear wheels were nicely dug in, ready to break out if you turn too unexpectedly.

Another issue I found is that wheelspin seems to have disappeared entirely when exiting a corner, it's almost like I am driving with traction control or something like that on. This problem is much less noticeable in the DiRTFish area.

Thirdly, for some reason I cannot 'save' a mistake anymore. When I am at high speed and the car turns slightly the wrong direction and I try to save it by quickly pulling it straight it just goes the other way and I still have no control, I am not sure what causes this to happen. Perhaps it is just the fact that I cannot feel the wheels on the ground and I am pulling too hard because of that.
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Comments

  • SamRWDSamRWD Member Petrol Head
    edited June 10
    ShodanCat said:
    Honestly there should be a separate thread between gamepad users and wheel users.
    Agreed 100%
    EDIT: BTW Rallycross phsics seem to be fine. Lots of inertia, can throw car into the corner high speed and powerslide. Not such thing in rally...
  • chukonuchukonu Member Wheel Nut
    Do not see why you need a separate thread, you can easily state what you are using and what you are experiencing in this thread. We're not trying to come to a consensus here, just giving Codemasters feedback that they can work with.
  • breyzippbreyzipp Member New Car Smell
    I play on XBox One with an elite controller and I find the steering with the controller way too twitchy.  If I want to make small corrections with a swift tab the game ends up overcompensating which then results in me correcting that in the opposite direction which gets worse again and as such the car ends up "oscillating" and lands in the barrier.  That is even with the most modern rallycars, for example that Hyundai i20 on the Founder's Invitational event.

    Is there a way to make it less twitchy?  In the Forza games the "tick tick tack tack" steering with the controller works brilliantly.  I would love to see something similar here in Dirt 4.  Perhaps a "level of input filtering" value from 0 to 5 where people who don't want it leave it at 0 and the game behaves the way it currently does.
  • WhiteWagonWhiteWagon Member Co-Driver
    Have you messed with Steering linearity, deadzone and stuff @breyzipp ?
    It can really help.
  • breyzippbreyzipp Member New Car Smell
    Have you messed with Steering linearity, deadzone and stuff @breyzipp ?
    It can really help.
    No I haven't touched anything yet, usually setting every deadzone to 0 is better (to get a wider range of input) but they were already at 0.  But that doesn't solve my problem, for "tick tick tack tack" steering there should be some filtering on the input.

    But if you have some suggestions of changes to make I'm all ears.
  • SkiddyMcCrashSkiddyMcCrash Member Champion
    The setting you are looking for is Linearity, it adjusts steering input based on your speed

    AMD FX-8350@4.5Ghz/EVGA GTX 970 SC ACX 2/16gb RAM/OS - Win 10/Turtle Beach X11/360pad                                 View - Front Bumper Cam/No Assists



  • boganibogani Member Champion
    chukonu said:
    There are a couple of separate threads floating about and nothing to bring it all together. A lot of replies contain either rage or love and the feedback itself gets buried under the tone of the message. Let us try to keep this one clean, and help Codemasters attack perceived problems with the physics model in DiRT 4.

    Please state your platform/controller/settings as well.

    PC/X360 Gamepad/Simulation Mode with all assists off
    I have almost 600 hours in DiRT Rally and 11 hours in DiRT 4.

    My main issue with the car-feel in DiRT 4 is the lack of translation to the gamepad. In DiRT Rally I could always feel the tyres move around, feel the car shifting weight. I cannot say exactly what has changed, but for one there seems to be no indication when you lock a wheel on gravel, understeer does not seem to trigger any vibration either, there is not even a visual indication. I'm also now unable to predict when the back is going to overtake the front or when I held the car instead. I just cannot feel it move around as much as I did in DiRT Rally. Either way, I find the feel of the cars very floaty on gravel, particularly the AWD/FWD cars. In DiRT Rally you could really feel the tyres dig into the gravel and even when you go straight it felt like the rear wheels were nicely dug in, ready to break out if you turn too unexpectedly.

    Another issue I found is that wheelspin seems to have disappeared entirely when exiting a corner, it's almost like I am driving with traction control or something like that on. This problem is much less noticeable in the DiRTFish area.

    Thirdly, for some reason I cannot 'save' a mistake anymore. When I am at high speed and the car turns slightly the wrong direction and I try to save it by quickly pulling it straight it just goes the other way and I still have no control, I am not sure what causes this to happen. Perhaps it is just the fact that I cannot feel the wheels on the ground and I am pulling too hard because of that.
    The thing about cars being hard to save at speed is one thing I actually like. In DR you could save the car when it really should send you off the road.

    What is a bummer is the insta spins while you put on tire on the grass.

    "I had the biggest moose problem in my whole life I think"

    "Was it on the side of the road?"

    "Huh?"

    "The moose"

    "The mousse in the tire"

  • Alf72Alf72 Member Co-Driver
    edited June 10
    breyzipp said:
    I play on XBox One with an elite controller and I find the steering with the controller way too twitchy.  If I want to make small corrections with a swift tab the game ends up overcompensating which then results in me correcting that in the opposite direction which gets worse again and as such the car ends up "oscillating" and lands in the barrier.  That is even with the most modern rallycars, for example that Hyundai i20 on the Founder's Invitational event.

    Is there a way to make it less twitchy? 


    If is too twitchy, increase Linearity, but don't go overboard. +10 might be too much. Increase by small amounts till you find the sweet spot, for you.

    Positive Linearity = Car changes direction / reacts slower, to small inputs / corrections

    Negative Linearity = Car changes direction / reacts faster, to small inputs / corrections

    CMR | DiRT | DiRT 2 | DiRT 3 | DiRT Showdown | DiRT Rally | DiRT 4 | GRID | GRID 2 | GRID AutoSport | F1 2013

    Wheel - G27 | Pedals - G27 w/ Nixim Springs | Shifter - G27 | Handbrake - Extreme 3D Pro

    " Good drivers have dead flies on the side windows " - Walter Rohrl

  • WeamDreaverWeamDreaver Member Pit Crew
    I am using the xbox-one controller with sensitivity at 100 and linearity at 5. I can be very precise in driving WRX supercars on rallycross or Hyundai R5 on the academy playground. But as soon as I am driving the i20 in rally mode on tarmac, it feels just floaty and not planted.

  • breyzippbreyzipp Member New Car Smell
    edited June 10
    Hmm I'm not sure what I was smoking but deadzone was standard not at 0 and I now found the settings for sensitivity and linearity as well.  I feel a bit embarrassed, must be the effect of playing until 5 AM on launch night lol.  Thanks for the tips guys!!! :)

    I took my Pro-2 trophy truck (where I was struggling with to keep under control) to DirtFish academy to freeroam and mess a bit with the settings.  By the way I use the XBox Elite Controller with all assists off.

    SENSITIVITY - You feel the difference between 0 and 100 very much.  Default it's at 50 and I now reduced it to 40.
    LINEARITY - Going from 0 to 10 I don't feel the difference as much as with sensitivity to be honest.  Default it was at 4, I put it at 5 for now.
    STEERING DEADZONE - Was at 20, I put it at 0.  Might switch it back to 5 or 10 if needed.  I think this is only center deadzone as there seemed to be something different for max input.

    Will give this a try and adjust further if needed.  Will give the cross-kart and the stadium buggy a try again as well and see how that goes.

    I'm sure this will help me out for a bit and got something to play with, thanks again!

    BTW not sure how it works in Forza but over there the sensitivity is not static but dynamic, the higher speed your vehicle has, the less effect your steering input will have.  I really like that as it keeps the cars better planted on the road at high speeds.  Or in other words, you get to use your full input range to make minimal steering adjustments and that is exactly what I was missing here.  But with the new settings it should be better already too.
  • ExplodeTheApexExplodeTheApex Member New Car Smell
    I'm using the Thrustmaster T150 on PS4 and the steering generally feels a tad heavy and numb. I've re-calibrated the wheel, but does anyone have any good T150 settings? Also I seem to find it hard to get the car sliding initially but then hard to catch once it does slide.
  • breyzippbreyzipp Member New Car Smell
    I am using the xbox-one controller with sensitivity at 100 and linearity at 5. I can be very precise in driving WRX supercars on rallycross or Hyundai R5 on the academy playground. But as soon as I am driving the i20 in rally mode on tarmac, it feels just floaty and not planted.

    You know what, I think I have more or less the same issue.  Even before I adjusted any settings I was doing really well with rallycross cars (Super1600, RX2, group B RX, WRX supercars) but apart from the Fiesta R2 in Michigan I seem to be having trouble doing normal rally stages. I did that Hyundai i20 Founder's Invitational and the car was quite floaty at high speeds in Spain.  Yesterday trying the EVO VI in Australia was a disaster too.  But it might be due to me not getting used to the vehicles though since I'm swapping around between rally cars, rallycross cars, group B, trophy trucks, cross karts and what not way too fast.  Everything is new in the game so I wanna try it all at once, lol. :)

    100 sensitivity for sure is not my thing. :)
  • SamRWDSamRWD Member Petrol Head
    @KickUp
    Hi! I just watched the stream you were asking for construtcive feedback, and I have an idea. Here is a link you can contact a guy who did NGP plugin for RBR- I understand he himself doesn't hold any authority, but he has a lot of connections with RL rally drivers that were reviewing his work (some of them are active on German rally forum he is active on). I am sure he could help with getting RL drivers onboard for testing and reviewing.
    http://www.racedepartment.com/members/workerbee.48709/

    If there is anything else we can do to help the situation, please let me know! Thanks!
  • breyzippbreyzipp Member New Car Smell
    edited June 10
    Just went back to my miserable race, from career mode the Pro-2 race in Baja (1st one from Pro-2 trucks).  I don't think the problem has much to do with steering settings, for some reason this car on this track in these weather conditions is just absolute garbage.  You can be as careful as you can with steering inputs and gas inputs, that thing doesn't have the fysics of a heavy truck on 4 wheels, it has the fysics engine of a friggin' boat sliding through water.  The other 3 races from the same career no problem to win there, the wet races are actually a lot easier for some reason.  But that 1st Baja race is garbage.

    I've seen other reports of people saying cars behave different at the DirtFish academy compared to rally stages, I guess it's the same here.

    Seems inconsistency is the key word for Dirt 4, inconsistent handling, inconsistent pace notes, inconsistent AI difficulty.  Codemasters sure has some things to fix next week.
  • WeamDreaverWeamDreaver Member Pit Crew
    breyzipp said:

    100 sensitivity for sure is not my thing. :)
    Usually not my thing either.
    But I tested a lot over the weekend, and so far it is the only way to be able to make quick corrections, at least with the AWD and RWD cars. For FWD cars it is too twitchy for me too.

    Getting the right combination of sensitivity and linearity is cruical for car control with a controller.
    But I am still not sure to keep that setting. What are you using?
  • breyzippbreyzipp Member New Car Smell
    breyzipp said:

    100 sensitivity for sure is not my thing. :)
    Usually not my thing either.
    But I tested a lot over the weekend, and so far it is the only way to be able to make quick corrections, at least with the AWD and RWD cars. For FWD cars it is too twitchy for me too.

    Getting the right combination of sensitivity and linearity is cruical for car control with a controller.
    But I am still not sure to keep that setting. What are you using?
    I went back from 40 sensitivity, 5 linearity and 0 deadzone to purely default settings.  It seems to work better for the modern RX cars.  I think I do need fast steeing input there.  But its far from optimal,  On one side I need fast impulses and response but on the other side the cars seem to respond to much to my steering input.  Something for sure is really awkward with this entire handling model.  When a car is at low speed you can almost steer around your center point.  It feels very unrealistic, as being able to almost do donuts but purely from steering, not with any gas input.
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