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2017 Snapchat British Grand Prix

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  • MexicolaMexicola Member Race Engineer
    edited July 17
    You're probably right. Ferrari have been historically awful at developing a car over a season.

    Gwan Bottas!
  • AMS97KRRAMS97KRR Member Race Engineer
    Hughesy said:
    AMS97KRR said:
    Love watching a good domination, great for the sport.

    Edit: Can't believe Raikkonens luck either, he had even fresher tyres than Vettel and his went first... To be honest after that Ferrari should have just pitted Vettel, it was a massive risk to leave him out and it backfired. Shame Bottas had that penalty as I'd like to have seen an actual battle at the front, nobody to blame for that but Ferrari and the lack of pace and a gearbox. I just hope this isn't the end of the title battle, because if it is, F1 is just ******. No way can we have Mercedes running off with it again. 
    So when Schumacher dominated the sport was F1 ******? Or when Williams, McLaren or Red Bull? It happens a lot more than people seem to remember. The only way you stop that is by having cars that are all the same. If they equalise the engines then one team will do better in the aero department. Ferrari have had a few poor races, but I have no doubt they will have good races.
    Luckily I didn't have to experience the Schumi domination ;)

    The Red Bull years were not as bad as the last 3 by a long shot. We had something like 7 races out of the last 3 years (Probably like 57-60 races) which were not won by a Merc. 

    I don't know how you'd stop domination aside from a performance ballast and keep different cars. Is that good or not? It's sort of unfair on the team that builds the good car, but at the end of the day the sport has to entertain people.
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  • AMS97KRRAMS97KRR Member Race Engineer
    Some of you guys are way too quick in writing Ferrari off. Also, F1 didn't need Vettel dominating the 2nd half of 2013, but he did. And guess what: The sport survived, even though many, many people had enough of seeing the same guy and the same team win over and over again. It happens, and if it happens to be a team/driver you don't support, you just have to grit your teeth and get through it. I had to, many others had to. That's life.
    Considering how Ferrari dropped the ball for the past 8 seasons, I don't think I am. The thing is, they bring upgrade after upgrade and if anything, it looks like the Merc is looking better after every round so far, so not exactly encouraging signs there.

    As for the 2013 domination of Seb, you can blame Pirelli for that, let's not forget that. They switched the tyre compounds and boom, Seb went on an almost disgusting win streak.

    Another problem is, who is going to stop Mercedes if they walk away with it again? Red Bull was stopped by a regulation change, as was Ferrari, as was pretty much every dominating team. We already had a big regulation change, what's next then?
    There isn't going to be one for some time, simply because it would ruin the smaller teams, and the soonest we could see a new engine is 2020. And yes, we got rid of the stupid token system, that was good, but Renault and Honda still seem to lag behind. And even Ferrari still seem to have a big deficit to Mercedes. In other words, we could see 3 more seasons of Merc domination.

    Doesn't sound too sexy to me.
    Then again, you can't penalize Mercedes for having done a better job yet again, despite new regulations. These new regulations were meant to give teams like RB a better chance of catching Mercedes. I remember how much they were looking forward to it, and now look at the gap to the silver arrows. Mercedes are just too damn good, whatever the rules are. And therefore it's no wonder they're winning so many races. It's not their fault Red Bull have been disappointing so far this season and it's not their fault Ferrari are once again losing out in the development race (although as I've said before, don't count them out just yet).
    Unfair to punish them for sure. But I fear another 3 years of Merc domination will really hurt the sport, so I think something would have to be done, Hamilton will end up dominating every weekend, we wont even have Rosberg there to keep him honest.
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  • RevolvingPrawnRevolvingPrawn Member Champion
    AMS97KRR said:
    Hughesy said:
    AMS97KRR said:
    Love watching a good domination, great for the sport.

    Edit: Can't believe Raikkonens luck either, he had even fresher tyres than Vettel and his went first... To be honest after that Ferrari should have just pitted Vettel, it was a massive risk to leave him out and it backfired. Shame Bottas had that penalty as I'd like to have seen an actual battle at the front, nobody to blame for that but Ferrari and the lack of pace and a gearbox. I just hope this isn't the end of the title battle, because if it is, F1 is just ******. No way can we have Mercedes running off with it again. 
    So when Schumacher dominated the sport was F1 ******? Or when Williams, McLaren or Red Bull? It happens a lot more than people seem to remember. The only way you stop that is by having cars that are all the same. If they equalise the engines then one team will do better in the aero department. Ferrari have had a few poor races, but I have no doubt they will have good races.
    Luckily I didn't have to experience the Schumi domination ;)

    The Red Bull years were not as bad as the last 3 by a long shot. We had something like 7 races out of the last 3 years (Probably like 57-60 races) which were not won by a Merc. 

    I don't know how you'd stop domination aside from a performance ballast and keep different cars. Is that good or not? It's sort of unfair on the team that builds the good car, but at the end of the day the sport has to entertain people.
    It's 12 races ;) Also, if you weren't a Vettel fan, those Red Bull years were **** excrutiating. It's nice for me to see my favourite driver winning more often than not, when during those 4 seasons a driver I didn't like won more often than not. You're now feeling what people who didn't like Red Bull felt during those 4 years mate, so suck it up. It won't last forever.
  • GoldenColtGoldenColt Member Team Principal
    edited July 17
    People already talking about 3 years of further domination even though Vettel's still leading the WDC and there are 10 races to come. It's been two weeks since Vettel lost out on pole by fluffing the last corner and finished less than a second behind race leader Bottas. You folks remind me of this:
    https://media.giphy.com/media/HUkOv6BNWc1HO/giphy.gif

    Tone it down a notch, will you? Jeezus...


  • ImDyingYouIdiotImDyingYouIdiot Member, Drivers Champion
    AMS97KRR said:
    Hughesy said:
    AMS97KRR said:
    Love watching a good domination, great for the sport.

    Edit: Can't believe Raikkonens luck either, he had even fresher tyres than Vettel and his went first... To be honest after that Ferrari should have just pitted Vettel, it was a massive risk to leave him out and it backfired. Shame Bottas had that penalty as I'd like to have seen an actual battle at the front, nobody to blame for that but Ferrari and the lack of pace and a gearbox. I just hope this isn't the end of the title battle, because if it is, F1 is just ******. No way can we have Mercedes running off with it again. 
    So when Schumacher dominated the sport was F1 ******? Or when Williams, McLaren or Red Bull? It happens a lot more than people seem to remember. The only way you stop that is by having cars that are all the same. If they equalise the engines then one team will do better in the aero department. Ferrari have had a few poor races, but I have no doubt they will have good races.
    Luckily I didn't have to experience the Schumi domination ;)

    The Red Bull years were not as bad as the last 3 by a long shot. We had something like 7 races out of the last 3 years (Probably like 57-60 races) which were not won by a Merc. 

    I don't know how you'd stop domination aside from a performance ballast and keep different cars. Is that good or not? It's sort of unfair on the team that builds the good car, but at the end of the day the sport has to entertain people.
    It's 12 races ;) Also, if you weren't a Vettel fan, those Red Bull years were **** excrutiating. It's nice for me to see my favourite driver winning more often than not, when during those 4 seasons a driver I didn't like won more often than not. You're now feeling what people who didn't like Red Bull felt during those 4 years mate, so suck it up. It won't last forever.
    Still a bit unfair to compare the Merc to the Red Bull domination.

    2010:  Red Bull had the best qualifying pace, but were unable to convert their great pace into victories. 4 drivers from 3 different teams had the chance to take it home.
    2011: Yeeeah, OK. That was a one-man show. Cars were pretty, though.
    2012: Exciting first half of the season. Stunning title fight between Fernando and Seb. McLaren could/should have taken this. But, unfortunately, that was right around the time they started to sh*t the bed. Also, the Red Bull's only started to dominate around Singapore.
    2013: First half was ok-ish. Red Bull looked strong, but definitely not unbeatable. That is until Pirelli changed the tyre compounds. Smooth sailing for Seb. If anything blame Pirelli. Also, McLaren could have capitalised on their strong package from 2012, but guess what they did. Exactly. They sh*t the bed.
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  • RevolvingPrawnRevolvingPrawn Member Champion
    Yea, I did watch those season, don't need a reminder bud ;) Fact is, Red Bull still won far more races than any other teams during those years, and for a non-Red Bull fan it was painful.

    The way I kinda prefer to look at it though in terms of Red Bull's races is this.

    2010: 9 wins out of 19 races. 12 races which had a Red Bull car anywhere on the podium, 7 of which were 2 cars on the podium, and 4 of those were a 1-2.

    2011: 12 wins out of 19 races. At least 1 Car on the podium in 18 of 19 races. 9 times they had 2 cars on the podium, and 3 of those were 1-2's.

    2012: 7 wins out of 20 races. 11 podiums of 20 with a Red Bull car on it. only 3 double car podiums, and only a single 1-2. Definitely a weaker year, but heart-braking how Toro Rosso and Schumi gifted Vettel places at the end.

    2013: 13 wins of 19 races. 16 podiums with at least 1 Red Bull car. 7 double podiums, 4 of which were a 1-2.

    So while Red Bull were less dominant than Merc have been, they were still dominant, and saying that 2010-13 were more entertaining because of that isn't true for people who weren't Red Bull fans. And don't forget, Vettel often just disappeared off and won with a massive margin. At least Merc have had 2 drivers who were capable of fighting for the win quite often.
  • ImDyingYouIdiotImDyingYouIdiot Member, Drivers Champion
    2010 and 2012 were most definitely more entertaining than any of the years from 2014 until now. We had a title fight between multiple drivers from multiple teams. '11 and '13 were boring, I'll grant you that.

    And thank god we Lewis had a strong driver in the second car, otherwise I would have gone mad already. But I can't help but feel like Bottas isn't cut out to challenge him like Rosberg. He's decent. Not more than that, though, I'm afraid.


    Ultimately, I'm just annoyed at the prospect of another year for the silver arrows. I wasn't keen on Red Bull dominating, and I'm not on Mercedes keeping up their form. Funnily enough, my two least favourite teams have dominated the sport for the past 7 years. In other words: kill me. Or at least buy me a beer.
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  • MBKF1MBKF1 Member Moderator
    Looking back, I honestly didn't mind the Red Bull winning period that much. 2010, and in particular 2012, are two of my favourite seasons ever. And even 2011 wasn't that bad, with some brilliant races dotted in throughout the Vettel domination (China, Canada, Hungary, Germany, Suzuka).  The only bits I didn't really enjoy were the start of 2011 and the end of 2013. Seriously, I can't remember anything exciting about those final 9 races.

    But despite being even more dominant than Red Bull, I preferred the Mercedes years of 2014-2016. I think RevolvingPrawn said it all really. In 2011 and 2013, Vettel was in a class of his own and had zero challenges from his team mate or anyone else, so it got boring. At least Hamilton and Rosberg were pretty much neck and neck for their time together, minus perhaps mid-late 2015 when Rosberg just disappeared.

    I do think Mercedes will walk away with this championship though, with Hamilton and Bottas finishing ahead of Vettel. I just hope Valtteri can keep up his great form and actually challenge Lewis for good. What a nice surprise it would be if Valtteri can actually have a proper crack at the title at the end of the year. No one would've expected that after the first few races.
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  • AMS97KRRAMS97KRR Member Race Engineer
    edited July 18
    AMS97KRR said:
    Hughesy said:
    AMS97KRR said:
    Love watching a good domination, great for the sport.

    Edit: Can't believe Raikkonens luck either, he had even fresher tyres than Vettel and his went first... To be honest after that Ferrari should have just pitted Vettel, it was a massive risk to leave him out and it backfired. Shame Bottas had that penalty as I'd like to have seen an actual battle at the front, nobody to blame for that but Ferrari and the lack of pace and a gearbox. I just hope this isn't the end of the title battle, because if it is, F1 is just ******. No way can we have Mercedes running off with it again. 
    So when Schumacher dominated the sport was F1 ******? Or when Williams, McLaren or Red Bull? It happens a lot more than people seem to remember. The only way you stop that is by having cars that are all the same. If they equalise the engines then one team will do better in the aero department. Ferrari have had a few poor races, but I have no doubt they will have good races.
    Luckily I didn't have to experience the Schumi domination ;)

    The Red Bull years were not as bad as the last 3 by a long shot. We had something like 7 races out of the last 3 years (Probably like 57-60 races) which were not won by a Merc. 

    I don't know how you'd stop domination aside from a performance ballast and keep different cars. Is that good or not? It's sort of unfair on the team that builds the good car, but at the end of the day the sport has to entertain people.
    It's 12 races ;) Also, if you weren't a Vettel fan, those Red Bull years were **** excrutiating. It's nice for me to see my favourite driver winning more often than not, when during those 4 seasons a driver I didn't like won more often than not. You're now feeling what people who didn't like Red Bull felt during those 4 years mate, so suck it up. It won't last forever.
    Speaking to not just you prawn but others in the thread too:
     
    The last 3 years (2014-2016) saw 8 non Mercedes wins, 3 for Vettel, 4 for Ricciardo and 1 for Verstappen. That in total means that 51 of 59 Grand Prix's were won by Mercedes. Out of those 51, Lewis Hamilton won 31 races. Nico Rosberg won 20. Mercedes won 86% of the races, Hamilton with 52.5% of the wins in that time and Nico with 33.8%. 

    Now, lets look at 2010-2013. In that period, 77 races took place. Red Bull won 41 of those races (53%), which is obviously a massive difference to the 86% Mercedes achieved. In those 4 years, 2 of them were considered some of the best years in the entire history of the sport, especially 2012. I think the key difference that makes people think it is worse than it really was is that Vettel took all but 6 of the RBR race wins, which is 85%. So every time a RBR won, you can bet your money that it was Vettel who took it. But in reality, there is little room to complain about the period like it was a horrible domination because it really wasn't. I'd wager it was one of the most openly contested 4 years of the sport compared to other periods of "domination". And even as a Vettel fan I can admit that the second half of 2013 was a write off in terms of actual excitement and 2011 whilst it had some very fun races and lots of exciting goings on at times, it was on the whole a fairly boring season title fight wise. But the stats show us that actually there was a lot of other good moments where others won in those years. In the last 3 years you're mainly looking back at battles for 3rd downwards, which whilst fun to watch, doesn't mean as much as winning.

    I think a lot of it stems from the fact that, as I said, Vettel just dominated his team mate and ended up winning 45% of the races (Statistically, it was in fact not "more often than not") in 4 years - that is a lower percentage than Hamilton in the last 3. You were more sick of seeing Vettel win rather than Red Bull. In the case of the last 3 years, people were just sick of Mercedes winning every race, I didn't become happier when Rosberg ran away with it, and I don't even dislike Nico. It's just boring to watch 59 races and have 51 be won by the same two people. in 2014 we had only 3 race winners, in 2015 it was 3 and in 2016 it was 4. In 2010 we had 5 winners (And Massa really should have been added to that list but whatever), 2011 we had 5, 2012 we had 8 winners and 2013 saw 5 victors. And even in 2011 3 of the 5 winners won 3 or more races each, so it wasn't just luck. 

    The stats don't lie for me, 2010-2013 was just far better than 2014-2016 and I believe if most people were asked as a neutral which one they'd rather sit through again, it would be 2010-2013. Because the 2010 and 2012 seasons alone are worth it, and that's missing some great races from 2011.
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  • RevolvingPrawnRevolvingPrawn Member Champion
    Dude, you liked RBR and Vettel, so of course you'll see it differently. For those of us who didn't, it felt like he won every other race. Which if he won 45% of the races is damn close to being true.

    And if RBR won 53% of the races during that time, that is still domination. Less so than Merc, but still domination. Do you know what the percentage for the other teams are? Like what percentage did Ferrari and McLaren win during those seasons?

    And personally, I'd rather watch 14-16 again over 10-13. 2012 was a very good season, but seeing Vettel just erode Alonso's (who was in the 3rd best car) points lead in the last part of the season was depressing. And then being gifted positions in the final race after the collision he caused at the start sucked complete ass. I'll never watch Brazil 2012 ever again.

    Really trhough man, this is all just a matter of perspective, which I guess we've already established. People who like Vettel and RBR enjoyed 10-13. People who like Hamilton and Merc have enjoyed 14-16. Simple as that really, stats or no stats.
  • GoldenColtGoldenColt Member Team Principal
    edited July 18
    We had a championship going down to the wire in both 2014 and 2016, I'd say that alone makes 2011 and 2013 look worse. There was no designated #2 driver at Mercedes during their era of domination, which meant the other guy had a fair shot at winning the title. Sure, the fact that Rosberg has been much more competitive against Lewis than Webber has ever been against Vettel helped this matter.

    But we'll have to agree to disagree at this point.
    Post edited by GoldenColt on
  • AMS97KRRAMS97KRR Member Race Engineer
    Dude, you liked RBR and Vettel, so of course you'll see it differently. For those of us who didn't, it felt like he won every other race. Which if he won 45% of the races is damn close to being true.

    And if RBR won 53% of the races during that time, that is still domination. Less so than Merc, but still domination. Do you know what the percentage for the other teams are? Like what percentage did Ferrari and McLaren win during those seasons?

    And personally, I'd rather watch 14-16 again over 10-13. 2012 was a very good season, but seeing Vettel just erode Alonso's (who was in the 3rd best car) points lead in the last part of the season was depressing. And then being gifted positions in the final race after the collision he caused at the start sucked complete ass. I'll never watch Brazil 2012 ever again.

    Really trhough man, this is all just a matter of perspective, which I guess we've already established. People who like Vettel and RBR enjoyed 10-13. People who like Hamilton and Merc have enjoyed 14-16. Simple as that really, stats or no stats.
    Sure, but equally Hamilton has won over half the races in the last 3 years so it is also understandable that most people are sick of that. Vettel won 45% yeah, I think its important to remember that the end of 2013 contributes a lot to that figure. If you take that spell out it and decide not to watch it again, it would only be 24 wins for Vettel from 68 races (He won 9 on the trot at the end), so only 35% if you just wanted to enjoy the rest of the years in that period. Alonso won 10 times in that period, Hamilton 10 as well, so you could find something to cheer about! Point being, up until Hungary 2013 nobody could really say Vettel won every other race, it might have felt like it, but it wasn't the case. With the last 3 years and Lewis, it really is reality.

    Stats wise, McLaren won 18 races in 2010-2013.  Ferrari won 11, Mercedes won 4, Lotus got 3, Williams got 1. Individually it looks bad, but that is still 47% of the races, an I'm sure you didn't mind those races that RBR didn't win, heck I'd even say you and others didn't mind Webber winning.
    Most people would say Brazil 2012 was one of the best races in history :p I understand why you don't like watching it completely however. He did only get gifted one position tbf, and he'd already climbed into the WDC position anyway.

    Yeah of course we are all going to have preferences. I just think neutrals would prefer to watch 2010-2013 because of the variety. I bet there are some races in 2010-2013 you could watch again and think "Who won this race?" where as the last 3 years you can just know it was a Mercedes. I can remember the races they didn't win off by heart, but I couldn't tell you all the races Seb didn't win. 
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  • RevolvingPrawnRevolvingPrawn Member Champion
    But the 9 wins is part of 10-13, so you can't take those out of the equation :p Try as you might to prove otherwise, Vettel winning so frequently got boring for people who didn't like him. And that's just that dude. It's the same for people who don't like Hamilton, it's the same for people who didn't like Schumi, it was the same for people who didn't like Mansell, Senna, Prost, Etc...

    And that's reality to you. To a Lewis fan, it feels like Rosberg took a fair few victories from him, and like Hamilton hasn't won enough yet ;) I'm sure you feel the same way about Vettel.

    I thought Canada 2011 was the best race in history? Brazil was pretty decent, for the most part, and I could understand why Vettel fans would think it's one of the best. Personally I think Brazil 2008 was better ;) Also Vergne and Schumi moved out of his way. Gifted 2 places mate. Before that he was 9th and Alonso would have been WDC. Or maybe 4 if you consider that Hulk took himself and Hamilton out of 1st and 2nd lol.

    I think neutrals would prefer to watch 2006-2009, cos those 4 seasons had 4 different champions and really were a variety. Your favourite driver won 10-13 so you naturally have a preference for those seasons. And you underestimate my useless power of remembering who won at which race to your peril, good sir! :p
  • AMS97KRRAMS97KRR Member Race Engineer
    But the 9 wins is part of 10-13, so you can't take those out of the equation :p Try as you might to prove otherwise, Vettel winning so frequently got boring for people who didn't like him. And that's just that dude. It's the same for people who don't like Hamilton, it's the same for people who didn't like Schumi, it was the same for people who didn't like Mansell, Senna, Prost, Etc...

    And that's reality to you. To a Lewis fan, it feels like Rosberg took a fair few victories from him, and like Hamilton hasn't won enough yet ;) I'm sure you feel the same way about Vettel.

    I thought Canada 2011 was the best race in history? Brazil was pretty decent, for the most part, and I could understand why Vettel fans would think it's one of the best. Personally I think Brazil 2008 was better ;) Also Vergne and Schumi moved out of his way. Gifted 2 places mate. Before that he was 9th and Alonso would have been WDC. Or maybe 4 if you consider that Hulk took himself and Hamilton out of 1st and 2nd lol.

    I think neutrals would prefer to watch 2006-2009, cos those 4 seasons had 4 different champions and really were a variety. Your favourite driver won 10-13 so you naturally have a preference for those seasons. And you underestimate my useless power of remembering who won at which race to your peril, good sir! :p
    Course, but you see what I was saying I hope ;)

    A lot of people rate Brazil very highly, I was surprised how many people said it was the best online. All opinion of course but it was one of the best season finales ever. Vergne would have been easy pickings anyway!

    I don't disagree with that statement, 2006-2009 was a great time to watch F1. I can remember things quite well in relation to F1 but honestly I'd struggle to go through all the winners from like 6 years ago  :D I'd be impressed if anyone could. Maybe it's just a season by season thing. I reckon I could do a good job on 2010 and 2012 but 2011 is sort of a blur, along with 2013. 
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  • ImDyingYouIdiotImDyingYouIdiot Member, Drivers Champion
    edited July 19
    All this number crunching proves one thing, though. Objectively, I repeat, objectively(!) the Merc domination was way worse than the Red Bull one. In fact, it has been the greatest domination of any team this sport has ever seen. And you can't argue against that since the numbers prove it. The only team coming close to those number is McLaren, but that's about it.

    I also find it funny how Seb gets bad rep for Brazil 2012. Schumi and Red Bull helped him? Yeah, they did. But Nando got help from Massa. Multiple times throughout the season. Remember that unnecessary gearbox change in Austin?

    Then again, for some reason, people always liked to bash Vettel. Wins multiple championships? The car did it! His teammate couldn't keep up! This and that. But guess what, the same can be said for pretty much every world champion.
    Not to mention the flack Ferrari got for Monaco and Austria. Red Bull pulled a similar move in Monaco which resulted in Ricciardo getting a podium, but for some reason this gets gladly ignored. They used Kimi as a roadblock in Austria - very true. But the Mercs did the same in Spain with Bottas. Where is the flack for that?
    Or that rotten 2014 year for Seb. Which a lot of people use to discredit his skills. Not like Lewis ever had a bad year, right? *cough* 2011 *cough*


    Anyway, here's hoping the title fight isn't over yet. 'Cos a repeat of 2013 only with Lewis at the top wouldn't please anyone. (Apart from Hamilton fans and Brits.)
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  • VetteIfanVetteIfan Member Race Engineer
    edited July 19
    People already talking about 3 years of further domination even though Vettel's still leading the WDC and there are 10 races to come. It's been two weeks since Vettel lost out on pole by fluffing the last corner and finished less than a second behind race leader Bottas. You folks remind me of this:
    https://media.giphy.com/media/HUkOv6BNWc1HO/giphy.gif

    Tone it down a notch, will you? Jeezus...


    But you're not stupid Dan, you can see the way this season is headed. The first 4 races the Mercedes' was overweight and wasn't full 2017 spec, we only saw the full 2017 Mercedes car in Spain. Since then it's been the clear cream of the crop. Monaco aside, which is pretty much hand built for Ferrari's short wheelbase against Mercedes' very long wheelbase - and even then they were only half a tenth off pole. Austria was better but the only reason it finished so close was because of Bottas' terrible tyre blisters in the second stint - in the first stint when the tyres were working he had an enourmous advantage. 

    As for so called periods of domination, like it or not the Mercedes' domination is nothing like we've seen in the last two decades. Schumacher had his hands full with Hakkinen/McLaren for years, and then Raikkonen/Montoya in the epic 2003 season. In 2010 we had five championship contenders, 2012 had eight different race winners through the season with one of the greatest championship finales - Brazil 2012 still holds the record (or close to the record) for most overtakes in a race ever (144), that's without even taking in to account the dramatic title battle. 

    My point is while Schumacher and Vettel had certain years where they dominated, there were at least chunks of their "domination" where they had very viable outside threats which were very entertaining. For 3 straight years Mercedes' have had zero outside threat, which alone makes it a lot less satisfying to watch. And, as previously mentioned, it's in danger now of becoming a 4th. 
  • GoldenColtGoldenColt Member Team Principal
    edited July 20
    @ Seb
    Regarding Spain: Vettel lost out on pole by completely fluffing the last sector more than the others. In the race he lost out to Lewis because of Bottas blocking him and the timing of the VSC plus Mercedes nailing their last pitstop with Lewis. The fact that Lewis got past him easily was down to the medium tyre being so much slower that Vettel was defenseless. I didn't see a clear advantage for Mercedes in Spain.

    Regarding Austria, we'll have to agree to disagree. The Mercedes was the car to beat on US, the Ferrari was the car to beat on SS. Qualifying was damn close aswell, so no clear advantage to Mercedes.

    And once again, the battle for the WDC went down to the wire in both 2014 and 2016, which made both seasons infinitely more interesting to watch than 2011 and 2013, at least regarding the top spot. 2010 was an amazing season championship-wise, but most of the races were damn boring with hardly any overtakes. In 2012 we had the tyre lottery at the beginning of the season, which made things artificially more interesting. Nothing I'd personally like to see again. Sure, some races stood out in these few seasons, but we also had some terrific races in 2015, a season which overall is regarded as one of the most boring ones. Remember Hungary or the US-Grand Prix? That's two races I'll remember for a long time. Bahrain 2014 was a thriller despite one team having an advantage of more than 2 secs per lap once they turned up their engines. And that's just a few races off the top of my head.

    2017 so far has been an amazing season, with 3 drivers fighting for the WDC. Until things really go completely Mercedes' way from now onwards and they start to dominate the rest of the season, I struggle to see why you're this negative regarding 2017.
    Post edited by GoldenColt on
  • VetteIfanVetteIfan Member Race Engineer
    @ Dan (good idea because it's quite a long thing to quote :L)

    Agreed Vettel has never been good through S3 in Spain, but both Ferrari's were losing time there all weekend. In the race Lewis' pace when he was on the mediums was competitive vs Vettel was on the softs, so I believe he would've had a good shot even in a straight fight. Spain was one of the closer fights but it was still in favour of Mercedes'. 

    For me it made no sense that Bottas had the worse pace out of the top 4 when he was the one on the freshest SS tyres of them all. Imo he was just suffering with uncharacteristically high blistering compared to the others (something that was visible by the tyres) which contributed to the apparent lack of pace. Lewis' pace on the SS at the time was good. Qualifying was always likely to be close around Austria because it only has 8 real corners. But as you say, I guess agree to disagree on that one. 

    The title fights from the last few years though haven't really wetted the appetite, so to speak. Partly, as mentioned before, it is just one team dominating so the lack of competition meant if one driver has a bad day he finished 2nd. And partly because one driver for the vast majority of the 3 years had a clear advantage on the other. Let's face it the only reason those two titles went to the final race was due to good fortune for Nico. If we're comparing, 2010 + 2012 went to the last race based on it being a really close battle between closely matched driver/team pairings. And thank god Nico did have some good fortune otherwise we would've had 3 seasons like 2015, which was indeed one of the most boring seasons I've personally seen despite the occasional highlight. 

    2017 has been good so far on the whole in terms of the championship (there have been good races but it's also had a few forgettable ones), but my fears are founded on what we have seen recently and what it means going forward. Clearly you don't think the same way and that's fine, we'll see how it develops.
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