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For the sake of the players... where is all the information codies?

F1 2017 is getting set to launch next month, and we still have no official information on how anything in the game works other than from E3.  Where is the developers blog?  Where is a breakdown and screenshots of how career mode functions this year?  Where is a list of new features?  I feel like we're diving head first into a game that we don't know again.  Why the secrecy?  Are you planning on releasing half a game like 2015 again?  Are you releasing a product similar to F1 2014 which was basically just 13 with an update driver roster?  Are you releasing a massively expanded upon and re-tooled game like 2016?  I honestly have no idea what I'm in store for, and I don't think anyone else here does either.  All users do is ask questions because they genuinely want to know about the product that they are going to buy next month, and never do they get any answers other than from other community members.  A prospective buyer should not have to browse a forum and read various different topics posted by users to find shreds of information.  How does that help the casual consumer?  How does that help raise market awareness for your upcoming product?  

I don't think giving us some official notes on the game, or at least a developers blog is too much to ask for.  Just don't be so secretive with your game.  Give us the information we are craving so we know what we're buying, and so we can get excited for whats in store.
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Comments

  • elaborateruseelaborateruse Member New Car Smell
    Operator1 said:

    What difference does it make at this point? Why spend any marketing effort/dollars to inform consumers when so many people who always buy the F1 games every year are just going to rush out to pre-order & buy the next one anyway, regardless of whether they know anything about it or not? They're not losing any sales that they didn't already have in the bag from "dedicated fans." No matter what the actual game itself is like, F1 fans will buy it just because it says "F1" on the box and it has likenesses of the official drivers & cars. As long as people continue handing over money every year for the same treatment, people will continue receiving that same treatment.


    That's where there is a catch-22.  If fans take a stand and say "No, I won't buy your product without knowing anything about it," it sells poorly and they have no incentive to make a game next year.  Obviously we don't want that.  We just want Codies to be more transparent and forthcoming with information.  On the other side, if Codies starts giving out more information literally nothing bad can come from it.  Fans will be informed and excited, and your average non-F1-fan-sim-racer might pick up on some of the features in the game and take a chance on the new product.  So we, as fans and consumers, do what?  Boycott and risk there not being another game next year?  Companies like EA aren't going to make an F1 game anymore.  This isn't 2005.  They wouldn't make enough of a profit on it for them to even consider making it.  F1 is stuck with Codies.  We're stuck with Codies.  We have to play by their rules, but we should at least let them know that their rules are BS.
  • Operator1Operator1 Member, Drivers Team Principal

    elaborateruse said:
    That's where there is a catch-22.  If fans take a stand and say "No, I won't buy your product without knowing anything about it," it sells poorly and they have no incentive to make a game next year.  Obviously we don't want that.  We just want Codies to be more transparent and forthcoming with information.  On the other side, if Codies starts giving out more information literally nothing bad can come from it.  Fans will be informed and excited, and your average non-F1-fan-sim-racer might pick up on some of the features in the game and take a chance on the new product.  So we, as fans and consumers, do what?  Boycott and risk there not being another game next year?  Companies like EA aren't going to make an F1 game anymore.  This isn't 2005.  They wouldn't make enough of a profit on it for them to even consider making it.  F1 is stuck with Codies.  We're stuck with Codies.  We have to play by their rules, but we should at least let them know that their rules are BS.

    LOL! Stockholm Syndrome much? Nobody is "stuck" buying poorly-marketed (& often poor quality) video games. Buyers are the ones with the money, so if sellers want our money then they have to play by our rules.

    Money talks, so when buyers repeatedly buy the same thing no matter how bad it is, sellers listen to the money (sales), not to forum posts.

    If there's money to be made selling F1 games, somebody will make them.

    If nobody buys it, it's because nobody wants it - because the seller didn't offer something that people want to buy and/or because the seller didn't market it better.

    If nobody wants to buy it, then the seller needs to make something that people do want to buy - by including features people ask for and/or by marketing the product better.



    *Disclaimer: my statements only represent my own musings, not "speaking for others" or "stating opinions as facts."

    forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/03/31/why-buyer-beware-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/
    polygon.com/2014/8/20/6049157/Diablo-3-new-releases-wait-patience
    venturebeat.com/2013/12/10/well-fix-it-later-why-do-gamers-accept-brokenunfinished-products/
    gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-19-buggy-games-deserve-much-harsher-treatment
    eurogamer.net/articles/2015-10-01-new-consumer-rights-act-puts-gamers-in-the-driving-seat
    pretendracecars.net/2017/01/08/why-ive-cut-back-on-sim-racing
    Partially
     functional games should not charge anywhere near full retail price. • If a game is ready to sell, it should be ready to play. • Launch day should not be the start of a public retail beta. • 'Limited resources' & the impossibility of 'perfection' are not justifications for poor quality. • Pre-ordering & buying games at launch is paying for the worst version of the game at its highest price - it'll function better after it's patched, and there are always discount sales later. Why pay full price up-front to be a post-launch beta tester? • As long as people continue buying it, companies will continue selling it. • If we want good quality, we have to stop buying & funding bad quality. #NeverPreOrder

  • coolieboycoolieboy Member, Drivers Race Steward
    ^^^ I would hold off on saying companies like EA won't make F1 games anymore.  The direction that LM is heading in regards to video games will require a developer with money and resources. I'm talking about esports, online betting, and the most important, actually racing against the drivers in real time on race day.  F1 Challenge sold well so EA is capable of doing justice to the genre. 
  • elaborateruseelaborateruse Member New Car Smell
    edited July 16
    It's my opinion that you're wrong.  Big companies will not make a Formula 1 game for the same reason that Disney won't make a new Tron film: it's not profitable enough.  Disney made a profit of around 100 to 200 million dollars on Tron Legacy.  They could follow that up with a new film, but considering Marvel, Lucasfilm, and Pixar and the profits their films make, they don't want to waste their time on small profits.  The same goes for the video game industry.  Companies like EA are making games that appeal to as wide an audience as possible.  Games like Destiny (although not EA), Battlefield, Battlefront, Titanfall, Overwatch (also not EA) are games that are hugely profitable.  A Formula 1 game would net them a profit, but nearly as big as their AAA titles.  For that reason they will not pump resources into a small project such as this.  The only other scenario in which another company would make an F1 game would be if a bigger company bought Codemasters and dissolved them and their properties into the company.  Then, with having a license that has been paid for, or will have to be paid on for another x amount of years, they would make a game either to A) avoid a loss or B.) make a small profit for as long as they have the license, depending on which licensing contract scenario is present.

     So yes, we are stuck with Codemasters if we want to play a Formula 1 game.  It's up to the consumer to decide what to do about that.  They can either make a good consumer choice and not buy a game they know nothing about, or they can blindly buy into a game just because it has the F1 logo on it.  Either way the outcome is not good.  If people don't buy F1 2017 then it hurts Codemasters bottom line, possibly to the point where they don't renew the license because it's not seen as profitable.  If people buy it blindly then they could be walking into a $60 trap like in 2014 and 2015, and the cycle continues.
  • kevinkirkkevinkirk Member Petrol Head
    It's my opinion that you're wrong.  Big companies will not make a Formula 1 game for the same reason that Disney won't make a new Tron film: it's not profitable enough.  Disney made a profit of around 100 to 200 million dollars on Tron Legacy.  They could follow that up with a new film, but considering Marvel, Lucasfilm, and Pixar and the profits their films make, they don't want to waste their time on small profits.  The same goes for the video game industry.  Companies like EA are making games that appeal to as wide an audience as possible.  Games like Destiny (although not EA), Battlefield, Battlefront, Titanfall, Overwatch (also not EA) are games that are hugely profitable.  A Formula 1 game would net them a profit, but nearly as big as their AAA titles.  For that reason they will not pump resources into a small project such as this.  The only other scenario in which another company would make an F1 game would be if a bigger company bought Codemasters and dissolved them and their properties into the company.  Then, with having a license that has been paid for, or will have to be paid on for another x amount of years, they would make a game either to A) avoid a loss or B.) make a small profit for as long as they have the license, depending on which licensing contract scenario is present.

     So yes, we are stuck with Codemasters if we want to play a Formula 1 game.  It's up to the consumer to decide what to do about that.  They can either make a good consumer choice and not buy a game they know nothing about, or they can blindly buy into a game just because it has the F1 logo on it.  Either way the outcome is not good.  If people don't buy F1 2017 then it hurts Codemasters bottom line, possibly to the point where they don't renew the license because it's not seen as profitable.  If people buy it blindly then they could be walking into a $60 trap like in 2014 and 2015, and the cycle continues.
    no one is forcing you to buy a game you know nothing about. There is no difference in learning about it before release and taking some time to learn about it after release before you buy it.  You are simply complaining about that you have to wait to learn about it.
    Xbox one, controller
  • Operator1Operator1 Member, Drivers Team Principal
    edited July 16

    Your 'logic' says it's better to continue repeatedly buying bad games than to have no games to buy... And that's exactly why so many games are so bad - because they don't have to be good to sell. Companies have no incentive to do better when they can spend less on quality & marketing and still profit.

    I would like a great F1 game too, but I'm not going to spend my money or time on any games that I won't enjoy playing. I'm not looking to buy any F1 game just because I want to play an F1 game. I buy games that look like experiences I will enjoy playing for days/weeks/months. I don't care what brand or celebrity is on the cover if the game itself won't be fun for me to play a lot.



    *Disclaimer: my statements only represent my own musings, not "speaking for others" or "stating opinions as facts."

    forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/03/31/why-buyer-beware-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/
    polygon.com/2014/8/20/6049157/Diablo-3-new-releases-wait-patience
    venturebeat.com/2013/12/10/well-fix-it-later-why-do-gamers-accept-brokenunfinished-products/
    gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-19-buggy-games-deserve-much-harsher-treatment
    eurogamer.net/articles/2015-10-01-new-consumer-rights-act-puts-gamers-in-the-driving-seat
    pretendracecars.net/2017/01/08/why-ive-cut-back-on-sim-racing
    Partially
     functional games should not charge anywhere near full retail price. • If a game is ready to sell, it should be ready to play. • Launch day should not be the start of a public retail beta. • 'Limited resources' & the impossibility of 'perfection' are not justifications for poor quality. • Pre-ordering & buying games at launch is paying for the worst version of the game at its highest price - it'll function better after it's patched, and there are always discount sales later. Why pay full price up-front to be a post-launch beta tester? • As long as people continue buying it, companies will continue selling it. • If we want good quality, we have to stop buying & funding bad quality. #NeverPreOrder

  • elaborateruseelaborateruse Member New Car Smell
    edited July 16
    ****.  You're both not getting it are you.  I'm not buying the game.  I don't know anything about it.  I'm not suggesting other people buy it or not.  I'm laying out both sides of the coin, what could happen if two different scenarios were to happen.  You guys are so standoffish and can't just have a constructive conversation, can you?  This community is ****.
  • Operator1Operator1 Member, Drivers Team Principal
    edited July 16

    ****.  You're both not getting it are you.  I'm not buying the game.  I don't know anything about it.  I'm not suggesting other people buy it or not.  I'm laying out both sides of the coin, what could happen if two different scenarios were to happen.  You guys are so standoffish and can't just have a constructive conversation, can you?  This community is ****.

    I'm not attacking you. I'm stating my opinions - same as you are stating your opinions.

    You have opinions, and you have the freedom to express them on a forum.

    I have opinions too, and I have the same freedom that you have to express opinions.

    Does everybody's opinion have to be the same as everyone else's in order for conversations to be 'constructive?'

    Are you the only one allowed to express an opinion? Is nobody allowed to have a different opinion? Is the community '****' just because some might not have the same opinions that you have?

    If you want to express your opinions where nobody can express theirs in response, a forum isn't the place. Post on a blog & disable comments/replies.



    *Disclaimer: my statements only represent my own musings, not "speaking for others" or "stating opinions as facts."

    forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/03/31/why-buyer-beware-is-a-terrible-excuse-for-bad-video-games/
    polygon.com/2014/8/20/6049157/Diablo-3-new-releases-wait-patience
    venturebeat.com/2013/12/10/well-fix-it-later-why-do-gamers-accept-brokenunfinished-products/
    gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-12-19-buggy-games-deserve-much-harsher-treatment
    eurogamer.net/articles/2015-10-01-new-consumer-rights-act-puts-gamers-in-the-driving-seat
    pretendracecars.net/2017/01/08/why-ive-cut-back-on-sim-racing
    Partially
     functional games should not charge anywhere near full retail price. • If a game is ready to sell, it should be ready to play. • Launch day should not be the start of a public retail beta. • 'Limited resources' & the impossibility of 'perfection' are not justifications for poor quality. • Pre-ordering & buying games at launch is paying for the worst version of the game at its highest price - it'll function better after it's patched, and there are always discount sales later. Why pay full price up-front to be a post-launch beta tester? • As long as people continue buying it, companies will continue selling it. • If we want good quality, we have to stop buying & funding bad quality. #NeverPreOrder

  • WestyyWestyy Member New Car Smell
    Be patient, I don't know why your in such a rush to see things. They will come. There's already been some gameplay shown. go watch them then wait for new ones. 
  • haydn23haydn23 Member Race Steward

    Honestly, I think that it is better that they leave it to the last second. Cause otherwise the hype will start to wear off. If we all wait there will be a massive push a lot of hype, we'll all be shitting ourselves with excitement and then it'll be all fine. The forums will also start blowing up with stupid comments, fanboys and repeated discussions (already started happening ffs), then we know it's all good. Just I hate the last 3 things that happen, and please of someone from codies reads this put an effort in with the forums aswell please for christs sake, manage the **** forums.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD4KthnFwavKbaHfHtz5ulg
    Steam: Haydn02  Xbox: Sid3ways Nismo PSN: Jenbut21 Twitter: @SidewaysNismo Uplay: H4ydn02
  • BelgiumDudeBelgiumDude Member Race Steward
    Or even worse, we go total bananas about a minor detail we saw and didn't like. 
  • madwakmadwak Member Wheel Nut
    Don't know what all the fuss is about it's just gonna be same s*** different box as it always is. 
  • LilBrown47LilBrown47 Member Unleaded
    Easy solution to promote quality: 

    Open up the F1 licence for multiple game studios to create F1 related products, only then everyone will get what they want whilst reassuring that all studios are forced to give at least 100 % to be able to even compete at all.

    Another recent thread does have this topic in it and is quite interesting to read through, you fellas should check it out for sure if you have the time.

    Here's the link:

    forums.codemasters.com/discussion/54646/the-end-of-exclusivity-what-does-this-mean-for-codemasters#latest
  • R9NALD09R9NALD09 Member Unleaded
    I've been gaming for 20+ years and it has NEVER been a good sign when the information is so scarce before a release.  Will wait on this and wait for a pre-played version
  • kevinkirkkevinkirk Member Petrol Head
    Easy solution to promote quality: 

    Open up the F1 licence for multiple game studios to create F1 related products, only then everyone will get what they want whilst reassuring that all studios are forced to give at least 100 % to be able to even compete at all.

    Another recent thread does have this topic in it and is quite interesting to read through, you fellas should check it out for sure if you have the time.

    Here's the link:

    forums.codemasters.com/discussion/54646/the-end-of-exclusivity-what-does-this-mean-for-codemasters#latest
    they dont "open " a license up. Licenses are bought and paid for buy who makes the official game.  There is also a limit to how much of something can be in a game without needing the license. That why Pcars or Assetto have just one or two cars from a series because more than that requires them to have to license of the official game.
    Xbox one, controller
  • LilBrown47LilBrown47 Member Unleaded
    edited July 17
    kevinkirk said:
    Easy solution to promote quality: 

    Open up the F1 licence for multiple game studios to create F1 related products, only then everyone will get what they want whilst reassuring that all studios are forced to give at least 100 % to be able to even compete at all.

    Another recent thread does have this topic in it and is quite interesting to read through, you fellas should check it out for sure if you have the time.

    Here's the link:

    forums.codemasters.com/discussion/54646/the-end-of-exclusivity-what-does-this-mean-for-codemasters#latest
    they dont "open " a license up. Licenses are bought and paid for buy who makes the official game.  There is also a limit to how much of something can be in a game without needing the license. That why Pcars or Assetto have just one or two cars from a series because more than that requires them to have to license of the official game.
    Back in the days multiple gaming studios "bought" the F1 licence to create specifically F1 related content, not to mention that it was rather cheap and the video game branche itself wasn't seen as lucrative as it had become around the mid 'early' 2000's.

    In the recent years through the FOM not ranking the video game branche high on their list of  media exposure, and the automatic result fading into the convenience of not having to go the 'modern' route of free advertisement, they didn't even try to make their sports more appealing to the masses.

    With Liberty Media, the ones who have repeatedly stated that they want to expand their media exposure to broader and also younger audiences, this discrepancy of old fashioned thinking is finally over hence why the probability of other gaming studios than Codemasters going for the F1 licence would only rise, if Liberty Media plays their cards right.

    In other words, Liberty Media needs to "open" up the discourse of advertising their sports to the media itself, enabling all interested participants to make the deal, which is the same as "opening" up the licence to get more customers / more revenue in the end.

    P-Cars (SMS) doesn't have all the official F1 cars in it because they never went that route in the first place, their goal was to give a broad experience of different serieses to drive with in a "complete" and finished game, not focusing on one single racing series.

    As for Asseto Corsa, they never went that route either with the same reasoning behind their back, but instead Kunos Simulazioni made their simulation highly moddable and thus don't need to pay any licencing fees for a whole F1 series at all.

    Let's be quite frank here, the late 90's / early 2000's were very competitive in nature to be able to have any positive results it was needed to stay on top of the game at all costs, whereas today exclusive monopolies only hurt the whole gaming business in terms of quality and creativity big time.....

    I blame the COD / Activision syndrome for that, a syndrome that allows for this following abomination being seen and being accepted / blindly tolerated as the norm:

    "quantity, no creativity and low effort / low production value > quality = $$$"

    That 'syndrome' has completely changed the gaming branche and the perspective of how gamers feel, all the way to the point that boycotting the very own studios that have consistently given zero f(iretr)ucks in order to improve their quality is seen as a no - go that could "destroy" the exclusive annual release schedule......

    In that case i can only say this much, it's most definitely better to have no "official" F1 game if the quality improves, rather than to force ourselves on grunty little pieces of incompetence that advertise themselves as being "official" representations of the sports even though they are being far from it.

    --------------------

    "Cocaine is a hell of a drug"

    - Exclusive annual video game releases are the modern gamers drug of choice it seems.
    Post edited by LilBrown47 on
  • BelgiumDudeBelgiumDude Member Race Steward
    So there would be games like 'Official F1 racing game', "the really official F1 racing game", "F1 the more official game than all the others"? And then we pay 3x times for the same cars, the same drivers and the same tracks because they all will try to convince us that theirs is better and then all of them suck in some area what means someone will have to come up with the brilliant idea of bundling all those forces together because then we have the best off all those Formula 1 games in one game?
  • LilBrown47LilBrown47 Member Unleaded
    So there would be games like 'Official F1 racing game', "the really official F1 racing game", "F1 the more official game than all the others"? And then we pay 3x times for the same cars, the same drivers and the same tracks because they all will try to convince us that theirs is better and then all of them suck in some area what means someone will have to come up with the brilliant idea of bundling all those forces together because then we have the best off all those Formula 1 games in one game?
    Dude, that's not how competition works in a multi dimensional economy of different branches and genres.

    Success in such a hypothetical "hyper - competitive" scene is only possible if quality is maintained at a high level whilst going as low as possible with the price itself, especially if other similar studios offer more with a reasonable price.

    Not to mention that prices above the 70 bucks mark are more often than not seen as a rip off by a bigger majority of modern gamers anyways, unless it's being a proper collectors edition that is.....

    o.O
  • PrinceVlad1888PrinceVlad1888 Member New Car Smell
    @elaborateruse - I can feel your frustration, i really can...
    However, since their first iteration of the series it's fair to say their information; whether it be through the forum or announced publicly somewhere else, has series been on the decline.
    Codemasters stated to be more active on social media and here on the forums, however albeit there has been a 'little' improvement, it still IMHO isn't nearly on par with any other developer...which it should be!.

    Even @jennyannem when she first introduced herself to the forum, promised to be more pro-active in comments, discussions and members questions - that has 'soon' diminished as well...

    However, as you may be well aware; Formula 1 and it's policies has always been a somewhat secretive affair, which means Codemasters are bound by those policies (rules) and whether we like it or not, that unfortunately will remain the case for the foreseeable future.
    I know @jennyannem mentioned in another thread that they were still in the process of approvals, which obviously takes time (out of their hands). 

    The thing is after all this time since being on these forums i have learnt one thing; No matter how much ranting or raving you do it won't get you anywhere - Codemasters will present what they have when they are ready(or have the go ahead)....and there's nothing that's going to change that.

    P.S. If you are PC based, my advice would be to get Assetto Corsa and download the RSS Formula Hybrid Modification....Man oh man is it good! ;)
    'I am the last of my kind...'
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