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Slicks in Intermediate conditions are a joke

Seriously, what is the point of having intermediates if slicks perform as good or even better when it's raining?
I just had a 50% race at Spa. There were 9 laps to go when it started to rain. I went in for intermediates 3 laps later, because I lost already 8 seconds per lap, there were raindrops all over my face and my tires produced a lot of spray. So I changed my tires just to realize that it's even worse on inters, like if I was on ice. Two laps later DRS was disabled, but the AI stayed on slicks and were still faster. I lost 9 places and 45 seconds because slicks were better in rainy conditions than **** intermediates.

If it gets wet slicks should have a huge performance drop, it should be nearly impossible even to stay on track when there is already a lot of spray.
So either the visuals are more than wrong or the slicks have invisible treads in it.
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Comments

  • Dez0808Dez0808 Member Wheel Nut
    Also seen this. Engineer said come in for inters and the AI stayed on slicks. I was much slower and burnt my inters out. AI finally came in for slicks a good 10 laps later
  • Laurent701Laurent701 Member Unleaded
    Hello, had two similar race in career with changing condition,  but I do 100% race and it was properly working so far.
    Maybee less race lenght do something wrong with weather condition??
  • DolphinGrayA4DolphinGrayA4 Member Unleaded
    Verzal said:
    Seriously, what is the point of hav9ing intermediates if slicks perform as good or even better when it's raining?
    I just had a 50% race at Spa. There were 9 laps to go when it started to rain. I went in for intermediates 3 laps later, because I lost already 8 seconds per lap, there were raindrops all over my face and my tires produced a lot of spray. So I changed my tires just to realize that it's even worse on inters, like if I was on ice. Two laps later DRS was disabled, but the AI stayed on slicks and were still faster. I lost 9 places and 45 seconds because slicks were better in rainy conditions than **** intermediates.

    If it gets wet slicks should have a huge performance drop, it should be nearly impossible even to stay on track when there is already a lot of spray.
    So either the visuals are more than wrong or the slicks have invisible treads in it.
    What difficulty are you playing on? Like the guy above me said, if your on anything less than 75 then you probably just need more practice in the wet.

    As far as ive seen though (i do 25% races) its a pretty good transition from wet to dry and vice versa.
  • CofferCoffer Member Unleaded
    edited September 13
    Odds are you're much too cautious and slow in wet conditions, as the AI should be very easily beatable in those conditions. CM have said time and again before the release that Jeff won't know for sure when it's time to switch anymore and the transition is much more dynamic now (as seen in Jimmy Broadbent's China race), so you have to figure out what the best time to switch is. Don't want to take the gamble and risk falling down the order, don't switch tyres. Simple as that.

    Hint: slide more. You often don't need the extra tyre life and it allows you to turn at a much better rate. On 110% even with one of the absolute worst cars in the wet (the Haas) the pace gain is enough to push me from being a handful of tenths faster than Grosjean to keeping up with an already heavily upgraded Mercedes.
    Post edited by Coffer on
  • StaatsfeindNr1StaatsfeindNr1 Member Unleaded
    Oh my....learn to drive under wet conditions! And by the way youre not forced to pit when you're engineer says it! I go to the pit when I think it's the right time to change!
  • VerzalVerzal Member New Car Smell
    I know how to drive, don't worry about that. I started simracing ten years ago (mostly rfactor and assetto corsa). I'm on 105 in a McLaren and won Silverstone in the wet, because the AI is pretty slow in these conditions and I had a little bit of luck with the safety car. 105 is also probably too low for me, because I outqualify Alonso every weekend with 0.5s or more and finish the race miles in front of him. So skill is really not the problem.

    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
  • CofferCoffer Member Unleaded
    edited September 13
    Verzal said:
    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
    Yes it is realistic. The spray can be seen even when it's not time to switch to intermediates, as was the case at Silverstone in 2015 and in Brazil in 2012 (the latter of which disproves the vast majority of your post, from the strategy to the rising amount of water on track and intensity of rain required to justify the switch). There have been plenty of cases in the past where, while the slicks were off the pace, they were still fast enough to make intermediates the incorrect tyre because the rain was simply not coming down hard enough and was intensifying at a very slow rate, meaning it took a long time for the amount of water on track to accumulate to such an extent that intermediates were required. That's why cutoff points exist and are so often mentioned in team radio messages.

    Your simracing skill is also completely irrelevant here as F1 2017's rain implementation, even with the fact that you don't have to change your line at all in wet conditions, vastly outclasses that of any sim at the moment, with most, like AC, not having one at all. There's more to driving in the rain than simply staying on the road and exploiting the exceptionally slow AI. That's why Button was so good at gauging the conditions compared to most other drivers, and CM have finally made it so that dynamic conditions give you the chance to put that sort of knowledge to the test.
  • patronaspatronas Member New Car Smell
    Verzal said:
    I know how to drive, don't worry about that. I started simracing ten years ago (mostly rfactor and assetto corsa). I'm on 105 in a McLaren and won Silverstone in the wet, because the AI is pretty slow in these conditions and I had a little bit of luck with the safety car. 105 is also probably too low for me, because I outqualify Alonso every weekend with 0.5s or more and finish the race miles in front of him. So skill is really not the problem.

    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
    I agree with u on this when the is spray coming from the tyres the ground is wet where in real life the wouldent be ablevto drive  on slicks done a 50 percent race yesterday started raining about 10 11 laps from end once started seeing spray from my tyres and my tyre temps droped to about 65 percent I switched to slicks hoping to jump my team mate for the podium I was on the inters for 3 laps before my team mate pitted for inters and the was no diffrence in the gap from when I pitted to when perez did I did notice thow the a1 only come in for inters when drs got disabled u see it in real life all the time as soon as the tracks gets a bit wet the slide all over and struggle to keepnthe car on track slick tyres have no tread so the is no way u should be able to drive on them in damp conditions as soon as the is a bit water on track it turns slippery 
  • patronaspatronas Member New Car Smell
    All so the top few drivers pitted for slicks when it started to rain which was how managed to get a good result then few laps later the pitted for inters 
  • CofferCoffer Member Unleaded
    edited September 13

    patronas said:
    Verzal said:
    I know how to drive, don't worry about that. I started simracing ten years ago (mostly rfactor and assetto corsa). I'm on 105 in a McLaren and won Silverstone in the wet, because the AI is pretty slow in these conditions and I had a little bit of luck with the safety car. 105 is also probably too low for me, because I outqualify Alonso every weekend with 0.5s or more and finish the race miles in front of him. So skill is really not the problem.

    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
    I agree with u on this when the is spray coming from the tyres the ground is wet where in real life the wouldent be ablevto drive  on slicks done a 50 percent race yesterday started raining about 10 11 laps from end once started seeing spray from my tyres and my tyre temps droped to about 65 percent I switched to slicks hoping to jump my team mate for the podium I was on the inters for 3 laps before my team mate pitted for inters and the was no diffrence in the gap from when I pitted to when perez did I did notice thow the a1 only come in for inters when drs got disabled u see it in real life all the time as soon as the tracks gets a bit wet the slide all over and struggle to keepnthe car on track slick tyres have no tread so the is no way u should be able to drive on them in damp conditions as soon as the is a bit water on track it turns slippery 
    Besides spouting the same misconceptions as the guy you're replying to, you pitted too early if the slicks were at 65 degrees. The only reason you didn't lose time was because the AI is slow in wet conditions - if you had stayed out, you would've outpaced Perez. And you absolutely can drive in those conditions, as Vettel showed when he passed Raikkonen in those exact conditions two years ago despite being hopeless in the dry.
  • tarrantinotarrantino Member Wheel Nut
    I had the last ten laps in China where it started to rain. Everyone stays out and there was spray on the camera. I kept behind Lewis and kept Bottas behind me. We were all doing 8 seconds a lap slower at the end but no point pitting.  
  • VerzalVerzal Member New Car Smell
    edited September 13
    Coffer said:
    Verzal said:
    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
    Yes it is realistic. The spray can be seen even when it's not time to switch to intermediates, as was the case at Silverstone in 2015 and in Brazil in 2012 (the latter of which disproves the vast majority of your post, from the strategy to the rising amount of water on track and intensity of rain required to justify the switch). There have been plenty of cases in the past where, while the slicks were off the pace, they were still fast enough to make intermediates the incorrect tyre because the rain was simply not coming down hard enough and was intensifying at a very slow rate, meaning it took a long time for the amount of water on track to accumulate to such an extent that intermediates were required. That's why cutoff points exist and are so often mentioned in team radio messages.


    Vettel coming in for intermediates. No spray at all, but already too wet for slicks. It looked much worse in my race.
    Slicks are just terribly even on damp conditions. You lose all your temperature due to the water and the reduced pace. And you have no displacement at all. This are exactly the conditions intermediates are made for.
  • CofferCoffer Member Unleaded
    edited September 13
    Verzal said:
    Coffer said:
    Verzal said:
    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
    Yes it is realistic. The spray can be seen even when it's not time to switch to intermediates, as was the case at Silverstone in 2015 and in Brazil in 2012 (the latter of which disproves the vast majority of your post, from the strategy to the rising amount of water on track and intensity of rain required to justify the switch). There have been plenty of cases in the past where, while the slicks were off the pace, they were still fast enough to make intermediates the incorrect tyre because the rain was simply not coming down hard enough and was intensifying at a very slow rate, meaning it took a long time for the amount of water on track to accumulate to such an extent that intermediates were required. That's why cutoff points exist and are so often mentioned in team radio messages.


    Vettel coming in for intermediates. No spray at all, but already too wet for slicks. It looked much worse in my race.
    Slicks are just terribly even on damp conditions. You lose all your temperature due to the water and the reduced pace. And you have no displacement at all. This are exactly the conditions intermediates are made for.
    It ended up being the wrong call as the slicks were faster, as shown through Button and Hulkenberg and the fact that everyone came in again within a few laps. You've just proved my point. In these conditions, the only thing the intermediates are good at is overheating, and making you crash if you don't want to take any chances (Vettel, Alonso) or if you aren't a good enough driver.
  • VerzalVerzal Member New Car Smell
    edited September 13
    Coffer said:
    It ended up being the wrong call as the slicks were faster, as shown through Button and Hulkenberg and the fact that everyone came in again within a few laps. You've just proved my point. In these conditions, the only thing the intermediates are good at is overheating, and making you crash if you don't want to take any chances (Vettel, Alonso) or if you aren't a good enough driver.
    It was not the wrong call. This was his last stop in the race (for stint 5). Everybody went for intermediates.
  • DolphinGrayA4DolphinGrayA4 Member Unleaded
    The right time to pit in this game is whenever DRS is enabled/disabled. Maybe a lap sooner if its drying, but otherwise thats when its worked for me and ive undercut something fierce snd gained a lot of positions.
  • patronaspatronas Member New Car Smell
    Coffer said:

    patronas said:
    Verzal said:
    I know how to drive, don't worry about that. I started simracing ten years ago (mostly rfactor and assetto corsa). I'm on 105 in a McLaren and won Silverstone in the wet, because the AI is pretty slow in these conditions and I had a little bit of luck with the safety car. 105 is also probably too low for me, because I outqualify Alonso every weekend with 0.5s or more and finish the race miles in front of him. So skill is really not the problem.

    The problem is that the transition is linear. But that's just not how it is in real life. When it's getting wet (visually seen by the spray) slick tires rapidly lose a lot of performance because they are .... SLICKS. In my race it rained 9 laps at Spa (nearly 20 minutes) and slicks still were on the same level than intermediates. In the first 5 laps after it started to rain, they were even a lot faster. That's just plain stupid.
    I agree with u on this when the is spray coming from the tyres the ground is wet where in real life the wouldent be ablevto drive  on slicks done a 50 percent race yesterday started raining about 10 11 laps from end once started seeing spray from my tyres and my tyre temps droped to about 65 percent I switched to slicks hoping to jump my team mate for the podium I was on the inters for 3 laps before my team mate pitted for inters and the was no diffrence in the gap from when I pitted to when perez did I did notice thow the a1 only come in for inters when drs got disabled u see it in real life all the time as soon as the tracks gets a bit wet the slide all over and struggle to keepnthe car on track slick tyres have no tread so the is no way u should be able to drive on them in damp conditions as soon as the is a bit water on track it turns slippery 
    Besides spouting the same misconceptions as the guy you're replying to, you pitted too early if the slicks were at 65 degrees. The only reason you didn't lose time was because the AI is slow in wet conditions - if you had stayed out, you would've outpaced Perez. And you absolutely can drive in those conditions, as Vettel showed when he passed Raikkonen in those exact conditions two years ago despite being hopeless 


    So what about the race in china this year wasent even spray on track in fact parts of track were dry and the still started on intermediats and when the did swapp to drys the were still drivers spinning in the slight damp conditions what race was it vettel over took riakken in damp conditions on slick tyres and ill check it out see if the cars were throwing up spray on slick tyres if a car is throwing up spray on slicks then the is no way the driver on slicks could match a driver on inters as that means the track is wet then if the could drive on slick tryes on a wet track the would be no point of inters
  • Rinehart27Rinehart27 Member Unleaded
    To the OP - my strategy is not to pit for inters or wets based on my own pace, but relative to other cars. If I'm lapping say 8 seconds per lap slower, but still matching or going quicker than cars around me, stay out, if I'm losing time, pit. Simples.
  • ForeverchampsForeverchamps Member Wheel Nut
    edited September 13
    Verzal said:
    If it gets wet slicks should have a huge performance drop, it should be nearly impossible even to stay on track when there is already a lot of spray.
    Not necessarily - I normally race in karts, and when you are out on slicks, it can appear fairly wet and sometimes I can still lap within 1-2% of the dry lap times, so this would be about 3 seconds on a normal F1 track. Other times, it can look fairly dry and then you can be up to 20% off the dry lap times, as it is all about where the water is lying - wets/inters are great at getting rid of standing water (puddles), but sometimes you can get a fine rain you get a lot of droplets on the helmet, but if it isn't forming puddles, you can still drive (or drift in those conditions) at fairly quick lap times.
  • plucka99plucka99 Member New Car Smell
    I think the OP doesn't understand that in damp conditions slicks can be faster and it light rain it can take a lot of laps before the track is wet enough for interns.  The spray is probably over exagerated in the game when only damp but apart from that I find the rain simulation vastly superior to previous years where it was basically an on/off switch.  The guy above also nailed it- the time to change is generally when DRS is disabled.
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