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  • tbtstttbtstt Member Champion
    dgeesi0 said:
    for eg someone was slating dirt 4 and claimed Dirt 2 was the best game ! i had to look at my screen twice and then say **** ? but...if thats what you like cool.
    Yeah. I was surprised to see people still citing DiRT 2 as their favourite game in the series!  
    dgeesi0 said:
    Dirt rally was better.most or majority know that. doesn't make it wrong its your opinion.you can like any game you like.that is fine. 
    It's possibly because of my preference in rally car classes but I am in the minority: my first choice in the series is still, for the moment, DiRT 4. 

    "If In Doubt, Flat Out!"


  • NarzugonNarzugon Member Wheel Nut
    LutzM said:
    Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

    In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
    Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
    For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

    All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...

    I was that way the day of and the following weeks of release. My thought process was that D4 was a step forward in this genre and that they would surely support it in the way of timely bug fixes (not referring to physics or My Stage) and future updates even if in the form of DLC's.




  • NarzugonNarzugon Member Wheel Nut
    dgeesi0 said:
    The thing with your system on short stages not too bad but on long ones its like you trapped in a loop.3/4/3/4/3/4 no lie. one of the australia events is just like that.

    You need real events. Especially in a rally sim type environment brings that feeling you rallying the same event maybe your hero is rallying or the event you will never get to go on. So it adds to the experience. An auto generated track/event just is kinda cold. No soul or anything. Just auto computer blah blah. People want to think ooh you can actually rally that finland stage or welsh stage. Its really important.


    I agree that the hand made stages in DR add so much to the game's Rally experience. Trouble is part of the player base gets tired of the same tracks (DLC's! DLC's! DLC's!) and rightfully claims that after a while you memorize the stages which detracts from the true Rally experience. I get that as well.

    I also get that in My Stage's current form, the stages don't look as good. They're not bad, but you just don't get the same immersion and as you said, when you run those long stages it really does get repetitive.

    But, my opinion is that I excepted My Stage for what it is. I bought the game knowing they were going to be generated stages. What I don't understand is why CM's doesn't defend it and support it. I'm no dev but why not add more tiles? That would've put out a lot of the fires in the beginning. Or at the very least they could've said "We're adding more tiles as we go.". Even that would've satisfied a lot of people. Adding more tiles couldn't be that much more of an expense for them and would have gone a long way in establishing a stronger user base which equals more sales.

    Ultimately I think the game should've released with real Rally stages (imported from DR?) for the career and have My Stage as the feature to carry the players beyond the Career. Even with that My Stage needs more tiles and areas.

    In today's gaming market games are released with issues. Depending on the level of issues I can deal with it. But I don't understand a developer that releases something like D4, slaps some hotfixes on it and lets it be. Support your product. Build your player base. Create loyal followers. Create new purchasable content. That will improve your numbers on future titles.

  • MiatakiasGRMiatakiasGR Member Pit Crew
    Ok if not full patch notes , codemasters should give us at least a little taste about what we should expect..
    With some many good racing games this period people will leave Dirt 4 for ever no matter what dlc or new content will come later..
  • Mystx24Mystx24 Member Unleaded
    Ok if not full patch notes , codemasters should give us at least a little taste about what we should expect..
    With some many good racing games this period people will leave Dirt 4 for ever no matter what dlc or new content will come later..
    I think i am one of these people who wont come back, to many other games that are as good handling wise or better, and are actually immersive in terms of stage creation, you just dont get that on the seat of your pants driving in D4, its oh hey look there goes that same fence and tree and embankment followed by oh **** did i just go in a circle swear i just took that road 1 min ago. Pc2 has me hooked now, along with wrc 7 which is surprisingly good after the stutter was patched. Its to little to late now, common bugs like Ai times, snow setup bug, setup bug which allows your setuo to read 0 req. Ill try it again if physics get overhauled or your stage gets more tiles, could care less about clubs at this point.
  • FedemaisonnaveFedemaisonnave Member, Drivers Co-Driver
    I prefer your stage, but I would love to get more countries than more tiles for the ones that exists
  • SamRWDSamRWD Member Petrol Head
    LutzM said:
    Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

    In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
    Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
    For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

    All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...
    I agree, I prefer Your Stage over DR stages any day. Of course YS is not perfect and I already pointed out ideas how to improve it.
  • DoubleTenDoubleTen Member New Car Smell
    SamRWD said:
    LutzM said:
    Funniest argument I read over and over again, is, that the stages in D4 are so boring and DR was much better...!

    In DR we had 2 stages per country, split and reversed to get 8 stages at all. Every player who did more than 50 hrs in DR knew all the stages by heart! It became a hotlaping event...
    Of course, the tiles for the stages are finite in D4's your-stage, but the surroundings change. And while the corners repeat, the order changes and so do the surroundings...
    For me most stages are still challenging and with over 140hrs of D4 they're not boring at all...

    All this negative moaning is getting on my nerves...
    I agree, I prefer Your Stage over DR stages any day. Of course YS is not perfect and I already pointed out ideas how to improve it.
    whatever, your stage is underdeveloped and totally predictable.

    in DiRT Rally you have few stages but you'll never get through the same corner over and over, every turn is different, and i'm not talking about the background. Angles, width of the road, jumps, pits, rocks, trees.

    in DiRT 4 you will race in the same corner multiple times even in the shorter generated stages, with the same obstacle, the same background, the same width... And they could even recycle tips and things from DiRT 1-2-3-Rally and even Showdown.

    IDK how this cannot be boring.
    Re-Volt used a better track editor than this and you have only 8 pieces to use
  • cjr3559cjr3559 Member New Car Smell
    “In DiRT Rally you have few stages but you'll never get through the same corner over and over, every turn is different, and i'm not talking about the background. Angles, width of the road, jumps, pits, rocks, trees.”

    Every corner in DR is different until you’ve gone through the same STAGES over and over and over. How is that also not repeating?  Just because compared to D4?
  • DoubleTenDoubleTen Member New Car Smell
    edited October 11
    cjr3559 said:
    “In DiRT Rally you have few stages but you'll never get through the same corner over and over, every turn is different, and i'm not talking about the background. Angles, width of the road, jumps, pits, rocks, trees.”

    Every corner in DR is different until you’ve gone through the same STAGES over and over and over. How is that also not repeating?  Just because compared to D4?
    Bidno Moorland has 50 unique turns, and is one of the shortest stages in DiRT Rally.
    The all spain location in DiRT 4 has 20 tips, and is the best location for me.

    So, because someone has promised "you'll never see a corner twice" and "we've improved DiRT Rally in every single aspect", i'm here to compare a type of laziness vs. a new type of laziness.
    DiRT Rally is boring? fine, yes it is after a while, i know!
    DiRT 4 is boring much more than that with the laziest track-gen i've ever seen and has been developed AFTER DiRT Rally, not before, not contemporary, but AFTER DiRT Rally.
    And is boring in the main core of the game, which is rally.
    It's like a football game where the funniest part of the game is customizing the shirts and the GQ
    Post edited by DoubleTen on
  • ShodanCatShodanCat Member Wheel Nut
    And another one! - DJ Khaled

    • Body is 12 characters too short.
  • RodgerDaviesRodgerDavies Member Champion
    I prefer the concept of Your Stage and I hope they continue with this direction, but I don't feel it's good enough at the moment. Crucially though, it's the same basic issue as Dirt Rally had: not enough unique kilometres of road.

    Roughly 120km of unique road in DR and, I would guess, there's a similar amount in D4. The quality of some of their countries and stages may be questionable (although the German, Polish, Monte Carlo and Mexico ones are definitely superb), but WRC7 must have double that at a conservative estimate (13 X 20km) and, whilst I appreciate that the game might not be to everyone's taste (and I prefer the non-licenced concept of DiRT), this is a huge difference.

    With this in mind, making 120km for DR and 120km of tiles for D4 feels incredibly counterproductive. I'm aware that resources are finite (although it feels like a lot of this game's budget went into promotion; I wonder if it returned it) and if stages or countries take so long to make, they have to ensure that the assets are reusable in future titles, surely?

    Also (personal opinion as someone who doesn't care for it), the 'wasted' resources spent on RX, Hillclimb and Landrush tracks.

    Another personal opinion: I'd rather see 40 unique kilometres from 2 locations than 30km from 3.
  • DidzisDidzis Member Race Engineer
    Roughly 120km of unique road in DR
    It's actually about 160km, if you count Pikes Peak (or about 140, if you don't)
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    DiRT2 | DiRT3 CE | DiRT Showdown | DiRT Rally | GRID | GRID2 | GRID Autosport
  • RodgerDaviesRodgerDavies Member Champion
    Didzis said:
    Roughly 120km of unique road in DR
    It's actually about 160km, if you count Pikes Peak (or about 140, if you don't)

    OK, about 140. I'd have included Pikes Peak if they had just split it up into sections, added pace notes and reverse options and called it Rally US. As it was, the three/four car, 1 track Hillclimb mode just felt like another 'bare minimum' game mode and struck me as another thing that made the last two games feel a bit like tech demos. Point stands that WRC7 has likely double the unique rally stage distance of each of the last two DiRT games.

  • dgeesi0dgeesi0 Member Champion
    I prefer the concept of Your Stage and I hope they continue with this direction, but I don't feel it's good enough at the moment. Crucially though, it's the same basic issue as Dirt Rally had: not enough unique kilometres of road.

    Roughly 120km of unique road in DR and, I would guess, there's a similar amount in D4. The quality of some of their countries and stages may be questionable (although the German, Polish, Monte Carlo and Mexico ones are definitely superb), but WRC7 must have double that at a conservative estimate (13 X 20km) and, whilst I appreciate that the game might not be to everyone's taste (and I prefer the non-licenced concept of DiRT), this is a huge difference.

    With this in mind, making 120km for DR and 120km of tiles for D4 feels incredibly counterproductive. I'm aware that resources are finite (although it feels like a lot of this game's budget went into promotion; I wonder if it returned it) and if stages or countries take so long to make, they have to ensure that the assets are reusable in future titles, surely?

    Also (personal opinion as someone who doesn't care for it), the 'wasted' resources spent on RX, Hillclimb and Landrush tracks.

    Another personal opinion: I'd rather see 40 unique kilometres from 2 locations than 30km from 3.
    Real life stages will always be loved more than any random track generated versions.true you wont know the corner coming on random generated Your Stage events but it doesnt inspire or have the soul of a actual real stage.that is a problem that will never be solved. regardless of tiles. that's why it should never be the main part of the game only a extra edition.hopefully codemasters realizes this before the competition take pole position in rally titles in the future.

    people want to rally in real events they want to feel like they doing what there heros do .

    its going to be interesting how codies progress with this for the next rally title will they try and get all the real stages or push on with yourstage for the main content. i hope they dont.
  • carpacarpa Member Race Steward
    SamRWD said:
    dgeesi0 said:
    I prefer the concept of Your Stage and I hope they continue with this direction, but I don't feel it's good enough at the moment. Crucially though, it's the same basic issue as Dirt Rally had: not enough unique kilometres of road.

    Roughly 120km of unique road in DR and, I would guess, there's a similar amount in D4. The quality of some of their countries and stages may be questionable (although the German, Polish, Monte Carlo and Mexico ones are definitely superb), but WRC7 must have double that at a conservative estimate (13 X 20km) and, whilst I appreciate that the game might not be to everyone's taste (and I prefer the non-licenced concept of DiRT), this is a huge difference.

    With this in mind, making 120km for DR and 120km of tiles for D4 feels incredibly counterproductive. I'm aware that resources are finite (although it feels like a lot of this game's budget went into promotion; I wonder if it returned it) and if stages or countries take so long to make, they have to ensure that the assets are reusable in future titles, surely?

    Also (personal opinion as someone who doesn't care for it), the 'wasted' resources spent on RX, Hillclimb and Landrush tracks.

    Another personal opinion: I'd rather see 40 unique kilometres from 2 locations than 30km from 3.
    Real life stages will always be loved more than any random track generated versions.true you wont know the corner coming on random generated Your Stage events but it doesnt inspire or have the soul of a actual real stage.that is a problem that will never be solved. regardless of tiles. that's why it should never be the main part of the game only a extra edition.hopefully codemasters realizes this before the competition take pole position in rally titles in the future.

    people want to rally in real events they want to feel like they doing what there heros do .

    its going to be interesting how codies progress with this for the next rally title will they try and get all the real stages or push on with yourstage for the main content. i hope they dont.
    That's one of opinions. Other think otherwise- rallying's SOUL and INSPIRATION you are mentioning are comming from NOT knowing the stage corner by corner.

    Unless we get real life number of real life full length stages we will end up with another DR, or vanilla RBR we will have every single corner is memorized and it is just becomes hotlapping. Might just as well disable co- driver.

    My opinion is that if we get multiple tiles that do not consist of a fragment of a road with multiple corners, but tiles with corners, straights, etc (so we can get two corners making "tightens" and "opens" corners etc) it would be more ideal for many of us. We would also probably need a separation of a road and surroundings, so those are generated separately (right now we can tell what's gonna happen after seeing certain tree etc), but right now it seems like we will get New Zealand DLC which is going to fail untill they fix physics, and I am not sure if they are going to do that.
    Your Stage, developed and improved, is the future of rally games in terms of longevity because it could be used to have new stages to introduce, and also a WRC-style rally where you get around 10-15 stages run twice with most of them generated. But YS will never be able to substitute for handcrafted real rally stages like the Turini or Sweet Lamb, because they're iconic and well known. I think YourStage is a tool that can make a difference but you cannot rely completely on it.
    "I race to win, of course. But even before of winning, I race to race. As fast as possible"
    - Gilles Villeneuve
  • SamRWDSamRWD Member Petrol Head
    carpa said:
    SamRWD said:
    dgeesi0 said:
    I prefer the concept of Your Stage and I hope they continue with this direction, but I don't feel it's good enough at the moment. Crucially though, it's the same basic issue as Dirt Rally had: not enough unique kilometres of road.

    Roughly 120km of unique road in DR and, I would guess, there's a similar amount in D4. The quality of some of their countries and stages may be questionable (although the German, Polish, Monte Carlo and Mexico ones are definitely superb), but WRC7 must have double that at a conservative estimate (13 X 20km) and, whilst I appreciate that the game might not be to everyone's taste (and I prefer the non-licenced concept of DiRT), this is a huge difference.

    With this in mind, making 120km for DR and 120km of tiles for D4 feels incredibly counterproductive. I'm aware that resources are finite (although it feels like a lot of this game's budget went into promotion; I wonder if it returned it) and if stages or countries take so long to make, they have to ensure that the assets are reusable in future titles, surely?

    Also (personal opinion as someone who doesn't care for it), the 'wasted' resources spent on RX, Hillclimb and Landrush tracks.

    Another personal opinion: I'd rather see 40 unique kilometres from 2 locations than 30km from 3.
    Real life stages will always be loved more than any random track generated versions.true you wont know the corner coming on random generated Your Stage events but it doesnt inspire or have the soul of a actual real stage.that is a problem that will never be solved. regardless of tiles. that's why it should never be the main part of the game only a extra edition.hopefully codemasters realizes this before the competition take pole position in rally titles in the future.

    people want to rally in real events they want to feel like they doing what there heros do .

    its going to be interesting how codies progress with this for the next rally title will they try and get all the real stages or push on with yourstage for the main content. i hope they dont.
    That's one of opinions. Other think otherwise- rallying's SOUL and INSPIRATION you are mentioning are comming from NOT knowing the stage corner by corner.

    Unless we get real life number of real life full length stages we will end up with another DR, or vanilla RBR we will have every single corner is memorized and it is just becomes hotlapping. Might just as well disable co- driver.

    My opinion is that if we get multiple tiles that do not consist of a fragment of a road with multiple corners, but tiles with corners, straights, etc (so we can get two corners making "tightens" and "opens" corners etc) it would be more ideal for many of us. We would also probably need a separation of a road and surroundings, so those are generated separately (right now we can tell what's gonna happen after seeing certain tree etc), but right now it seems like we will get New Zealand DLC which is going to fail untill they fix physics, and I am not sure if they are going to do that.
    Your Stage, developed and improved, is the future of rally games in terms of longevity because it could be used to have new stages to introduce, and also a WRC-style rally where you get around 10-15 stages run twice with most of them generated. But YS will never be able to substitute for handcrafted real rally stages like the Turini or Sweet Lamb, because they're iconic and well known. I think YourStage is a tool that can make a difference but you cannot rely completely on it.
    Sure, if Codies give us modding tools that let people import GPS data, community would make real world, real length tracks. Unless they do, we will be hotlapping, because they are not willing to invest time into making multiple 20- 40 km stages. We can get one, two 16 km long max. Rest will be chopping existing one, or two stages to make multiple short ones.

    Some prefer that, some prefer randomized stages that eventually YS could generate. I am glad Codies decided to invest into stage generation personally, but I understand that some people would rather have one real world stage chopped into smaller ones. Just different way of looking at the problem with different solution. That's why I replied to this thread, saying that one real life long stage chopped has more soul than randomized stage is true only to some.
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