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#WishlistWednesday - 20/05/2015

That time of the week again!

I'm gonna throw you a curve ball this week... 

This week you only have only ONE wish!

So make it count and tell us... What would you like adding, changing or improving in DiRT Rally?

(don't forget to drop your ideas in the suggestion box)

Former DiRT Community Manager, owner of the most bitchin community in the company

Twitter: justbiglee



  • SamRWDSamRWD Member Race Engineer
    edited May 2015
    My wish:
    - Physics revamp. (more here http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/6029/does-the-game-have-too-much-grip/p1). Also please read my post from here: http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/5760/dirt-rally-feedback-list , here it is:
    SamRWD said:
    OK I've tried to stay away from a RBR discussion here, but I need to adress this topic. I will actually start with another example to begin with:

    I've been "playing" flying simulators (rotary wing is my thing, fixed wing aircrafts are boring for me) since I got my first computer. Actually, there were helicopter "simulators" made for Amiga before, so it began even earlier for me. I've been playing pretty much RBR since it's release date (I was enjoying CMR series before). Now there is one common issue with all true, realistic simulators that makes them enjoyable for simulators enthusiasts, and makes them unnaproachable for everyone elese unless certain features are introduced. The term is:


    It takes a lot of time to learn how to fly (controll) a virtual helicopter. It is actually arguably more difficult than driving a car in RBR. It is certainly much more difficult than flying a real thing (as was mentioned by all real life helicopter pilots I came across). It takes just as much time to learn all the aircraft systems, instruments, procedures. It takes time to learn how to communicate with other pilots, air traffic control guys, etc. It takes time to be fluent with all above separately. Imagine how much time and effort it takes to get You to the point where You can do all of them at once.

    1How to approach learining curve, so casual players are attracted? Simplify each step (control, system, communication), make them automated, or remove something alltogether. If You don't, casual player will leave since they are not willing to spend time learning. They want to experience something that is extremally difficult and complex without much effort. They don't want 1/1 representation, they want an illusion. Example of such product: Microsoft Flight. Project dead and studio closed about two month after release (?) despite a great support from simulation crowd on a conceptual stage of game development. Developers did not listen/ care, casual players bought the game, but since their attention spawn is short, they moved over to other casual games. Dedicated simulation crowd did not care since the product did not appeal to them.
    2How to approach learning curve, so simulator enthusiasts are attracted? Make a realistic representation of each system, and let player explore and learn each one as the learning part is what simulator fans enjoy. Take that away, and customer will leave. This crowd wants 1/1 representation even, if it makes the experience more difficult than real life (since in a simulator You don't feel any forces with Your body, You get only visual imput i.e. when hovering a helicopter). They don't want any simplification, assists etc. They know that initially they are going to struggle, and they don't mind. The profficency progression is what they are about, that's the sattisfaction they're after. Example product: Microsoft Flight Simulator series, X- plane. Both products are still alive, both developers are still making money from simulator extensions (extension= pretty much a proffesionally made mod) made by independent studios via licence agreements.

    3How to approach learning curve, so both casual, and dedicated players can enjoy a product, and developer makes money? It is difficult, but can be done. First let's look what doesn't work- making a casual game and trying to add realistic features that are not 100% accurate since the platform was not ment to support those (complex) systems in the first place. There are multiple examples of those. Also making a 100% realistic platform won't work in a long perspective, since simmulation crowd is dedicated, but much smaller than casual players. I will expand on finantial aspect of this topic later on. There are two ways to provide both above principles:

    a) make two separate games
    b) make single realistic simulator, and add assists/ difficulty option

    It is easy to understand how a) will work. It is the most common approach. What is difficult about making a simulator is complexity of all the systems and features. In DiRT, that'd be mainly phyiscs. What's easy is- if You can make a realistic representation, You've succeeded. Casual games provide other challenges- game balance (You don't use real life data, but use a simplification that needs to be balanced, designed the right way). What is easy- all the features are simplified, less complex, and after right design choices are made, they don't take as much time to develop.

     As for b), there is a very important factor to understand- simulation crowd will stay away from casual games, since they hate the whole concept (I am sorry, but RBR crowd hates previous DiRT titles). On the other hand casual players not only don't mind a simulation approach if initial game options include "easy mode" (even by default), but will actually feel more immersed, since they are looking for an illusion. The whole concept of "I am driving a simulator, and I am good at it" is part of that illusion they are after.

    How does the whole thing transfer over to DiRT Rally?
    Make a realistic simulator, and THEN add an easy option on top of that. Does it mean the game will be "more difficult than real life" on realisic mode? YES, because You cannot experience any clues about what's going on with Your car other than visual clues and FFB. Getting a G force input with Your body is one of most important clues for real life drivers that we are missing in simulation.

    Now, let's talk money.
    We all must understand, that those products are not made "for fun", but those studios are running a business. They want money, so if they can release DiRT 4, and make a lot of $ from casual players, they will go down that road rather than making a simulator called DiRT Rally which will not give them as finantial benefits. Simulation crowd is dedicated, they are hungry for 1/1 simulator, but the initial revenue will not compare with DiRT 4 predictions. Combining both "realistic" and "easy" modes is a good way to combine $ income from both crowds. Since this board doesn't want to use subscribtion model (I expected dedicated simulation crowd will be willing to go down that road especially given current market situation in rally simulation departament, but I was wrong), that's the only realistic way for Codemasters to make it worth their time.

  • Madhun1967Madhun1967 Member Pit Crew
    physics patch please 
  • couger1981couger1981 Member Race Engineer
    Landrush please.
    Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull Racing 2018
    Member since 2011
    RIP Bianchi
    The Future is Now!

  • warpengagewarpengage Member Team Principal
    My main wish for this game is to have an open Custom Event mode, in which everything is available from the start and you have freedom of choice in that specific mode. What I mean is, basically, have all cars(fully upgraded, as they should be to represent their real-life counterparts), have all locations unlocked and it would be nice but not essential to have a good default repair team on that mode too. The idea would be to make custom event a simplified way of getting to the racing.
  • dgeesi0dgeesi0 Member Champion
    my lap times and others in the world shown with positions.i want to compete for the fastest times .i even have a video now which could be the fastest ever on one track but no one answers or clarifies the times ;( . people want to go fast,see where they place.

    can some simple table be knocked up updated real time or link to here with times for tracks and cars used. 
  • SkiddyMcCrashSkiddyMcCrash Member Champion
    Why can't you see your position after finishing a race? I can see where I placed overall. During the replay Press B, when the stage results screen appears Press Y. That shows you your world position, as well as your friends world position
    AMD [email protected]/EVGA GTX 1060 FTW/16gb RAM/OS - Win 10/Turtle Beach X11/360pad                                 View - Front Bumper Cam/No Assists

  • MastaVonBlastaMastaVonBlasta Member, Drivers Team Principal
    edited May 2015
    Why can't you see your position after finishing a race? I can see where I placed overall. During the replay Press B, when the stage results screen appears Press Y. That shows you your world position, as well as your friends world position
    This. I've seen that table when playing Career.

    My one wish...  Dynamic stage conditions
    - roads would change over time depending on number of cars that passes
    - previous weather would have an effect on how and how quickly the stage conditions would change
    - a bit of randomly generated holes and ruts
    - feedback from safety crews to help the player gauge how much to push
    - pace note additions to cover safety crew findings
    - mud dragged onto tarmac
    - gravel cleaning, less grip for the first car on the road, gradual increase in grip levels if you stay on the line

    (when it comes to updates to the physics and car handling I only see a need for some tweaks, no overhaul is needed in my opnion)
    Twitter: MastaVonBlasta ¬ Bobby K fan ¬ Next one will be the one.
  • usoldierusoldier Member New Car Smell
    I wish for a flat small training circuit, maybe with dirt/gravel/tarmac variants. 
  • MsportdanMsportdan Member New Car Smell
    edited May 2015
    Apart from the obvious handling **** on tarmac etc. Replays available at any point not just after a race. I ask because these during a stage learning process, can be useful to help you figure your lines.
  • AreyoubenAreyouben Member Race Engineer
    For a simple one: Roof camera! :smile: 
  • gfRallygfRally Member Champion
    Yup saved replays and user placable camera.

    twitch: gfrally    twitter: gflinch

  • SkiddyMcCrashSkiddyMcCrash Member Champion
    Msportdan said:
    Apart from the obvious handling **** on tarmac etc. Replays available at any point not just after a race. I ask because these during a stage learning process, can be useful to help you figure your lines.
    When I first started playing racing games I learned so much from watching my replays and comparing them to what you see in real world rally footage
    AMD [email protected]/EVGA GTX 1060 FTW/16gb RAM/OS - Win 10/Turtle Beach X11/360pad                                 View - Front Bumper Cam/No Assists

  • jdubracerjdubracer Member New Car Smell
    wouldn't mind seeing a Lancia 037 
    the last ever rwd car to win a rally world championship
  • Adrian97fsAdrian97fs Member Unleaded
    Modding support.
  • KrusiKrusi Member Unleaded
    My wish:

    Deformable sidebanks (only like 1 metre near the road)
  • SamRWDSamRWD Member Race Engineer
    zenatez said:

    This is a good comparison with real life and the game. less grippy and more power, harder to master but in the end more control. :smile: 
    Thank You for this video!!!!!!!
  • ShoMVShoMV Member New Car Smell
    Greetings Codies,

    first of all, the game is awesome! I think you are going/driving in the right direction :)

    There are 2 tweaks I`d like to be changed in the game:

    1. driver view "camera shake" to be shaking (a tiny) little bit more - current 100% on slider still feels somehow bland to me

    2. I am a wheel user and in-game wheel acts way too sensitive around +- 10° - hopping left/right 25°-30° all the time even tho my wheel is (almost) stationary. I have linearity set on 0.

    Thanks. Best
  • Madhun1967Madhun1967 Member Pit Crew
  • BigbazzBigbazz Member, Drivers Unleaded

    1. Clutch - In Sequential mode... Very important!

    2. Leaderboards from anywhere! - Those leaderboards we see at the end of each stage to compare with our friends/community, let us access them from the main menu!

    3. More FOV options, seat adjustment etc! Let us get dialled into the car the way we like.

    That's it for now, I put more hours into Dirt Rally in 2 weeks than I have in Dirt 2 after 5 years, and I considered Dirt 2 one of my favourite rally games. The simulation aspect is the way forward, I'm just waiting for that improved FFB.

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