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ERS Simulation

pijinpijin Member Race Engineer
Been asking for this for years, I sincerely hope F1 2018 finally has proper ERS simulation. Why? Because its realistic, and adds immersion, and crucially, is a major part of a drivers toolkit in terms of attack and defense this year. The cars make nearly 1000 hp, but can't always have that much power as we do in the game. In races, they have maybe 800-850 in general, based on the ERS settings. They manage and deploy, and its not as simple as just having all the power whenever you floor it. Now, the real life F1 has an insanely intense and complicated system for this, as modeled in Assetto Corsa (I think?), but we can have a far simpler setup, that will definitely make it more exciting.

Simply put, the ERS should be a STRAT 1-STRAT 5 option set. And they work and are used as described.

STRAT 1 (High Recovery) - High recovery mode, you'd use when you are managing a gap. Battery level charges by maybe 15-20% a lap (based on quality of ERS, can be developed in career mode). Derates quite aggressively, maybe 150-200 meters before braking zone (again based on ERS quality). Have about 10% less power overall compared to STRAT 3.

STRAT 2 (Mild Recovery) - Mid level recovery mode. Again, you'd use this when managing a gap, though can't afford to give away as much lap time as STRAT 1 would. Battery charges by maybe 5-10% a lap. Moderate derates. 100-150 meters before braking zone. Have 5% less power than STRAT 3.

STRAT 3 (Neither boost nor recovery) - Default mode. Those who don't want to bother can just leave it in STRAT 3 and be fine. Doesn't charge or discharge battery. Derates 50-100 meters before braking zone.

STRAT 4 (Mild Boost)  - Mid level boost. When you are pushing, but not yet close enough to make an overtake. Battery discharges by 5-10% a lap. Overall HP about 5% more than STRAT 3. Derates 25-50 meters before braking zone.

STRAT 5 (High Boost) - What you use for overtaking, an outlap/inlap and the race start. Max battery power. Discharges battery by 15-20% a lap. HP about 10% more than STRAT 3. No derates.

Now, if any of these modes result in you using up all the battery, it will automatically go to STRAT 1 and be locked until you get to at least 25% charge. If you hit 100%, it will automatically go to STRAT 3 if you aren't already there. There will be an Overtake button which will activate STRAT 5, either while it is depressed, or until you brake.

This is about as simple as you can make the system. I know real ERS uses braking and stuff but thats too complex. A simple 5 mode system is perfect for the level of complexity of this game.

Comments

  • marosimarkmarosimark Member Wheel Nut
    wow. Amazing stuff, hope something like this will be implemented
  • haydn23haydn23 Member Team Principal
    This is a very well planned out idea however I have a few issues with this. First of all strat 1 should recover more than 15-20% a lap. That will take us about 7 laps to get back to full charge lol. It should recover more between 35-55% depending on track and car. However Strat 5 should also use more, as we're going full out here and we see in real life they use about 80% being on top power mode for the whole lap (using sebs pole lap from today as reference). The Strat 5 was actually quite well worked out because that would mean the standard mode is around 140-145hp which I would assume is closer to real life. 

    Also another thing strat 1 should be locked in until you have charge not until 25% lol. If ur saying that, it means that ur gonna be on minimum power for 1.5 laps which is quite  alot when u think about it, that'll be costing you atleast a second a lap if not more especially on power hungry circuits where you won't recover much either like Austria. 

    My personal addition is on push to pass it uses start 5 and also uses max mix (that would have previously only been available in quali).

    Tbf those are only minor things which can be hard to truthfully actually get a proper answer to without testing in-game.; Some great ideas tho man! Will link this to my thread

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD4KthnFwavKbaHfHtz5ulg
    Steam: Haydn02  Xbox: Sid3ways Nismo PSN: Jenbut21 Twitter: @SidewaysNismo Uplay: H4ydn02
  • senna94f1senna94f1 Member New Car Smell
    I've asked for that for 3 years, they have it in iracing and the brilliant modelled Ferrari 17' f1 car in assetto corsa ,and boy is that car very realistic , ,

    thats my my hope for f1 2018
  • pijinpijin Member Race Engineer
    edited April 15
    haydn23 said:
    This is a very well planned out idea however I have a few issues with this. First of all strat 1 should recover more than 15-20% a lap. That will take us about 7 laps to get back to full charge lol. It should recover more between 35-55% depending on track and car. However Strat 5 should also use more, as we're going full out here and we see in real life they use about 80% being on top power mode for the whole lap (using sebs pole lap from today as reference). The Strat 5 was actually quite well worked out because that would mean the standard mode is around 140-145hp which I would assume is closer to real life. 

    Also another thing strat 1 should be locked in until you have charge not until 25% lol. If ur saying that, it means that ur gonna be on minimum power for 1.5 laps which is quite  alot when u think about it, that'll be costing you atleast a second a lap if not more especially on power hungry circuits where you won't recover much either like Austria. 

    My personal addition is on push to pass it uses start 5 and also uses max mix (that would have previously only been available in quali).

    Tbf those are only minor things which can be hard to truthfully actually get a proper answer to without testing in-game.; Some great ideas tho man! Will link this to my thread

    Totally , a lot depends on testing and fine tuning. Most of the exact numbers are just guesstimates to give an idea of exactly what it would do. The strat 1 lock is just an idea so that you don’t keep using strat 5 even after your battery is dead, or in a way you can’t shstain. That being said, the charge and discharge rates would probably scale for 25-50-100 races, and basically just be unlimited strat 5 for sprint races. 

    Mad for OT, I agree it should auto use rich mix as well, but still don’t think it should use max. I really don’t think F1 teams actually ever use quali mode during a race, no matter how much it is really necessary. Those modes are limited to 2 or 3 laps per weekend, according to Merc and their customers. And those are usually used in Q2 and Q3.
  • FRACTUREDFRACTURED Member, Drivers Champion
    pijin said: ...a lot depends on testing 
    Uh - Oh
    VIOLENCE. SPEED. MOMENTUM.

    The two time, 2016/2018 F1 Beta testing Champion of the World.
  • kevinkirkkevinkirk Member Team Principal
    I honestly dont think the games physics and function is smart enough to actually handle car managing and managing deployment options like that.  We are talking about a game that is only able to have a couple of 1-10 sliders per page for setting up a F1 car. Although it was better last game, Even then the game is only able to let those sliders  have only the slightest actual effect on the car, with some sliders effect not even noticeable at all.I could argue it really cant seem to even handle what the effect should be when simply changing fuel mix from low to high on the car. According to the game the difference between low and high mix is the throttle feeling either on low, less sensitive or on high, more sensitive. Thats just either lazy design or all the game can handle simulating. One of the two
    Xbox one, controller
  • pijinpijin Member Race Engineer
    True, I can foresee a fair number glitches, especially online.. like being stuck in STRAT 1 but the battery doesn’t charge or something linke that. Still, I think it would add a lot to the quality and immersion of the game.
  • marsal79marsal79 Member, Drivers Wheel Nut
    oh please no.. what if i get 150hp more in a corner like verstappen km bahrain  :hushed:
  • lolschrauberlolschrauber Member Race Engineer
    senna94f1 said:
    I've asked for that for 3 years, they have it in iracing and the brilliant modelled Ferrari 17' f1 car in assetto corsa ,and boy is that car very realistic , ,

    thats my my hope for f1 2018
    It's also ultra difficult to get the most out of it over the course of a long race.

    I'm already running out of buttons, too. Screw that stupid menu for settings.
    Does your life have a TV-Cam? No, it doesn't.
  • haydn23haydn23 Member Team Principal
    Seriously said:
    It's also ultra difficult to get the most out of it over the course of a long race.

    I'm already running out of buttons, too. Screw that stupid menu for settings.
    They could add this maybe to the MFD and then you wouldn't need to assign more buttons.


    In all honesty I thought that's what he meant anyway lol. Like 2 or 5 extra buttons? Pads don't have 2 extra buttons to use neither do most wheels lol
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCD4KthnFwavKbaHfHtz5ulg
    Steam: Haydn02  Xbox: Sid3ways Nismo PSN: Jenbut21 Twitter: @SidewaysNismo Uplay: H4ydn02
  • 1512marcel1512marcel Member, Drivers Team Principal
    Seriously said:
    senna94f1 said:
    I've asked for that for 3 years, they have it in iracing and the brilliant modelled Ferrari 17' f1 car in assetto corsa ,and boy is that car very realistic , ,

    thats my my hope for f1 2018
    It's also ultra difficult to get the most out of it over the course of a long race.

    I'm already running out of buttons, too. Screw that stupid menu for settings.

    They could add this maybe to the MFD and then you wouldn't need to assign more buttons.

    I ran out of Button in 2016

    If you use ABS or Traction Control, you are no longer a racing driver.

    1512Marcel

    If I get a few more questions about my driving style I think I headbutt someone.

    Max Verstappen

  • pijinpijin Member Race Engineer
    senna94f1 said:
    I've asked for that for 3 years, they have it in iracing and the brilliant modelled Ferrari 17' f1 car in assetto corsa ,and boy is that car very realistic , ,

    thats my my hope for f1 2018
    It's also ultra difficult to get the most out of it over the course of a long race.

    I'm already running out of buttons, too. Screw that stupid menu for settings.
    You mean the MFD as the "stupid menu"? I think its just fine.. I mean the only extra button you'll need is overtake.. 
  • vincenzo19vincenzo19 Member Wheel Nut
    pijin said:
    Been asking for this for years, I sincerely hope F1 2018 finally has proper ERS simulation. Why? Because its realistic, and adds immersion, and crucially, is a major part of a drivers toolkit in terms of attack and defense this year. The cars make nearly 1000 hp, but can't always have that much power as we do in the game. In races, they have maybe 800-850 in general, based on the ERS settings. They manage and deploy, and its not as simple as just having all the power whenever you floor it. Now, the real life F1 has an insanely intense and complicated system for this, as modeled in Assetto Corsa (I think?), but we can have a far simpler setup, that will definitely make it more exciting.

    Simply put, the ERS should be a STRAT 1-STRAT 5 option set. And they work and are used as described.

    STRAT 1 (High Recovery) - High recovery mode, you'd use when you are managing a gap. Battery level charges by maybe 15-20% a lap (based on quality of ERS, can be developed in career mode). Derates quite aggressively, maybe 150-200 meters before braking zone (again based on ERS quality). Have about 10% less power overall compared to STRAT 3.

    STRAT 2 (Mild Recovery) - Mid level recovery mode. Again, you'd use this when managing a gap, though can't afford to give away as much lap time as STRAT 1 would. Battery charges by maybe 5-10% a lap. Moderate derates. 100-150 meters before braking zone. Have 5% less power than STRAT 3.

    STRAT 3 (Neither boost nor recovery) - Default mode. Those who don't want to bother can just leave it in STRAT 3 and be fine. Doesn't charge or discharge battery. Derates 50-100 meters before braking zone.

    STRAT 4 (Mild Boost)  - Mid level boost. When you are pushing, but not yet close enough to make an overtake. Battery discharges by 5-10% a lap. Overall HP about 5% more than STRAT 3. Derates 25-50 meters before braking zone.

    STRAT 5 (High Boost) - What you use for overtaking, an outlap/inlap and the race start. Max battery power. Discharges battery by 15-20% a lap. HP about 10% more than STRAT 3. No derates.

    Now, if any of these modes result in you using up all the battery, it will automatically go to STRAT 1 and be locked until you get to at least 25% charge. If you hit 100%, it will automatically go to STRAT 3 if you aren't already there. There will be an Overtake button which will activate STRAT 5, either while it is depressed, or until you brake.

    This is about as simple as you can make the system. I know real ERS uses braking and stuff but thats too complex. A simple 5 mode system is perfect for the level of complexity of this game.

    Fantastic idea, but honestly...an F1 game series that's never even had telemetry... I would not get your hopes up my friend.
  • Far1anFar1an Member Unleaded
    Hey @Faya you think any kind of ERS Simulation seems possible or the Dev know about the community wish? :)

    Like the Idea! That would made races even more interessting. The current solution seems to me being way to easy. Just add +3 Rounds and you can run rich mix nearly the whole race.
  • pijinpijin Member Race Engineer
    Fantastic idea, but honestly...an F1 game series that's never even had telemetry... I would not get your hopes up my friend.
    I don't necessarily have high hopes, mainly since I wrote a similar piece before the releases of 2016 and 2017 before, and while the community response was great, there was no acknowledgment from developers. That and all past F1 Game survey's have had ERS as one of the potential improvements you could vote on, but this one hasn't.. So that either means its completely off the table, or they've implemented it and there's no use asking about it. The optimist in me hopes its the latter, but the realist thinks its the former.
  • senna94f1senna94f1 Member New Car Smell
    edited April 20
    pijin said:
    Been asking for this for years, I sincerely hope F1 2018 finally has proper ERS simulation. Why? Because its realistic, and adds immersion, and crucially, is a major part of a drivers toolkit in terms of attack and defense this year. The cars make nearly 1000 hp, but can't always have that much power as we do in the game. In races, they have maybe 800-850 in general, based on the ERS settings. They manage and deploy, and its not as simple as just having all the power whenever you floor it. Now, the real life F1 has an insanely intense and complicated system for this, as modeled in Assetto Corsa (I think?), but we can have a far simpler setup, that will definitely make it more exciting.

    Simply put, the ERS should be a STRAT 1-STRAT 5 option set. And they work and are used as described.

    STRAT 1 (High Recovery) - High recovery mode, you'd use when you are managing a gap. Battery level charges by maybe 15-20% a lap (based on quality of ERS, can be developed in career mode). Derates quite aggressively, maybe 150-200 meters before braking zone (again based on ERS quality). Have about 10% less power overall compared to STRAT 3.

    STRAT 2 (Mild Recovery) - Mid level recovery mode. Again, you'd use this when managing a gap, though can't afford to give away as much lap time as STRAT 1 would. Battery charges by maybe 5-10% a lap. Moderate derates. 100-150 meters before braking zone. Have 5% less power than STRAT 3.

    STRAT 3 (Neither boost nor recovery) - Default mode. Those who don't want to bother can just leave it in STRAT 3 and be fine. Doesn't charge or discharge battery. Derates 50-100 meters before braking zone.

    STRAT 4 (Mild Boost)  - Mid level boost. When you are pushing, but not yet close enough to make an overtake. Battery discharges by 5-10% a lap. Overall HP about 5% more than STRAT 3. Derates 25-50 meters before braking zone.

    STRAT 5 (High Boost) - What you use for overtaking, an outlap/inlap and the race start. Max battery power. Discharges battery by 15-20% a lap. HP about 10% more than STRAT 3. No derates.

    Now, if any of these modes result in you using up all the battery, it will automatically go to STRAT 1 and be locked until you get to at least 25% charge. If you hit 100%, it will automatically go to STRAT 3 if you aren't already there. There will be an Overtake button which will activate STRAT 5, either while it is depressed, or until you brake.

    This is about as simple as you can make the system. I know real ERS uses braking and stuff but thats too complex. A simple 5 mode system is perfect for the level of complexity of this game.

    Fantastic idea, but honestly...an F1 game series that's never even had telemetry... I would not get your hopes up my friend.
    I have repeatly suggested this from 2015 , why iracing has had it for a long while and assetto corsa has this for over a year on the ps4 or consoles games have it why can't it be put into 2018!

    thats been my only grip about codies f1 ,and are way behind in stuff that reflects f1.i think if this is not put into f1 2018!a part of me will be disappointed ,
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