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Impossible to keep up with the AI race pace solely due to high tyre inner carcass temperatures.

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Comments

  • CaptainAustCaptainAust Member Petrol Head
    Thats been my argument in a few other threads too,   like right after a safety car when the ai take off like they have race heated tyres,  ppl are confusing the issue  
  • Davidepotenza19Davidepotenza19 Member New Car Smell
    I have already adapted my driving style because I had problems also in circuits like Barcelona, Japan, Brazil and others but just changing the driving style I managed to improve just because I do not wait for the world to change for me.
    But in Singapore and Monaco, nothing changes even with the set-up
  • ZachrulezZachrulez Member Wheel Nut
    Freddus said:
    @Freddus

    I'm not saying that there should not be overheating tires
    I'm saying that we also use a pad to want a way to play without having FORCE this overheating as in tracks like Monaco and Singapore is almost impossible
    I do not think I say something so strange.
    Or Codemasters admits to having made a game that favors users who have a steering wheel is also good for me as long as they put in the driving aid the possibility to disable the overheating of the tires
    Because what I want to do to make everyone understand that regardless of the difficulty circuits like Monaco and Singapore are almost all unworkable for users pads especially for those who make the race at 100%
    You are actually saying something very strange. Here is what you are saying: "I don't want an option to adjust the AI; I want an option to adjust the tyre heating model."

    Im absolutely perplexed as to why you won't drop the AI. There is a slider for that for a reason. 

    And no, the game doesn't favour wheel users. If you overdrive the car you will overheat the tyres, even on a wheel. 
    Ok here's the thing.

    AI Pace is about 1:21 at Monaco on 0 with overheating fronts I do about 1:19s so it's 'doable'
    AI pace is about 1:13-1:14 on legend on 95

    That separates those 2 levels by about 6-7 seconds. I'm not keen on doing the math here but to get the AI to my overheat pace I'd have to drop the AI pace about 2 seconds from 0. Maybe somewhere in 20-30 difficulty.

    It should be obvious by now that this is not a reasonable solution you are presenting. You are telling a player who is about 95 skill on most tracks to drop down that far to have a 'competitive' race but there are many factors that make the whole concept ridiculous one of which is that the race is going to play out in a very unrealistic way and overheating tyres create other problems like massive under steer which can lead to hitting walls which leads to chipped wings which leads to unplanned pit stops which adds an unpredictable degree of difficulty.

    So really you might think your suggestion sounds reasonable, but it's going to be a combination of unenjoyable and unrealistic... neither of which controller users who are otherwise skilled at the game really want.
  • FreddusFreddus Member Wheel Nut
    I have already adapted my driving style because I had problems also in circuits like Barcelona, Japan, Brazil and others but just changing the driving style I managed to improve just because I do not wait for the world to change for me.
    But in Singapore and Monaco, nothing changes even with the set-up
    Maybe the AI is just a little too quick at those two tracks. You do realise that there is nothing stopping you from dropping the AI a little. 
  • Davidepotenza19Davidepotenza19 Member New Car Smell
    Guys okay so I tried to explain that it was enough to add more help to make everyone happy more because we are talking about a game that most people play with the pad.
    So I surrender in much the same way I think others think otherwise that's okay.
    I hope that Codemasters take the right choice is in case they do not add this help will mean that certainly many to fully enjoy this game will be forced to buy a steering wheel
  • FreddusFreddus Member Wheel Nut
    edited September 13
    Zachrulez said:
    Freddus said:
    @Freddus

    I'm not saying that there should not be overheating tires
    I'm saying that we also use a pad to want a way to play without having FORCE this overheating as in tracks like Monaco and Singapore is almost impossible
    I do not think I say something so strange.
    Or Codemasters admits to having made a game that favors users who have a steering wheel is also good for me as long as they put in the driving aid the possibility to disable the overheating of the tires
    Because what I want to do to make everyone understand that regardless of the difficulty circuits like Monaco and Singapore are almost all unworkable for users pads especially for those who make the race at 100%
    You are actually saying something very strange. Here is what you are saying: "I don't want an option to adjust the AI; I want an option to adjust the tyre heating model."

    Im absolutely perplexed as to why you won't drop the AI. There is a slider for that for a reason. 

    And no, the game doesn't favour wheel users. If you overdrive the car you will overheat the tyres, even on a wheel. 
    Ok here's the thing.

    AI Pace is about 1:21 at Monaco on 0 with overheating fronts I do about 1:19s so it's 'doable'
    AI pace is about 1:13-1:14 on legend on 95

    That separates those 2 levels by about 6-7 seconds. I'm not keen on doing the math here but to get the AI to my overheat pace I'd have to drop the AI pace about 2 seconds from 0. Maybe somewhere in 20-30 difficulty.

    It should be obvious by now that this is not a reasonable solution you are presenting. You are telling a player who is about 95 skill on most tracks to drop down that far to have a 'competitive' race but there are many factors that make the whole concept ridiculous one of which is that the race is going to play out in a very unrealistic way and overheating tyres create other problems like massive under steer which can lead to hitting walls which leads to chipped wings which leads to unplanned pit stops which adds an unpredictable degree of difficulty.

    So really you might think your suggestion sounds reasonable, but it's going to be a combination of unenjoyable and unrealistic... neither of which controller users who are otherwise skilled at the game really want.
    Is the tyre heating unrealistic in this game at Monaco compared to real life? If not than maybe the AI is unrealistic. There is a reason why the AI comes with a difficulty slider. 

    Clearly if the AI are doing 1:13s then that's unrealistic given that this year the fastest lap at Monaco was a mid 1:14. 

    If if you drop the AI to more realistic levels you won't overheat the tyres.
  • ZachrulezZachrulez Member Wheel Nut
    edited September 13
    Freddus said:
    Is the tyre heating unrealistic in this game at Monaco compared to real life? If not than maybe the AI is unrealistic. There is a reason why the AI comes with a difficulty slider. 
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the tyre heating at Monaco gets nowhere near overheating IRL. So it's definitely an issue with the temperature system vs controller.

    I also struggle at Singapore but I can at least understand why temperature is a problem there. I don't understand why Monaco is so unbalanced on controller.
  • CaptainAustCaptainAust Member Petrol Head
    Zachrulez said:
    Freddus said:
    @Freddus

    I'm not saying that there should not be overheating tires
    I'm saying that we also use a pad to want a way to play without having FORCE this overheating as in tracks like Monaco and Singapore is almost impossible
    I do not think I say something so strange.
    Or Codemasters admits to having made a game that favors users who have a steering wheel is also good for me as long as they put in the driving aid the possibility to disable the overheating of the tires
    Because what I want to do to make everyone understand that regardless of the difficulty circuits like Monaco and Singapore are almost all unworkable for users pads especially for those who make the race at 100%
    You are actually saying something very strange. Here is what you are saying: "I don't want an option to adjust the AI; I want an option to adjust the tyre heating model."

    Im absolutely perplexed as to why you won't drop the AI. There is a slider for that for a reason. 

    And no, the game doesn't favour wheel users. If you overdrive the car you will overheat the tyres, even on a wheel. 
    Ok here's the thing.

    AI Pace is about 1:21 at Monaco on 0 with overheating fronts I do about 1:19s so it's 'doable'
    AI pace is about 1:13-1:14 on legend on 95

    That separates those 2 levels by about 6-7 seconds. I'm not keen on doing the math here but to get the AI to my overheat pace I'd have to drop the AI pace about 2 seconds from 0. Maybe somewhere in 20-30 difficulty.

    It should be obvious by now that this is not a reasonable solution you are presenting. You are telling a player who is about 95 skill on most tracks to drop down that far to have a 'competitive' race but there are many factors that make the whole concept ridiculous one of which is that the race is going to play out in a very unrealistic way and overheating tyres create other problems like massive under steer which can lead to hitting walls which leads to chipped wings which leads to unplanned pit stops which adds an unpredictable degree of difficulty.

    So really you might think your suggestion sounds reasonable, but it's going to be a combination of unenjoyable and unrealistic... neither of which controller users who are otherwise skilled at the game really want.
    Youre assuming that the ai suffer from tyre wear which i dont think they do really, i normally play at 94 - 96% difficultly on all tracks with a wheel and have no problems turning 1:12s with a wheel or the pad. People want a more realistic simulation game, so codemasters add more realistic game play, people refuse to adapt and then complain. Yes, the game rewards wheel players, but not because there is a problem in the games tyre modelling but because uding a wheel results in smoother driving. Lets not forget that the cheapest supported wheel is prob only a small cost over buying a new controller (which we've all done) yet offers 4 times the driving experience. If you refuse (or cant for some reason) buy a wheel then dont complain about the coding of a driving game, and if you must, why dont you campain for codemasters to have a 2017/2018 tyre model setting that way you could choose the 2017 non carcass temp tyre and play happy. Otherwise   again,  adapt or be left behind 
  • Davidepotenza19Davidepotenza19 Member New Car Smell
    You just can not understand that the driving style adapts it but the problem persists in those two tracks.
    Then the problem of having a steering wheel is not just the price but also the space.
    We all want a more realistic game but first of all it must be playable
    I'm sorry but we can not understand each other very probably so it's useless to go on with this discussion.
    Again I hope Codemasters takes the right choice
  • ZachrulezZachrulez Member Wheel Nut
    edited September 13
    The point I'm making is that to be 'competitive' at monaco I would need to turn the difficulty down that much. It's obviously a really flippant suggestion at a solution for the problem. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to be able to actually be competitive at Monaco. Being able to manage the temps somehow in a competitive way is all us poor controller users who can't figure this out want. I'll just say it now but no amount of management is going to allow me to be competitive at Monaco. My only option without any of that would be to buy a wheel. (Which is not going to be practical for me for a good while yet.)

    Honestly the core problem here is that they developed this tyre system without the ability to turn it off. That should have been one of the first things that was added to the game with the temperature system. (What does it matter if I turn the temperature system off when playing offline if it means that I'm satisfied with the game?)

    If they're not going to do that then see paragraph 1. Also as a side thought when do you ever see someone stress their tyres so hard that their pace drops sharply by 3-5 seconds a lap in F1? You don't.
  • CaptainAustCaptainAust Member Petrol Head
    this is like buying a game thats optimised for VR then complaining to the developers that the games doesnt play as well when not using VR.
    Youre asking for a realistic driving sim but wanting to use non realistic equipment, you cant have it both ways. You either buy a wheel and a fold away stand, ask for a 2017/2018 tyre model setting, or go play first person shooters... You cant have everything. You want codemasters to change the game based on your 2 worst tracks,, what if another pad player can do those tracks ok but have 2 or 3 different tracks that are the problem??  
  • FreddusFreddus Member Wheel Nut
    You just can not understand that the driving style adapts it but the problem persists in those two tracks.
    Then the problem of having a steering wheel is not just the price but also the space.
    We all want a more realistic game but first of all it must be playable
    I'm sorry but we can not understand each other very probably so it's useless to go on with this discussion.
    Again I hope Codemasters takes the right choice
    When you make a game like this there will always have to be compromises. As I've said before the tyre heating model in the game is more forgiving than in real life, and I'm sure that there are hardcore sim racers who would like the tyre heating and resulting loss of grip to be even closer to reality. Are they going to get it? I think not because then pad users would be up in arms about it. So they have to be happy with a compromise.

    Thats just the way it has to be and it shouldn't be an issue since you've got other options to cater to your abilities and input situation. Plus I think it's good to be flexible in life instead of having a fixed mindset where the AI has to be 110 and come hell or high water it's going to remain on 110.
  • ZachrulezZachrulez Member Wheel Nut
    edited September 13
    I never asked for a tyre temperature system btw. Just for people who are keeping score. (Since the guy above thought it was worth writing what's above me.)
  • Davidepotenza19Davidepotenza19 Member New Car Smell

    In fact, the problems all have on Monaco and Singapore.
    And then you can not force a person to buy the right equipment to play if instead Codemasters says that I can do it with the pad.
    Because I should buy a steering wheel on 20 tracks 18 I can make the most of the difficulty so I do not need the steering wheel.
    There is obviously a problem on these two tracks for users pad you do not want to recognize for me is not a problem because it will mean that next year I will buy a steering wheel but I'm sorry for all those people who do not have the opportunity to take a steering wheel.
  • Davidepotenza19Davidepotenza19 Member New Car Smell
    @Freddus
    But who says that we must ALWAYS make compromises.
    Only we pad users have to make compromises and too many.
    We're just saying that 2 tracks out of 21 are impossible to play (whatever the level of play so maybe understand that the level has nothing to do because I can play even at level 0 my tires overheat the same and the car when the tires I'm 110 degrees becomes unmanageable)
  • CaptainAustCaptainAust Member Petrol Head
    @Zachrulez so the fact that you cant do competitive times is codemasters fault??  again i can race on pad at 95% at Monaco and keep pace with where my Renault should be, yes the tyres overheat a little but its a street circuit. lets say for arguments sake 50% play on wheel and 50 on pad,,, codemasters change the tyre model because the pad players complain,, leaving half the games players to do what??? if im racing at 110% difficulty and a tyre model adjustment all of a sudden makes it easier for me, where do i go from there? i cant increase the difficulty anymore than max. if you need to reduce the difficulty by more than 10% to be competitive then the game isnt the problem. 
  • Davidepotenza19Davidepotenza19 Member New Car Smell
    Codemasters should not penalize anyone should just add help to the guide for pad users.
    so who wants it active and who does not want it does not activate it.
    I believe it is the most just and democratic thing
  • CaptainAustCaptainAust Member Petrol Head
    didnt i just say that??

    ...........................
  • FreddusFreddus Member Wheel Nut
    @Freddus
    But who says that we must ALWAYS make compromises.
    Only we pad users have to make compromises and too many.
    We're just saying that 2 tracks out of 21 are impossible to play (whatever the level of play so maybe understand that the level has nothing to do because I can play even at level 0 my tires overheat the same and the car when the tires I'm 110 degrees becomes unmanageable)
    Only pad players have to make compromises? So you wouldn't object to the tyre heating model in F1 2018 being more realistic, like it is in Asetto Corsa for example, where you can melt the tyres in one lap and basically spin out on every corner until the temperature drops again, which can take minutes? 

    Right then codemasters, can we please have an ultra realistic tyre heating model like in AC. And put it in the the next patch please. 
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