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Coffer Pit Crew

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Coffer
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  • Re: Med TC nerf affected PAD ability to compete in time trials

    The lack of common sense here is more disturbing than even some of the other nonsense I've seen on here.

    @GavGav983526
    It's a game. Games are supposed to reward skill. Assists go against that and exist to give a helping hand to those who really can't handle the challenge of driving without it, so they're naturally balanced in order to give players who take the harder route an advantage and those who don't an incentive to try and improve to such an extent that they can eventually perform well without it. You can even see this with the MP4/6 as the way the car shifts when you change gears with the paddles instead of the shifter is massively exaggerated to make up for the big time gain you otherwise get.

    That's literally all there is to it. Everything else is just pedantry and the thread really shouldn't have gone on for as long as it did.

    And no, drive the GT3s in AC with different levels of the traction control and then come back and tell me that it's always faster. You don't even have that going for you.

    Now stop shitposting.
  • Re: ANY Tips for the input lag, please?

    Ho3n3r said:
    Coffer said:
    Ho3n3r said:
    Celloman said:
    Coffer said:
    What do you people even do to get this sort of input lag? Year after year after year I see a few of you mention it, yet I've never had anything of the sort with my G27 and neither have any of my friends with their G27s and G29s. Are "better" wheels really so badly broken as to cause these issues? Odds are it's either that or CM's implementation of wheel support is broken for these wheels, but it would surprise me if it was the latter seeing as they've had David Greco on board for a while now, and he wouldn't find this sort of input lag acceptable. Given how flat-out broken rF2 was for my wheel, it's almost amusing at this point.
    If it's input lag, stating the controller might be helpful.

    Removing OC would help as well, but you won't want to hear that.
    I think people here are confused by what input lag means or what the original poster meant by it. The input lag can be both controller induced and by the game simply showing things slightly too delayed on screen (every game has some degree of lag). If it were a controller issue, it would be apparent in other sims as well. Input lag from game showing things delayed on screen is just as bad, as that means you'll have to compensate by turning and braking earlier than visual cue would indicate, or you'll miss your braking point. The human brain is extremely adaptive, but once you drive another sim with close to zero input lag like iRacing or rF2 and compare it to F1 2017, I think there is a clear difference.

    It is true that the in game steering wheel has animation lag (and IMO there should be no reason for it being there as much as it is at moment). But that's not the core issue, the core issue for me and @Ho3n3r is that it feels that you are missing braking points and things like lock-ups appear to show too late compared to what it should. The review from InsideSimRacing YouTube channel agrees with this by the way.

    I never noticed any input lag. You should check steam forums, not just for this game, but for a lot of others. CS:GO is a prime example.

    Game update = INSANE performance loss, according to the people. Like the input lag, I've never had this kinda problem in over 10 years of playing games on steam. I have no clue what the problem is, I'd simply say layer 8, but I can't even imagine how you could create these kinda issues.
    Some people are more sensitive to input lag than others. Just like some people cannot tell a difference between a 60 Hz and 144 Hz screen, while others can. Just because you can't tell it, doesn't mean it's not there or that it's not a problem.
    Well said. Sometimes I brake hard, and I already released the brakes but the front right locks up for a split second - how can that be explained by something other than input lag? T3 braking zone for Melbourne is a perfect example of where that happens a lot. I don't even know why people think there would be an animation delay on the steering wheel, but not on the tyres, why would they care about the one and not the other? Also, when I turn in, I can feel whel the car responds, and directional changes are extremely laggy, e.g. chicanes - for a few hundredths of a second when you've already started turning the other way, car is still clearly going the original direction.

    Also, my wheel is a TX 458 with F1 rim, which has no input lag in real sims, as you have menitoned. Other people suggesting an overclock might cause input lag - please never work on your PC by yourself, for your own safety, because you clearly don't understand how it works.

    Anyway, this thread wasn't about bashing, although it seems the fanboys have had their feelings hurt by it and trying to prove some or other obscure points, while I was merely trying to find a solution to this, as it's very clearly there, and I was hoping to solve it.
    >how can that be explained by something other than input lag?
    No grip. Play F1 2012 and try doing China's turn 1. Once your tyres are too worn, you no longer even need to touch the brakes to lock up if you turn enough. I even got this in 2017 with the Haas in turn 2 on laps where my front-left was severely overheated.

    >I don't even know why people think there would be an animation delay on the steering wheel, but not on the tyres
    The fact that you don't know this boggles my mind. The driver and steering wheel animations are the central part of the screen unless you're using an out-of-car camera, so you have to smooth them out if you don't want them to look as terrible as in an ISI-powered game. If you do this with the actual wheels, you'll either induce real input lag or make the driving look terrible via the wheels not being aligned with where the car is supposed to go. Once again, test out any game in the series, especially one of the old ones, and turn the wheel around while you're stationary. Keep an eye out for the front wheels and you'll see that they always respond instantly while the in-game wheel does not. In 2014 in particular, around the limit the in-game wheel turns much less, yet the front wheels continue to turn just fine, so it's not even just the responsiveness.

    >and directional changes are extremely laggy, e.g. chicanes - for a few hundredths of a second when you've already started turning the other way, car is still clearly going the original direction
    Hence my mention of the game potentially picking up your wheel and wrongly considering it to be a gamepad. Have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/6x2dmh/massive_issues_with_visual_input_delay_on_f1_2017/ .

    >my wheel is a TX 458 with F1 rim
    And it took you this long to mention it? A quick google search for "tx 458 f1 input lag" gives you plenty of pertinent results. It's an unsolved problem from 2016.

    >the fanboys
    If this is what you call fanboyism then I dread to think how sheltered your life must have been. Though this probably should've already been apparent from the fact that you couldn't even google those aforementioned words.

    - And it took you this long to mention it? A quick google search for "tx 458 f1 input lag" gives you plenty of pertinent results. It's an unsolved problem from 2016.

    So does "G27 f1 input lag" - what's your point? You own a G27 yet you say you have no input lag. I guess that shows you just don't notice it.

    > If this is what you call fanboyism then I dread to think how sheltered your life must have been. Though this probably should've already been apparent from the fact that you couldn't even google those aforementioned words.

    LOL. Ditto. See first comment.
    >You own a G27 yet you say you have no input lag.
    Just as others own T300s and TX 458s and have no input lag, which indicates that the problem is on your end. But sure, keep letting your ignorance guide you.
  • Re: ANY Tips for the input lag, please?

    Ho3n3r said:
    Celloman said:
    Coffer said:
    What do you people even do to get this sort of input lag? Year after year after year I see a few of you mention it, yet I've never had anything of the sort with my G27 and neither have any of my friends with their G27s and G29s. Are "better" wheels really so badly broken as to cause these issues? Odds are it's either that or CM's implementation of wheel support is broken for these wheels, but it would surprise me if it was the latter seeing as they've had David Greco on board for a while now, and he wouldn't find this sort of input lag acceptable. Given how flat-out broken rF2 was for my wheel, it's almost amusing at this point.
    If it's input lag, stating the controller might be helpful.

    Removing OC would help as well, but you won't want to hear that.
    I think people here are confused by what input lag means or what the original poster meant by it. The input lag can be both controller induced and by the game simply showing things slightly too delayed on screen (every game has some degree of lag). If it were a controller issue, it would be apparent in other sims as well. Input lag from game showing things delayed on screen is just as bad, as that means you'll have to compensate by turning and braking earlier than visual cue would indicate, or you'll miss your braking point. The human brain is extremely adaptive, but once you drive another sim with close to zero input lag like iRacing or rF2 and compare it to F1 2017, I think there is a clear difference.

    It is true that the in game steering wheel has animation lag (and IMO there should be no reason for it being there as much as it is at moment). But that's not the core issue, the core issue for me and @Ho3n3r is that it feels that you are missing braking points and things like lock-ups appear to show too late compared to what it should. The review from InsideSimRacing YouTube channel agrees with this by the way.

    I never noticed any input lag. You should check steam forums, not just for this game, but for a lot of others. CS:GO is a prime example.

    Game update = INSANE performance loss, according to the people. Like the input lag, I've never had this kinda problem in over 10 years of playing games on steam. I have no clue what the problem is, I'd simply say layer 8, but I can't even imagine how you could create these kinda issues.
    Some people are more sensitive to input lag than others. Just like some people cannot tell a difference between a 60 Hz and 144 Hz screen, while others can. Just because you can't tell it, doesn't mean it's not there or that it's not a problem.
    Well said. Sometimes I brake hard, and I already released the brakes but the front right locks up for a split second - how can that be explained by something other than input lag? T3 braking zone for Melbourne is a perfect example of where that happens a lot. I don't even know why people think there would be an animation delay on the steering wheel, but not on the tyres, why would they care about the one and not the other? Also, when I turn in, I can feel whel the car responds, and directional changes are extremely laggy, e.g. chicanes - for a few hundredths of a second when you've already started turning the other way, car is still clearly going the original direction.

    Also, my wheel is a TX 458 with F1 rim, which has no input lag in real sims, as you have menitoned. Other people suggesting an overclock might cause input lag - please never work on your PC by yourself, for your own safety, because you clearly don't understand how it works.

    Anyway, this thread wasn't about bashing, although it seems the fanboys have had their feelings hurt by it and trying to prove some or other obscure points, while I was merely trying to find a solution to this, as it's very clearly there, and I was hoping to solve it.
    >how can that be explained by something other than input lag?
    No grip. Play F1 2012 and try doing China's turn 1. Once your tyres are too worn, you no longer even need to touch the brakes to lock up if you turn enough. I even got this in 2017 with the Haas in turn 2 on laps where my front-left was severely overheated.

    >I don't even know why people think there would be an animation delay on the steering wheel, but not on the tyres
    The fact that you don't know this boggles my mind. The driver and steering wheel animations are the central part of the screen unless you're using an out-of-car camera, so you have to smooth them out if you don't want them to look as terrible as in an ISI-powered game. If you do this with the actual wheels, you'll either induce real input lag or make the driving look terrible via the wheels not being aligned with where the car is supposed to go. Once again, test out any game in the series, especially one of the old ones, and turn the wheel around while you're stationary. Keep an eye out for the front wheels and you'll see that they always respond instantly while the in-game wheel does not. In 2014 in particular, around the limit the in-game wheel turns much less, yet the front wheels continue to turn just fine, so it's not even just the responsiveness.

    >and directional changes are extremely laggy, e.g. chicanes - for a few hundredths of a second when you've already started turning the other way, car is still clearly going the original direction
    Hence my mention of the game potentially picking up your wheel and wrongly considering it to be a gamepad. Have a look at https://www.reddit.com/r/simracing/comments/6x2dmh/massive_issues_with_visual_input_delay_on_f1_2017/ .

    >my wheel is a TX 458 with F1 rim
    And it took you this long to mention it? A quick google search for "tx 458 f1 input lag" gives you plenty of pertinent results. It's an unsolved problem from 2016. The general consensus is that setting the maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 and checking where your wheel is plugged in both help a lot.

    >the fanboys
    If this is what you call fanboyism then I dread to think how sheltered your life must have been. Though this probably should've already been apparent from the fact that you couldn't even google those aforementioned words.


  • Re: ANY Tips for the input lag, please?

    Celloman said:
    Coffer said:
    What do you people even do to get this sort of input lag? Year after year after year I see a few of you mention it, yet I've never had anything of the sort with my G27 and neither have any of my friends with their G27s and G29s. Are "better" wheels really so badly broken as to cause these issues? Odds are it's either that or CM's implementation of wheel support is broken for these wheels, but it would surprise me if it was the latter seeing as they've had David Greco on board for a while now, and he wouldn't find this sort of input lag acceptable. Given how flat-out broken rF2 was for my wheel, it's almost amusing at this point.
    If it's input lag, stating the controller might be helpful.

    Removing OC would help as well, but you won't want to hear that.
    I think people here are confused by what input lag means or what the original poster meant by it. The input lag can be both controller induced and by the game simply showing things slightly too delayed on screen (every game has some degree of lag). If it were a controller issue, it would be apparent in other sims as well. Input lag from game showing things delayed on screen is just as bad, as that means you'll have to compensate by turning and braking earlier than visual cue would indicate, or you'll miss your braking point. The human brain is extremely adaptive, but once you drive another sim with close to zero input lag like iRacing or rF2 and compare it to F1 2017, I think there is a clear difference.

    It is true that the in game steering wheel has animation lag (and IMO there should be no reason for it being there as much as it is at moment). But that's not the core issue, the core issue for me and @Ho3n3r is that it feels that you are missing braking points and things like lock-ups appear to show too late compared to what it should.

    I never noticed any input lag. You should check steam forums, not just for this game, but for a lot of others. CS:GO is a prime example.

    Game update = INSANE performance loss, according to the people. Like the input lag, I've never had this kinda problem in over 10 years of playing games on steam. I have no clue what the problem is, I'd simply say layer 8, but I can't even imagine how you could create these kinda issues.
    Some people are more sensitive to input lag than others. Just like some people cannot tell a difference between a 60 Hz and 144 Hz screen, while others can. Just because you can't tell it, doesn't mean it's not there or that it's not a problem.
    >If it were a controller issue, it would be apparent in other sims as well.
    Unless your settings are bad for this game in particular or CM's implementation of support for the OP's wheel is faulty. There are several reports in this game, for instance, of wheels being recognized as gamepads instead, not to mention the people with CSWs occasionally complaining about this exact issue.

    >Input lag from game showing things delayed on screen is just as bad, as that means you'll have to compensate by turning and braking earlier than visual cue would indicate
    Why would you ever look at the in-game wheel and not at what the car actually does? It's your problem for making that mistake no matter the game.

    >but once you drive another sim with close to zero input lag like iRacing or rF2 and compare it to F1 2017, I think there is a clear difference.
    Already done that, no input lag even on 144hz. The only difference is that the animations in both games are janky and flat-out terrible, which 2017 cannot get away with as much due to the fact that it has to be much more of a complete game than those two titles, which only have to be pure sims.

    >and IMO there should be no reason for it being there as much as it is at moment
    Yes there is, as instant animations look unrealistic and terrible. Very easily seen in any ISI-powered sim.

    >it feels that you are missing braking points and things like lock-ups appear to show too late compared to what it should
    You're supposed to be feeling those things through the feedback (which is instant unless your wheel and the game do not interact with one another correctly), not through the way the in-game wheel visually reacts. If the problem lies with the in-game wheel only, then the problem is on your end, as I said.