Yaggings

I was always under the impression that Dirt Rally 1 OST was unreasonably good for its genre. In a game where many players would disable it for "maximum realism", it provided us with a good mix of pumping, energetic tracks and mellow replay tunes. It was really a stroke of genius to combine tense and nervous rallying with an almost zen-like music because, in many ways, rallying is a trance. That's why, when I heard the soundtrack in Dirt Rally 2.0, I was doubly impressed. I am a big fan of lo-fi and DR2.0's soundtrack felt like an improvement on every level. The concept was very similar if not identical, yet the music got a lot more additional depth and can easily be enjoyed on its own. I cannot wait to hear the soundtrack for Dirt Rally 3.

@PJTierney Please let him/remind him to also release the Menu track for Dirt Rally 2.0 on the Soundcloud. I'd love to hear about his inspirations for the soundtrack. I'm sure I'd find some of my favorite artists there, but also a lot of gems I haven't heard yet.

This question came up to me when thinking about certain other series that famously featured street racing, and how it generally went to ****. While I don't think Codies are faultless, I definitely would trust them more with a fun driving experience. However, looking at their titles, all of their series (including the more casual ones) feature "legal" racing only. Obviously Codies have a brand to maintain, so I'm wondering - is this a conscious choice, or were they just never interested in making a street racing game?

I'm reading this as a confirmation for Dirt Rally 3 being released around 2023, once the agreement is in full effect. That'd give the main crew (programmers, artists, animators etc.) over two years to deliver, which is a pretty nice timeline for a project this size. It's possible they're planning Dirt Rally 3 for 2021, Dirt 6 for 2022 and Dirt Rally 4 for 2023, but that'd be pretty ridiculous. I would not be happy with another WRC entry, but this time from Codemasters. It's pointless to split these games, when they occupy the same genre. Perhaps the game will be titled "Dirt WRC", "Dirt Rally 3 WRC", or even a whole new franchise. I'm wondering how it'll influence the development. Obviously the cars are in, but so are the tracks. This does not bode well for the random track generator feature, nor even modding - I'm not betting on WRC allowing much customization in its products.

When every game released in 2019 releases a "Game of the Year" edition, lol. Well, I guess they couldn't call it "How It Should Have Released" edition.

Many racing games often feature hidden, secret or otherwise unconventional vehicles, usually only available under specific circumstances such as challenges, unlocks or cheat codes. They are not meant to be taken seriously - only to have a bit of fun at how ridiculous it is to drive them. Should Dirt Rally games (specifically Dirt Rally 3) features a couple of such cars? They can be pickup trucks, transit vans, a three-wheel car, taxi, limousine etc., whatever makes the game different. They don't have to be perfectly tuned or modeled, as they aren't meant to be used competitively. They aren't supposed to be the main part of the game, nor take anything away from the core features. Perhaps the biggest reason to include them is viral marketing. It makes for a perfect clickbaity title, such as "can I beat X in Y vehicle??". A transit van bumping in Argentina is something to gawk at and, as such, gets more eyes on the game.

I'll try to be brief to not make this post ridiculously long. That's fine. Then don't present it as an argument. No, it's because you're extremely sensitive about "seriousness" and "kid games" and talking about it in an extremely black-or-white fashion. The aforementioned Colin McRae Rally 3 isn't, by any measure, a "kid game", yet it features a fun secret unlock. Yes, that is a slippery slope fallacy. Nobody's going to buy this game solely because there's a Ford Transit in it, but they might be exposed to the game through it. One, something being fun and not entirely serious isn't the same as any of these things. Two, I really doubt you have actually played Fortnite. Kids don't play Fortnite because it has "cosmetics" and "is funny". They also play Minecraft, which has literally none of these things. The unifying element of every game that's popular with kids right now - Fortnite, Minecraft, Roblox, GTA Online - is creativity. They have dozens of modes which provide all types of experiences. There really isn't. It's just your opinion, you've already admitted it. Literally the first response in this thread. Let me reiterate then: They are another challenging vehicle, just like Rally GT cars. They are amusing and fun. They are good marketing. This actually reminds me of a time when Witcher 1 came out. I have suggested that the sequel could feature a multiplayer - a serious and bloody one. I was similarly berated that it's "not in the spirit of the franchise" and multiplayer doesn't fit in a "serious and dark" game. Well, since that time, the game's developers have released four multiplayer games set in the universe, including a freaking MOBA. They were an absolute butchery of the setting and most of them failed, but it hasn't changed anything about the main series.

You don't get to decide which cars are "silly", and which belong and which don't. I'll give you a reason - some people would like to try them out and it's good marketing. "I don't like it" isn't really a strong argument. I don't know why I'd have to explain your own post to you, but you've ragged pretty heavily on "destroying videogame franchises". You have to decide whether you're for the mainstream or against it, can't have it both ways. It's almost like most consumers aren't stuck-up and so unsure of their adulthood that they have to reconfirm it through the media they are consuming, but simply want a bit of fun. Also, what is the connection between introducing an extraordinary car to the game and Fortnite? A Slippery Slope fallacy? You purport to being an old-timer, yet apparently have minimal knowledge on the games from the 90s. This might be just a quip, but it casts doubt on whether you're actually more informed than all of the "kids these days". "Simulation" simply means that the game will generally forgo design in favor of the most realistic depiction of the subject. If you're accurately simulating a Ford Transit in Argentina, that's still a simulation. Slippery Slope again. Seriously, Google it. So it appears you do understand why a game would have different parts that appeal to different consumers, while not infringing at all on the experience of other consumers. Honestly, I should make your argument for you, because you're doing it extremely poorly. What you're concerned about is identification - that Dirt Rally has a specific brand perception that needs to be upheld and corroding that identity would either dilute the game's style or erode the importance of the main modes. This is not a bad argument to make in many games, but it doesn't apply here. 1-3 interesting unlocks aren't going to cause anything of the sorts. There's already a precedent in other "serious simulators" and other games from this series, which had a very similar identification. Additionally, the selling point of Dirt Rally should be difficulty - a difficult car to drive fits perfectly into that, just like the Rally GT class.

What's fun about driving an obviously overpowered Rally GT car? What about a dangerous Group B car? It's the challenge, it's how different these cars are to the rest of the pack. Nobody plays racing games with only the most optimal car. If you do, then you are in the tiniest of minorities. Lol. Providing players with actual unlocks, rather than two season passes is going against the mainstream. I cannot discern any additional arguments from your post, because they seem to be a random rant about the state of gaming. Games for children are not for you - they are for children. There's nothing about Dirt Rally that makes it particularly "serious" - it's not Planescape: Torment. One or two cars that you aren't interested in won't ruin this game, when it repeatedly features an entire gamemode with dozens of separate cars that not a lot of people care about.

tbh if someone beats your record in a Ford Transit you gotta take the L

Exactly. The model for the car will be in DR3 anyway - although it's probable that the player model will need to be vastly upgraded from a generic background model. This is off-topic, but I remember Colin McRae Rally 2.0's multiplayer having some sort of almost "Mario kart" mode with fireballs? This would obviously require even more work, but would be somewhat hilarious.

VR users are a tiny fraction of any playerbase, even including VR-friendly (aka not vomit inducing) games such as driving. I can totally understand why Dirt Rally is the prime candidate for VR support, even though I don't own VR myself. However, I would sacrifice VR over basically any other feature on my list - deeper singleplayer, deeper multiplayer, more content or better graphics - especially if VR will "come later". Even within features that only apply to additional hardware, I'll take a working FFB over VR support.

Yet again, you are not responding to what I've actually written, but to the imaginary argument you've made up in your head. I have stated clearly - just because Dirt 4 was a failure, does not mean every random stage system is a failure. That's like saying every Alien game will always be bad, because Alien: Colonial Marines exists. I really don't think level designers from Codies believe it's a good idea to have a stage with tons of large jumps, water splashes, extreme turns and elevation changes, because at some point it'll look silly. Most of the stages have one or two "extreme" moments that keeps them memorable and unique. It's logically impossible to make everything stand out. Regardless, I would argue that Dirt Rally 2 with all DLCs has around the amount of stages that you would expect from Dirt Rally 3 (and you'll probably get less). And if you're really into this game, you can consume them extremely quick.

You should realize that there have been random track generators - in Rally games - as early as PlayStation 1. Even back then the designers knew, that having a set selection of stages puts a huge clock of waning relevance on the game, because you don't even have other cars to make each run unique. Just because there's ONE game that did it poorly, does not mean it cannot be done right - I mean, the best selling game of all times is procedurally generated. I would argue that the tracks are varied enough, but if you want longer stages, then you'll just get less of them. There's a limit to how many tracks a studio with a set budget can pump out and it's not "impossible" to be bored with even a hundred stages - which will never happen anyway. And no, you are not "99%". There's already been a bunch of posts suggesting random stages or a stage editor. People would like to have that option at least along with hand-crafted stages.

GENERAL Random track generator OR a track editor This is a big one. Dirt Rally has a special "advantage" - lack of official stages. That makes this series a perfect candidate for innovation in that regard. Truth is, tracks are a consumable. At some point you learn them and they stop being surprising. If Dirt Rally 3 wants to avoid the plague of a comical amount of DLC tracks and two season passes, it should spend the time and effort to come up with a truly revolutionary random track generator. It can still have DLC, don't worry, but these can be of cars and countries, rather than tracks that we already know anyway. And you can support the game with dozen of seasons if you want, if the base game would be fulfilling by itself. Better (worse?) co-driver Sometimes realism comes with a detriment to the gameplay. Mr. Phil is very calm and pretty clear, which is quite realistic - he's a professional and he tries to keep the atmosphere in the car cool. However, to a player that might feel like he's just reading the pacenotes at a desk, completely unphased to what's going on around him. We need a less professional co-driver, that does exactly the opposite - adds dramatism and nervousness to the experience. They should react when you drive off the road or hit stuff, they should ask if you're okay if you crash, they should change their voice tone in dangerous situations at high speeds. It might feel counter-intuitive, but it adds to the character of the game and makes it that much engaging. Cuts and tire damage As I have mentioned in a different thread, cuts aren't liked by anyone, neither the experienced players nor the newbies. However, you might never get to eliminate them - if you're too strict, the maps start to look goofy and limited, and some will slip past you anyway. As I have suggested, soft tires should take the most damage when driving off-road, up to a point of a flat. Slower, but harder tires should allow newbies to make a ton of mistakes and still get to the end in one piece. Hardcore Damage Seems that everyone's gripe with hardcore damage is that it's not really "hardcore". While this definitely needs to be fixed and improved, I would also like to see more types of damage - brake failure, gear failure and many others. OFFLINE CHAMPIONSHIP The basis of Dirt Rally (of any Rally game, really), is traversing the track from one end to another as fast as possible. What defines a game mode here is EVERYTHING ELSE. If there's nothing else distinguishing a game mode, it has no reason to exist - and that's the case with almost every mode in Dirt Rally. Focus on Hardcore It might be daunting to explain to Corporate that you'll focus on the players already playing your game, rather than making it easy and approachable, but here's the counter-argument: Dirt Rally now has a reputation to uphold, it's already known as "that game you're going to crash and burn in" among the casual population. The answer to a strong identification is not to distance yourself from it, but to lean in as hard as you can and meet the expectations. What I mean by that is game balance. The game should be balanced for hardcore damage and no resets (including an auto-loss if you Alt+F4), and include additional features (such as random events). That does not mean you CAN'T turn these off, just that the game is made with the assumption that you'll eventually turn them on. In-depth Team Management Team Managements in DR1 and DR2 are extremely linear - you get more money, you upgrade your team members and that's it. In reality, it's not management, it's upgrades that get you closer to the "ideal" racing conditions. Do I have suggestions in this matter? No. I realize the reason the system is so boring is because it's difficult to come up with something truly interesting. So I can just offer criticism of the system and hope you'll figure a way to make it better. Sponsors and decal customization It might seem pointless to include customization in a game where you never see your opponent's cars, but believe me - nobody REALLY sees your amazing decals in Need for Speed, yet people still apply them. Sponsors aren't just an addition to the management aspect - they should get angry when you trash the car with their logos on it, forcing you to drive more cleanly. MULTIPLAYER As in the previous section, each game mode has to feature something that differentiates it from the others - however, in the case of multiplayer in the current Dirt Rally titles, the issue is that there's nothing "multiplayer" about them. Every person on the leaderboard could be called "John Johnson" and it would change absolutely nothing about my experience with it. In a game where you're never interacting with other competitors, an extreme amount of attention should be put into creating that interaction though other venues. Rank and ladder system https://forums.codemasters.com/topic/39258-overly-specific-description-of-a-possible-ranking-system/ I've already posted my idea for a ladder system a long time ago, but the recap is - five tiers, plus a "Legend" tier for the Top 100 players. Bracket players into small groups, so instead of finishing "289" and having no idea how good they actually are, they finish between 1-100 and can directly compare themselves to others. The goal here is feedback and interaction - a player has to see how good they are and how their skill increases with time. In-depth breakdowns and the feeling of progress Keeping with the theme of progress, currently the system produces one winner and hundreds of losers. You will always see a "red" bar on the left side of the screen, because you're compared against ONE score of ONE player that happened to go the fastest. A player must be provided with a stat sheet of what they did right and what they did wrong. Even if they haven't won, was there a split they did particularly fast? You have to let them know.

Calm down.

Is there a good track record for that though? Dirt Rally 2.0 has almost exactly the same championship structure (with a repetitive singleplayer and the daily/weekly/monthly spread), it has all the previous cars and obviously all DLC rally tracks have been from the previous game. The driving is certainly different, but the game itself is not a revolution nor an evolution. More like Dirt Rally 1.9. The stage is set. New engine, VR support from Day 1, actual "hardcore" damage, an online ladder system, randomized stages done well, team management and upgrades that aren't brainless timesinks, these are only some of the things Dirt Rally 3 should have. I'll believe it when I see it.

A couple of days ago, I have decided to stop racing championships and actually focus on one stage, in one car and try to get the best time possible. I cannot say that is wasn't fun - but soon the experience turned from improving corners and tweaking the set-up to finding crazier and crazier cuts. The fact that it was Germany, with it's flat grounds prone to insane cuts just helped even more. Again, I am a fan of speedrunning, so "cheating" isn't a big concern for me, since everyone plays by the same rules. But I think anyone can admit that big cuts look and feel dishonest and nobody would really miss them if they were gone. In fact, I already saw private/online tournaments banning cuts. The end of support for Dirt Rally 2.0 is approaching fast and I am afraid we'll get no meaningful changes after March. If a change is needed, it needs to be pushed for now. First problem The first issue that will obviously pop up is: "what about everyone's scores"? Well, I believe there's an equally obvious solution. Instead of dropping any patch on us in surprise, the change should be announced a month before that. This announcement should be summarized as - "Hey, we are changing most of the tracks and everyone's scores will be reset after that. You've got a month of grinding to become champion for life on one of the old versions". Make it an event and market it. Once it's over and the patch drops, reset the scores and keep the top score from the previous version somewhere on display. First solution The obvious solution to cuts is to put some form of obstacle in the way. While it can certainly be effective, it also requires a lot of work - every cut needs to be identified and blocked, and there's always a chance something will slip past. At the same time, the maps can start looking ridiculous with a rock placed on every corner. All of that does not mean it shouldn't be done - but what it suggests is that there might be a second solution to go in tandem with it. Second solution Unless there has been some patch I am not aware of, soft tires are obviously overpowered. I believe that's not much of an issue, but it gives us some design space to combat cuts in an interesting manner. Since soft tires and more prone to damage, yet everyone that wants the best time uses them, we can target them specifically for cuts. Increase the damage dealt to soft tires (and, in fact, every tire, but most drastically on soft tires) when driving off-road. If you've got softs, you stay on the road - a series of cuts, especially on a longer stage, should even grant you a flat and a wheel change, ruining your chances to get the best time. This shouldn't be a big change for people that take this game seriously, but it'd give the newbies a reason to pick the hard tires over any others, giving them a reason to exist.

True, but also we are not driving the stage a couple of times a year, we're driving it hundreds of times. And we don't have a ton of absolutely random elements that can affect a stage - surface wear and weather are a good start, but they're nowhere close to reality. Random stages are not a secret technology, we had them at least since PS1. Obviously they need a lot more work to bring them to 2020s standards, but they're absolutely essential to making Dirt Rally 3.0 NOT rely on comically large amounts of DLC updates to keep the game fresh. Since Codies don't even have a licence for these stages, they're prime candidates for using innovation as a selling point.

I won't, because it's pointless and unproductive. Codies won't just re-record entire co-driver tracks, because some people feel like a turn doesn't qualify as "short", or a long 1 should actually be a hairpin. Codies MIGHT re-record a line or two, if it's ridiculously wrong or flat-out missing. This is what we can actually count on.

This thread had a lot of potential - some tracks have straight up missing notes, in some cases there's also a bug where pace notes "cut out", as if the co-driver can't keep up and skips a note or two. Unfortunately, it's just one dude spamming his "better notes". It's useless and unhelpful.

Because I would expect a Dirt Rally 2.0 player to have more wit than someone buying Battlefield, CoD, or any other "AAA" game that does multiple season passes. Maybe I'm wrong. But given that there's a lot of people already complaining about DLC, doubling-down on it with a second pass would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot. If that's the case, then I'm not seeing a bright future here. I definitely won't be paying additional cash on top of the Deluxe Edition.

Question is - at which point will further seasons prove to be unprofitable? I can't imagine there are many users buying every single DLC over just purchasing the Deluxe Edition, and each Deluxe Edition purchase is one less reason to put out DLC, since it increases the amount of people that get it for free. There are three possible outs - either nothing changes, the amount of DLC will grow until all support stops at some point; or Codies introduce a "second season pass" (pretty hard to sell, given that we're on the third season, but that's what a lot of games do). Or there is some massive change to the DLC structure, which I'm definitely hoping for.

I don't think this address my concerns - a demo is a way for a single customer to test if they want to purchase a piece of content or not - if a significant number of them don't purchase the game, because it appears they have to spend an additional 50%-100% of the initial price to get all DLCs, then demoing is not a part of the equation. I think, for a casual observer, it looks like the game is nickel-and-dimed and many comments/reviews online already mention DLCs as a big negative (especially with the optics of reusing old content, though I don't agree with that at all). If you're not willing to get out of the perception of a player with the Season Pass and look at it from a new customer's perspective, you might not see it. Codies can still sell new DLC, support the game and release old content for free, these things aren't mutually exclusive. But we're in the age of F2P games with constant updates, free DLC in AAA titles, consumers pushing back against in-game purchases. In this context, DiRT Rally 2's monetization looks outdated.

Sorry, but that's exactly how it works. Game projects work on schedules and roadmaps, I would be extremely surprised if content for Season 4 wasn't being worked on as we speak, if it's planned at all. Regardless, you are clinging to a minor argument. Whether this content was made prior to game's release or not is irrelevant, what matters is the optics of a game filled with minor DLC. You can't feel it if you're enjoying D+, but it looks absolutely repulsive on a storefront. It's not impossible. Free DLC is not an invention we haven't stumbled upon yet as a species, it's here and it works. I understand Codies want to make a buck from new content, so I don't have a problem with that - I simply don't want this game to look like a Train/Truck simulator at some point, with hundreds of $s in DLC.