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Gregow

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  1. Gregow

    Real Rally times an Dirt Rally 2 times

    From what I've seen the actual inputs in the first Dirt Rally are closer to reality than Dirt Rally 2.0. The first Dirt Rally though, has some glaringly obvious flaws that are fixed in 2.0.
  2. I'm not talking about unsticking the rear or sliding the car. It's quite true that's actually how you drive fast on loose surfaces. No argument there. What I'm talking about is that the inputs would actually not match and that DR2 is playing very nice with you. The inputs in the first Dirt Rally were actually a better match to reality, although that game was otherwise a lot more flawed. I agree you would have to use real world rally driving techniques, at least to some extent. There are some exploits you can use in the game that I certainly would not like to try in a real car. Like turn the wheels 90 degrees in a fwd car and floor it, and somehow it turns nicely. Aside from such weirdness, please don't try left foot braking and pendulum turns in real life without first practicing in a safe environment. The physics are sort of there and quite intuitive in the game, but you'll have an accident if you try that in a real car. Things like this is also where you'll notice the center pivot and how the tires interact, or don't interact, with the surface. There's a clear discrepancy between the game and reality. Not to mention, of course, just the fact of going really fast on gravel roads. In a real car, when you pick up speed, it's something like a hovercraft but you still feel the tires making contact with the surface. Bumps can be really unsettling, if you don't just fly over them. By braking or turning you can make the tires bite down (this part is pretty well done in the game, I think), and by going over that threshold you can maintain a nice slide (not as well replicated in the game). Yes, it happens but it's tame. As a comparison, play through rally school in RBR and compare the school stage to the fords in Wales. In this case RBR got it more right than DR, and it should be pretty obvious once you try it. While you're at it, notice that while you can go for maximum attack in both games they are quite different in how you measure and control the pace.
  3. Yeah, about as right as the center pivot.
  4. First of all, we got R5 cars. Quite different from WRC cars. Heck, watching the latest Wales rally the commentator even mentioned the JWRC/R5 cars as not being as easy to jump as the WRC cars. Second, I never claimed I don't crash a lot. That's completely beside the point. My argument has never been "you should crash more", it has been that the game does not present certain challenges and that it's dumbed down. Challenges that certainly would lead to a number of interesting ways to crash, but I'm not asking for Dirty Tree Huggers 2.0.
  5. You mean the video with some nice jumps in modern WRC cars? And you thought I was cherrypicking? There are tons of videos showing exactly what I'm talking about. Go on youtube and enjoy yourself.
  6. Oh, you restart in mid air - do you? Yeah, DR2 improved from the first game. Considering the first Dirt Rally hade better air control than Quake World, that's not saying much. So Codemasters gave the cars more weight, removed the air control aspect, and now we have cars that are too stable. Cherrypicking? Here's a list of my ciriticisms: Center pivot Tire modeling or lack thereof is weird. It lacks real forces acting on the tires. Road camber very little effect. Bumps and jumps don't upset the cars enough - they're too stable. I can also add that the surface model makes it difficult to maintain slides with the cars. On the one hand it's nice to replicate the progression of grip when you slide and load the outside tires, but it also makes the cars more prone to grip and straighten out than they should.
  7. When you're forming your opinion and making claims about RBR, it would be prudent to actually play the game - both vanilla and Next Gen Physics mod. Perhaps then you would get what I'm saying about differences in how you approach the driving. Real cars get upset by bumps and jumps in the road. Treat them casually and you will crash and damage the car. The camber of the road has a big impact and can be used to your advantage. Dirt Rally simplifies this a lot. You think that's just my opinion? When was the last time you landed on one wheel after a jump? Or going nose first? Or landing hard on the rear wheels? Answer is, you have to go completely out of control to manage that.
  8. Friend, you have misquoted me. I was not the one who wrote that.
  9. Well, there aren't really many games that are worth comparing to. I elaborated a bit more on this in the 'Tarmac Physics and FFB'-thread. Although drunk driving my phone, I think that should give you an idea of the issues I have with rwd.
  10. You're arguing against your own straw man, not anything I've said. While you can't make a game drive exactly as real life, the goal of a simulator is to make the experience as close as possible. Dirt Rally does not and I doubt it was ever the purpose. Thus, it is not "hardcore" (as a sim). We can put whatever label we want on it. Arcade, simcade or whatever. Doesn't really matter. You like it that way? Cool. I like the game too but it seems we have different preferences. That's also cool. However, it is not a hardcore sim. I wish it was. You don't. Fine. I like WRC 8 too and in some ways it's more sim than DR. In others, it's not. I'll just wait for it to get patched before committing too much time to it. Ps. And the "speak for yourself" was directed at the comment that "anyone who's watched real rally...".
  11. Speak for yourself, not others. RBR is dependent on mods, what cars you use and on which tracks you use them. It's full of flaws and it's old and outdated. Still, it has aspects that DR lacks Like, cross a ford. Hit it wrong and/or too fast and you will damage the car, bounce off track and crash. You can mess up the front, or rear or both. Depends on how you attack it. Go over a jump and the car can twist, the nose can dive or the rear will come too high. Depends on your approach. You can't just go full throttle or chase the highest speed. You must always have a measured approach. Bumps, crests, road camber, pot holes etc upset the car, or can be used to your advantage, in a way that doesn't exist in DR. Dirt Rally is tame in comparison. Yes, rwd cars in DR are harder to drive than they should because of lack of feedback from the game and the fact they don't behave as rwd cars should. That's not hardcore. It's an artificial problem caused by the games physics. It's not about difficulty level per se. It's easy to make a game hard to play. That doesn't make it more realistic. But neither does making the handling more casual make it more realistic. Thing is, DR is not punishing where it should be. Sometimes it's punishing where it should not.
  12. No, I have not breezed through it and that's not an indication of how hardcore (or not) the driving is. What I'm saying is if you try to drive a car in real life, like you do in Dirt Rally, you will crash very badly. And it's not because the lack of g-forces when playing the game, or lack of feeling the bumps in the road or any such thing. It's because the game is made easier to drive than it should be, and the cars don't behave quite as they should. That's what I mean by the game not being hardcore, and that it strokes your ego.
  13. I completely agree. My biggest disappointment with DR is that it's far too arcade. Not saying the games are bad and unenjoyable, but I'd say they're far off from being hardcore. Actually, not even in the same universe. I long for the day of a real spiritual successor to RBR. Not saying it's still the best in realism. But, it was a game that did it's very best to be the most realistic. No excuses whatsoever. This is rally, just deal with it. You needed the rally school not to rage quit the game and never play again. That's hardcore. Not saying difficulty equals realism, but real rally is gosh darn hard. RBR never gave a ****, it just did it's best to be real. And that's why it's legend. Dirt Rally... sorry, but it's made to stroke your ego and make you feel good.
  14. Gregow

    Tarmac Physics and FFB

    My bad, I was drunk driving my phone last night. Yes, torque is equal - to the wheel with least traction.
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