KickUp

From my point of view, it depens on the car and the type of car you are using. Yesterday I tried the Alpine on rain in wales and the car was very grippy but I think the weight of the car played a major. I also tried fiesta r5 and again it was grippy but like a WRC car in Dirt Rally. The Rallycross feels amazing, way better than in Dirt Rally. I think that overall, it may be a little more grippy than Dirt Rally but not by much. Then again, they worked with Kris Meeke to developp the handling so I think that what we have in Dirt 4 is maybe near reality. Sorry for my english im french canadian And upgrades on the car change the handling, a lot. My 2001 Subaru had the 'too much grip' problem, bogging down 2/3rds of the way round hairpins while running C grade parts. Upgraded it to B grade parts and the problem went away. Nope. Upgrades are all about part durability not performance. 

calling @KickUp... :) Not a possibility at the moment based on how the cars are placed. One to improve on in the future.We do control how much their retirement encroaches on the stage itself though so you may find some cars are quite in the way.

There will still be a little something to grab but it will be around 500Mb - 1Gb

I would also like to know is there differences and what under the hood, and do rally cars also use same Cooper tire model & info that is used in RX or something else. Wrote this on another thread also, but i'm just curious about this. Game itself will be great anyway, but to me there is just something wonderful to know how things work and why. That's why the curiosity. (Especially when people are praising RX, and you would think the handling be the same with Rally (gravel & tarmac in both), but those are quite different cars though...) The Cooper tyre model is only used in RX. It's a crossply tyre and is quite different to what is used in Rally and Landrush.  Thanks for the quick answer again and bringing these facts up.  It's really great to see the amount of work done to make it correct especially when it is so unique to RX vs other disciplines in the game. I think it shows some serious dedication from the devs side! And i have now learned something new again! Would you like or consider to work similarly in-depth what you did with Cooper, with some manufacturer regarding Rally tires in future or have you even already done so?  Absolutely but the data is not readily available. The rigs used to test tarmac tyres simply don't apply to loose surfaces as they are designed to simulate an abrasive sealed surface. How a gravel tyre cuts into a loose surface is entirely different. Then there is the incredibly complex matter of the depth and density of the loose surfaces that the tyre cuts into.  This is why we rely on drivers like Kris Meeke giving us feedback on how the cars feel on the various loose surfaces. He has a great deal of experience competing in a number of modern and classic cars that we represent in game. He helped us refine the experience to what we have today. 

I would also like to know is there differences and what under the hood, and do rally cars also use same Cooper tire model & info that is used in RX or something else. Wrote this on another thread also, but i'm just curious about this. Game itself will be great anyway, but to me there is just something wonderful to know how things work and why. That's why the curiosity. (Especially when people are praising RX, and you would think the handling be the same with Rally (gravel & tarmac in both), but those are quite different cars though...) The Cooper tyre model is only used in RX. It's a crossply tyre and is quite different to what is used in Rally and Landrush. 

We asked her and she requested USA, sorry Strange... I wonder why? Professionally she lives and works in America and it made more sense to her in that regard

We asked her and she requested USA, sorry

Leagues (or Clubs as we will be calling them) are not available at launch. The plan is to add them further down the line. Hah! So that we can make them good!

Leagues (or Clubs as we will be calling them) are not available at launch. The plan is to add them further down the line.

Yes. If you choose to. You can select your platform only. That's good news, does it have different leader boards for arcade / sim handling? Yes

Yeah you can share setups but you don't need to use Steam workshop to do it so it is available to use on all platforms.

Thanks  :)

And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4? D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll). Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands. It's because of manufacturer demands. I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient. @kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally? No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had Excellent! Thanks @KickUp :) I'm relieved to hear this. Can I another question please? Some game play videos seem to be showing the AI being easy to beat by a rather large margin even on the harder difficulty (not fearless but the next one down). I was a bit concerned about this because in the videos where this was happening the driving was by no means a very high level with quite a lot of mistakes and generally not that fast and yet somehow the AI was beaten by around 15 seconds consistently, sometimes by even more. Admittedly in Dirt I can sometimes beat the Master AI by these kind of margins, but usually I have to drive a lot faster then what I've seen in these game play videos and without mistakes and not every stage, only on some stages can I do this, where other stages the margin will be way less or the AI will beat me by quite a bit.  I thought that I read somewhere that the hardest AI setting below the fearless setting (sorry I don't know what its called, 'Demanding'?) was supposed to be equivalent to Master on Dirt Rally and that Fearless was a step above (the Old) Master level. But it doesn't seem to be that way when watching these videos. Maybe I  misunderstood what I read in regards to how difficulty in D4 relates to Dirt Rally? The other thing I was thinking is that maybe what I was watching was career mode (cant quite remember) and that the easier than expected AI was due to it being early in the career and the events themselves had an effect on the AI level and as you progress it ramps up in difficulty in the bigger events. If it does turn out that things are looking a bit too easy, will you guys be looking to increase the difficulty via an update like you did with Dirt Rally? It is different. In DiRT Rally the fastest driver in all the difficulties wasn't the same. What changed was the Level of the other drivers.  In DiRT 4 the drivers are of different skills in all difficulties and with Your Stage we have had to simulate the speed at which they can travel through the generated stages. As a result we have had to err on the side of caution to ensure that they can be beaten.  I can't promise an update but we will be monitoring the times players are getting to see how they compare to the AI and that may lead to us making an adjustment.  As always, thankyou for your reply @KickUp :) I am confident that you guys will make an adjustment if it is needed in the future, thats just how you guys roll and I highly respect your integrity as game developers. Also I can appreciate that the brilliance that is Your Stage also end up makeing this part of your job (AI times) all the more challenging to perfect the first time;) I am a little confused with a couple of things you said in your reply though and had a couple more questions to add below if you would not mind. 1) Did you mean to say that in Dirt Rally, the fastest AI driver was the same across all difficulty modes it was just the other drivers/times that got harder/faster with each jump in difficulty level? This is how I understood it. 2) Also, are you saying this is not the case in Dirt 4 and that every difficulty level has a different 'fastest driver' as well as a different speed of 'overall driver field' in each difficulty? Sorry to ask twice about these things but I just wasnt sure I understood :) BTW if this is the case, I think it is a better system for sure and would be happy about this. 3) Can you explain a bit about what the AI difficulty levels in Dirt are meant to offer in terms of challenge and also how they relate to the AI difficulty levels in Dirt Rally? 4) If you can as well please, also explain a bit more about the ominous sounding fearless mode!  :# Because one thing Im not sure of yet is the exact restrictions imposed by this difficulty level and if it restricts outside views as well as other things like the hud, and also, just how scary difficult are the AI compared to Dirt Rally!? Thanks :smiley: 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. We never set out to make them equivalent to DiRT Rally. They should offer the majority of players a decent challenge.  4. It does restrict views and ups the AI difficulty but one of the biggest challenges is the removal of restarts.  @KickUp 2) Cool, that definitely sounds like a better system with varying 'fastest drivers' and an improvement on DR. :) 3) Okay I get you, sounds like you've changed things up quite a bit with the AI if there are no direct comparrisons that were designed or can be made between the 2 games in this area. I hope the level of AI challange is as good as DR or better but I will have to wait a few days to see :) 4) Thanks, I did not know about the restarts, that will make a difference! Thanks for letting me know about view restrictions, though Personaly Im not keen on this part of 'Fearless' (after I unlock it) because I drive chasecam and will have to learn another view if I want access to the highest AI challenge. :( We've tried to keep the top level as challenging while making things more accessible for new players. That has meant that the easier difficulty levels have been brought down significantly.  With regards to Fearless. It's not for everyone. I don't play in Fearless as the stress is too much for me ;)

And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4? D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll). Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands. It's because of manufacturer demands. I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient. @kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally? No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had Excellent! Thanks @KickUp :) I'm relieved to hear this. Can I another question please? Some game play videos seem to be showing the AI being easy to beat by a rather large margin even on the harder difficulty (not fearless but the next one down). I was a bit concerned about this because in the videos where this was happening the driving was by no means a very high level with quite a lot of mistakes and generally not that fast and yet somehow the AI was beaten by around 15 seconds consistently, sometimes by even more. Admittedly in Dirt I can sometimes beat the Master AI by these kind of margins, but usually I have to drive a lot faster then what I've seen in these game play videos and without mistakes and not every stage, only on some stages can I do this, where other stages the margin will be way less or the AI will beat me by quite a bit.  I thought that I read somewhere that the hardest AI setting below the fearless setting (sorry I don't know what its called, 'Demanding'?) was supposed to be equivalent to Master on Dirt Rally and that Fearless was a step above (the Old) Master level. But it doesn't seem to be that way when watching these videos. Maybe I  misunderstood what I read in regards to how difficulty in D4 relates to Dirt Rally? The other thing I was thinking is that maybe what I was watching was career mode (cant quite remember) and that the easier than expected AI was due to it being early in the career and the events themselves had an effect on the AI level and as you progress it ramps up in difficulty in the bigger events. If it does turn out that things are looking a bit too easy, will you guys be looking to increase the difficulty via an update like you did with Dirt Rally? It is different. In DiRT Rally the fastest driver in all the difficulties wasn't the same. What changed was the Level of the other drivers.  In DiRT 4 the drivers are of different skills in all difficulties and with Your Stage we have had to simulate the speed at which they can travel through the generated stages. As a result we have had to err on the side of caution to ensure that they can be beaten.  I can't promise an update but we will be monitoring the times players are getting to see how they compare to the AI and that may lead to us making an adjustment.  As always, thankyou for your reply @KickUp :) I am confident that you guys will make an adjustment if it is needed in the future, thats just how you guys roll and I highly respect your integrity as game developers. Also I can appreciate that the brilliance that is Your Stage also end up makeing this part of your job (AI times) all the more challenging to perfect the first time;) I am a little confused with a couple of things you said in your reply though and had a couple more questions to add below if you would not mind. 1) Did you mean to say that in Dirt Rally, the fastest AI driver was the same across all difficulty modes it was just the other drivers/times that got harder/faster with each jump in difficulty level? This is how I understood it. 2) Also, are you saying this is not the case in Dirt 4 and that every difficulty level has a different 'fastest driver' as well as a different speed of 'overall driver field' in each difficulty? Sorry to ask twice about these things but I just wasnt sure I understood :) BTW if this is the case, I think it is a better system for sure and would be happy about this. 3) Can you explain a bit about what the AI difficulty levels in Dirt are meant to offer in terms of challenge and also how they relate to the AI difficulty levels in Dirt Rally? 4) If you can as well please, also explain a bit more about the ominous sounding fearless mode!  :# Because one thing Im not sure of yet is the exact restrictions imposed by this difficulty level and if it restricts outside views as well as other things like the hud, and also, just how scary difficult are the AI compared to Dirt Rally!? Thanks :smiley: 1. Yes 2. Yes 3. We never set out to make them equivalent to DiRT Rally. They should offer the majority of players a decent challenge.  4. It does restrict views and ups the AI difficulty but one of the biggest challenges is the removal of restarts. 

I said we were aiming for Monday. I never promised that it would actually be available today. 

And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4? D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll). Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands. It's because of manufacturer demands. I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient. @kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally? No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had Excellent! Thanks @KickUp :) I'm relieved to hear this. Can I another question please? Some game play videos seem to be showing the AI being easy to beat by a rather large margin even on the harder difficulty (not fearless but the next one down). I was a bit concerned about this because in the videos where this was happening the driving was by no means a very high level with quite a lot of mistakes and generally not that fast and yet somehow the AI was beaten by around 15 seconds consistently, sometimes by even more. Admittedly in Dirt I can sometimes beat the Master AI by these kind of margins, but usually I have to drive a lot faster then what I've seen in these game play videos and without mistakes and not every stage, only on some stages can I do this, where other stages the margin will be way less or the AI will beat me by quite a bit.  I thought that I read somewhere that the hardest AI setting below the fearless setting (sorry I don't know what its called, 'Demanding'?) was supposed to be equivalent to Master on Dirt Rally and that Fearless was a step above (the Old) Master level. But it doesn't seem to be that way when watching these videos. Maybe I  misunderstood what I read in regards to how difficulty in D4 relates to Dirt Rally? The other thing I was thinking is that maybe what I was watching was career mode (cant quite remember) and that the easier than expected AI was due to it being early in the career and the events themselves had an effect on the AI level and as you progress it ramps up in difficulty in the bigger events. If it does turn out that things are looking a bit too easy, will you guys be looking to increase the difficulty via an update like you did with Dirt Rally? It is different. In DiRT Rally the fastest driver in all the difficulties wasn't the same. What changed was the Level of the other drivers.  In DiRT 4 the drivers are of different skills in all difficulties and with Your Stage we have had to simulate the speed at which they can travel through the generated stages. As a result we have had to err on the side of caution to ensure that they can be beaten.  I can't promise an update but we will be monitoring the times players are getting to see how they compare to the AI and that may lead to us making an adjustment. 

And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4? D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll). Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands. It's because of manufacturer demands. I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient. @kickup So does this mean Dirt 4's damage has been nerfed compared to Dirt Rally? No, if anything the cars take a similar amount of damage but they get to their limits faster. Its how we've got around the limitations set. I think it is an improvement over what we had

Still aiming for it but we are trying to fix a few more bits before we do it.

And that's why 15 years old games (ie all gModor based ones) can show more deformation than than D4? D4 cars are prone to brake apart rather then deformate.  But if there is no enough energy, then damage is barely visible (for example after roll). Even D:R has more deformation than D4 shown on recent videos. Moreover deformation in D:R could be extended by using community mod. It proves that better deformation is in place, ready to use. But for some reasons suppressed by developers. And please don't say it's because of manufacturers demands. It's because of manufacturer demands.I agree our damage systems could be improved but it is all confined by the demands of the licensing agreements. I'd argue cars take more damage in DiRT than they do in many other current licensed racing titles but every time we release a game the manufacturers get stricter about damage not more lenient.

I know there have been some changes to how we did things for DiRT Rally but I don't know precisely what they are as it is not my area.

Yes the AI are dependent on whether you use Gamer or Sim, that is why you can't change between the handling models in the middle of a championship.Human players are kept on seperate leaderboards.

Thanks @dgeesi0 :smile: 2) you should be able to bind those functions to your controller 

It's a cool idea. So there is always a chance

Watching this rallycross, some questions come to mind. - Cars are squashed in the rear view mirror. - Does the spotter give us information about opponent position for overtaking (inside/outside/clear)? - Is a virtual rear view mirror optional? - Can we activate position indicators (inside/outside/clear)? - Looking at the repair menu, I am missing the option to clean the car. I could swear that I've seen that in some older videos? 1. We focus more on the main game rendering than the mirrors and as a result they don't look fanatastic. Especially on Xbox One 2. In Rallycross the spotter focuses on Joker tactics rather than track position. This is based on information we've recieved talking to the RX teams about what they focus on in the race. In Landrush the spotter talks more about vehicle position.  3. Not on console only on PC 4. No 5. It's in the inspection tab, if you select repairs first then the option is greyed out but if you clean first then it reduces inspection times. 

Indeed. That was Colins' prime, when the cars had to be man handeled. When the technology started to allow the cars to be driven fairly straight forward even on gravel, that's when he started to be outpaced. Some uf us (me included) still prefer to drive non active diffs cars in sims :) BTW @KickUp Does Dirt 4 simulate active vs non active central differentials for example in Focus WRC 2007 vs 2001? Cars with active diffs have that style of tech represented in their simulation.