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dirt3joe

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Everything posted by dirt3joe

  1. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    No, we don't know anything compared to codies. Most of the stuff you put forward comes from your own personal bias rather than a cold assessment of the marketplace. "I'd say more hardcore than approachable. Even though WRC 7 wasn't a full-on sim, a lot of people loved the narrow, authentic, challenging stages. People seem to enjoy challenge in their rally games." So how do you explain the sales figures on VGChartz then if people loved it ? What you really mean is, you loved it and people who frequent the sites you go on loved it. Gamers in general don't appear to love it. Which is where you want to be if you want to make money and carry on making games.
  2. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Most on here will say hardcore because they are hardcore. But this place represents probably less than 0.1% of the userbase so its not really a good test of what gamers in general want. I would say both :) So Ludwig’s solution would be a good one? Proper Sim handling and great stages, with a suite of optional assists or a gamer mode like D4, to make the game more accessible to all? It seems to be the best way to cover all bases? Yes and no. Yes in the respect it's a start. No in the respect that if you want to make big money the focus has to be on capturing a larger non hardcore userbase. What that needs to be in terms of features is more difficult to define. What I do know is that spending a ton of time messing around with the physics model because 0.1% of the userbase think it's not quite right isn't going to turn a game from being hardcore only focussed into a big seller. Well, rally is inherently a difficult sport. On top of car control you need to focus and concentrate on your notes. So while you are physically and mentally dealing with the current corner, at the same time your mind is receiving info and digesting what will be coming on the next two or three corners. That's hardcore from whatever angle you look at it. Why would anyone want a dumbed-down accessible version of the most extreme of motorsports? That's why we have stuff like Gravel, The Crew, Forza Horizon, DiRT... The bottom line is that point-to-point rally titles just don't sell well because it's a very niche market. Car games in general are struggling. Not even the critically-acclaimed DiRT Rally was a huge success at the box office <-- correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't looked at the sales numbers. All sport at the top level is difficult and requires hard work and absolute dedication. That's not what games are for though, they are to give people some experience/taste of the sport without having to have the skills of Seb Loeb. It should be an enjoyable experience that encourages them to learn more, not throw the game away in frustration. Rally is niche. You can look on that as a drawback, or an opportunity. There's plenty of opportunity for growth if the formula is right. That's good for everyone. Going down the sim only route just leads to a barren wasteland of hardly any games and the ones that are released are not very good because no one can afford the development costs based on poor sales. I'd rather have games that are slightly dumbed down than no games at all.
  3. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Most on here will say hardcore because they are hardcore. But this place represents probably less than 0.1% of the userbase so its not really a good test of what gamers in general want. I would say both :) So Ludwig’s solution would be a good one? Proper Sim handling and great stages, with a suite of optional assists or a gamer mode like D4, to make the game more accessible to all? It seems to be the best way to cover all bases? Yes and no. Yes in the respect it's a start. No in the respect that if you want to make big money the focus has to be on capturing a larger non hardcore userbase. What that needs to be in terms of features is more difficult to define. What I do know is that spending a ton of time messing around with the physics model because 0.1% of the userbase think it's not quite right isn't going to turn a game from being hardcore only focussed into a big seller.
  4. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    What we can take away from the evolution of the Kylotonn games is that WRC Promoter has finally warmed up to a more challenging, hardcore experience. After a dozen accessible titles with a couple exceptions WRC 7 has shown that an official title does not have to be dumbed-down for mass appeal. After all, this is rally, the most extreme motorsport in the world. Following WRC 5 and 6 fans were screaming/begging for a more hardcore experience, and Kylotonn delivered. Whether you like, hate or are indifferent to WRC 7 the fact remains that it is the most hardcore and challenging official WRC title ever. Sure it has flaws, especially in the physics, but the stage design coupled with the improved physics engine has managed to deliver an immersive and challenging seat-of-your pants kife-edge rally experience, similar to what we all love about DiRT Rally. So to sum up all my drivel in one sentence: WRC games no longer need to be accessible. In fact, I think a more hardcore experience will sell more than any half-assed attempt and pleasing everybody. Of course, since we have all been second-guessing each other and ourselves with the license talk, I guess you could also see it this way: Bigben/Kylotonn was kicked off the project because WRC 7 was too hardcore for WRC Promoter's tastes. Who knows? The fact of the matter is that WRC 7 was by far the most well-received and critically-acclaimed by the userbase of the three Kylotonn WRC titles. I think what you're saying there is that the hardcore who bought 5/6 (because it didn't sell that well so only the hardcore bought it) screamed to have it more hardcore, which made 7 more hardcore, which as far as I can tell hasn't sold either ! So making stuff hardcore is fine provided you don't want to sell many games. I agree it's easily to modify something difficult into something easy than the other way round.
  5. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Most on here will say hardcore because they are hardcore. But this place represents probably less than 0.1% of the userbase so its not really a good test of what gamers in general want. I would say both :)
  6. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Doesn't really matter what steam sales say. 5 times nothing is still nothing. Number of people playing doesn't equal profit. Sims prevail more than more general games because the userbase is more hardcore. That doesn't mean they sell more though. WRC7 sales look awful vs. D4 and the majority seem to think that was a good sim. Review ratings aren't necessarily related to whether people buy the game either.  Mainly because most reviews of these games are awful. Most peopel just get lost in a sea of information these days. What makes games sell is good games, not good sims. A good game can be a good sim, but sims don't sell. Plenty of evidence for that. I think if we have to be real about something it's that any information we have is only partially complete. Codies with their sales numbers, focus groups and market research know far more than we do about what is likely to sell and what doesn'tt. They have access to information we don't that allows them to make more informed choices. We know nothing by comparison. Nothing we say will help them make that choice, and no information we have allows us to declare whether Dirt Rally was a "clear win" over Dirt 4 because we don't have access to either precise sales numbers or production costs. One thing that I do know is that games that sell the most will be ones that appeal to a broad userbase and are fun for everyone. I don't know what that translates to exactly in terms of rally games but I know that it isn't Dirt Rally, even though I love the game a lot.
  7. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    So far I see Dirt 4 sales at approx. 600k vs. Dirt Rally at approx. 700K on vgchartz. So ultimately if Dirt Rally was that much better than Dirt 4 it wasn't reflected in the numbers that count.
  8. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    It's definitely a strong hint and the fact that it is timed to end exactly 5 years after the licence was announced ? Mostly businesses are formulaic. You can see what they do in the future based on the past. The reason for that is conceptually it reduces unknowns and gives you benchmarks to work against (are we at the same point this year as we were in the last?). They won't change something that worked previously unless there is good reason. Why would you take the risk ? So why did they compress the season this year ? The fact that they have changed the schedule from the previous one is interesting. They may have done just in case they did not get the new licence, but I would guess the negotiations were over by the time they announced the dates.
  9. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    FH3 has sold a batch but it must have cost a small fortune to produce. The stuff about SMS is interesting. You are right. It was implied that it was a relatively short time to release of information yet we have heard nothing for about 6 months. Something weird there.
  10. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Pcars 2 doesn't sit in the same space as the rest of the rally games above, even if it does have the rally content. It's too damn hard and fiddly for casual players to use. I would say we are unlikely to see another Rally EVO. I think milestone are more likely to carry on with the Bike sims and open world. Dakar is the interesting one. The big one above that you missed out is the FH series which has been a monster seller on XB1. There's no equivalent to that on PS4. Will Dakar be it ? We shall see. I don't see a separate Rx release on the cards but who knows.
  11. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    There must be quite some logistical problems in organising a takeover of something like this, for everyone. From what I have seen there is strong evidence to suggest the current licencing period ends at the end of July 2018 (but that isn't 100% certain). My guess is that they would have started negotiations about a year before that. In any case both CM and Kyloton are in a better position than someone starting from scratch as Dirt can become WRC and WRC can become VRally. It's one way of hedging the outcome. Still getting a game ready for the pre-xmas release window would be a tough job for someone new, and if it doesn't get out before xmas then you're looking at maybe march april time to get over the post xmas dead zone. That doesn't exactly sync up well with the WRC season proper, which would be a nice thing to do. Vrally remains the strongest hint yet to me that something may be up, but you can't completely discount the possibility that they have decided to push back the release of WRC to sync it with the WRC season a bit better (maybe beginning to mid december). Still, I would have thought that they would be looking to get a 6 month split between the two releases, and that doesn't seem to be the case.
  12. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Well if the aim was to kill any speculation with that announcement then that really worked. Not. :)
  13. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Had a couple of tunnocks teacakes at the coffee morning do the other day. Must say I prefer Wagon Wheels. The stuff in the top of the teacake was a bit runny/gooey for my marsh mellow tastes.
  14. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    The thing is simple... Always there is place for a real good game dude B) If there is so much interest in Grid, why are you having to post about Grid in the Dirt thread ?
  15. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    I quite liked Grid AS but it didn't sell well according to the charting sites. Grid 2 I remember reading somewhere was supposedly Codies most expensive ever game. I don't think that did too well either. I get the impression that the Grid team disappeared en mass after Grid AS. I would like to see Grid AS in backwards compatibility for Xbox. I reckon that;s the most anyone can expect from Grid. Re a new Grid game, what is that going to offer that existing games don't ? It overlaps considerably with Forza, GTSport and some other games. You could make the handling accessible and the game easy to play. But I think you would need a rock solid online, something that Codies seem to have stuggled with in F1. VR might up the sales, but the current hardware is not powerful enough and is there the userbase there yet ? I don't see any clear market for Grid 3.With onrush I see what they are trying to do there. A lot of people seem to like Motorstorm and want another and there seems to be a gap in the market to go for. I hope it works out, even if it's not something I am into.
  16. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    For the same reason people, who like arcade games, want new ones to come out. Because new game-engines, better technology, better graphics, new physics and gameplay features, new selection of cars et al. Exactly, so I would assume that the market for both games are equal in size. And some like myself enjoy both types of game. I don't think most people are sim crazy. Most people that seek out the specialist websites like this, pcars and f1 might be (ie 1% of the userbase), but the "standard" games purchaser isn't. The standard games purchaser wants to believe that the game is as real as possible but more so than this is fun to play. If it isn't fun to play then they will dump it in short order. Whereas your sim fanatic gets their kicks out of believing they are actually driving something as close to the real thing as possible. And if that makes the game difficult or unplayable, well that's just something to be overcome and enable them to claim they are "elite" compared to gamers. Sims are not where sales are at the moment. Look at PCars 2 vs. Forza Horizon and GT Sport. That said, it should be possible to go for both camps. It should be relatively easy to turn a sim into a less demanding experience. Turning a less demanding experience into a sim, that's the hard bit. Or at least should be.
  17. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    @warpengage yeah I hear you man. The "Kylotonn lost the WRC license" rumors started when someone spotted that Bigben had registered v-rally4.com. And it turned out to be true that Kylotonn will not be doing the next WRC game. Of course, as you stated earlier, that does not rule out Bigben nor any other publisher. And obviously we have no idea who the new developer will be. @CodingRacer broke the "Codemasters will do WRC 8" bomb months ago. Meanwhile we all laughed at him. Now it looks to be a possibility. It's a bit frustrating that no new evidence or hints have surfaced since the V-Rally 4 announcement. Codemasters is very secretive by nature so if they do have the license we won't know until they want us to know. Other devs seem to be more sloppy about keeping secrets, so I would have imagined that some kind of juicy piece of half-evidence would have surfaced by now. Then again, a NDA like CodingRacer referred to in the other thread is serious business - you're just not allowed to talk about that stuff, period. @Accro2008 in that post they specifically refer to the F1 team. And we know from previous posts that the F1 team has been hard at work on F1 2018. If I remember correctly the beta news was also mentioned. Given the problems that the F1 series suffers from chronically I doubt the F1 team would have anything to do with a rally game. In fact, we know from previous roadbooks that it was the DiRT team that had to go in and help the F1 team after the disasterous and bug-filled launch of F1 2017. If "the F1 team" was not part of that sentence then you would have definitely uncovered some serious gossip! Don't see any proof Kylotonn aren't doing WRC 8 although strong suggestions they might not be. Re V rally, maybe they decided to release WRC 8 later in say Jan 2019 to match the esports season and felt that a 4 month delay between rally games was enough ? There is strong evidence that the licence contract will be renewed on 31st July this year, but who with no-one knows for sure. Every time the licence is renewed you would expect that the promoter would contact interested parties. If would be more of a surprise if they weren't in contact with several developers/publishers re stuff like this. I suppose the point I'm making is there are no certainties, only probabilities, and although the evidence/clues might point to one particular outcome it's far from certain. Re anyone being secretive, it's not just because of company policies. It's probably that they actually aren't allowed to tell anyone, as well as the fact that they want to make maximum impact with the announcement and that requires planning and thought. Everyone has got to respect that and when they are ready and allowed to announce something (if indeed they have it) they will do so. Finally WRC 7 was a pretty good game. Dirt Rally was brilliant. I think we're going to get a great game whatever. I hope it's Codies because I think they will do a great job and I prefer their style and I want something fresh and new, but if Kylotonn build on their experience with 7 then a WRC 8 by them should be a pretty good game too. I do hope if Codies get it we still get some DiRT. A DiRT group B add on DLC or something like that !
  18. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    As far as I can tell they aren't offering jobs for WRC specifically. Translate produces the words "such as WRC". It  doesn't seem like to me that the posting is specifically WRC orientated. Job adverts do that all the time. They give examples of the kind of things you might be working on, but that eosn't mean you will be necessarily working on that particular thing.
  19. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    I am the opposite. I think there is more evidence to suggest someone else will have it than bb retain it. But in any case, I think no-one will know for certain until end July. The next big clue will be whether another WRC game is announced by end May. And also when they announce the as yet undated finals of WRC esports.
  20. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Well he's right. Codemasters don't have the WRC licence at this current point in time. BigBen interactive have it. Whether or not they will still have it after 31st July, that's another question.
  21. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    Im Polish. Can you fill Pierogi with it? As an Italian I've come to the conclusion that they don't quite fit with pasta. So I decided to look for something else :D https://m.facebook.com/notes/wrc-the-official-game/esport-wrc-2018-world-championship/911367252368650/ The official WRC eSports season by Kylotonn ends this year on July the 29th with Rally Finland. Last season finished alongside the real life Rally Australia event on the 19th November. Could it be that they anticipated the end of the season because they know by October a new game will be launched and they won't be the developers in charge of it? What an amazing co-incidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bean_Games
  22. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    They have, which is quite incredible. They have released 3 AAA titles in the last 1-year period. However, do you really think, with V-Rally 4 on the way, they are also going to make WRC 8 and release two rally games just one month apart from each other? It's been said before, that's financial suicide. With V-Rally 4 due in September, they cannot be the ones making the new WRC game. Dunno whether they are classed as AAA. A lot of them aren't even getting reviewed outside of the sim racing sites. What you say to me makes absolute sense. But then a lot of businesses do stuff that doesn't make much sense to me. I can't believe they don't know the significance of the number 8, and either it's a massive troll or a strong signal. We'll just have to keep on the look out for clues. My guess is we will know by end May for definite anyway. That's 2 months away.
  23. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    I think your stage was a really brave effort. I like the idea, but it just didn't quite work. Maybe with some slight alterations it could be better. There is a possibility as well that Codies could use a kind of hybrid between your stage and bespoke stages, ie use your stage to generate and then tweak the stages to make them more individual. This would be great method for constructing long rally stages. My guess is that codies have a ton of ideas on how to improve your stage. It's a matter of whether they get a chance to implement them. I spent some time thinking about the licence issues and found a couple of other bits of info on the net. My conclusion is that there is a strong chance that the licence has changed hands and therefore a strong chance that codies might have it. There are some hints from some time ago, but the real clue is that V rally announcement. I just can't see why they would release Vrally and a WRC game so close together in time. It seems to make no sense to me.
  24. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    I note they already have a significant amount of the environment. Out of 13 locations they have 7. The real question is how long do they have from signing of the licence to the game release. If the licence deal was signed around July then I guess it's possible.
  25. dirt3joe

    DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

    I’ve never touched setups before because I don’t understand it at all, but after looking at some tutorials on YouTube for dirt 4, the game is starting to make a lot more sense. The default setups make the handling seem awful I think devs often overlooks the importance of having well thought out setups. Only a few percent of the player base understand car dynamics well enough to tinker with the setups, and even if they do they just don't bother. There should be an advanced system for those who like to play around with setups, but also simple things like choosing if you prefer a stable understeering car or a lively oversteering car.  I really like they way Project Cars 2 utilizes the engineer in this case where you by simple options and statements explain what you want or where you have a problem, and the engineer suggests what changes needs to be made. This was a bit of an issue in PCars1. Some of the setups were so bad that the car was almost undriveable. The point was that setting up the car was part of the game, which worked well if you were really into that sort of thing, but not so well if you are a casual. Then in PCars 2 they have made it so you can grab other peoples setups. Which to me is a bit of a shame. They ought to find some better balance than what they have currently. The thing about PCars I love is that I can jump in any car without having to grind. The downside of this is that when a novice user tries this with say the Lotus 98T as their first car the game instantly gets labelled unplayable and returned/unrecommended. Some tough desing choices to make here. The game has to both cater for advanced users, but also provide a more gentle introduction to the advanced racers of the future.
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