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Posts posted by BrySkye

  1. About cheating... We are able to make Finland summer, create new skytextures, etc but how about fog reduction? Someone who makes amazing skytextures also have made 2 fog reduction-mods. So you can see further away. I contacted racedepartment if they could remove it, but they can't because Codemasters allow the creator to edit the fog. I was thinking that Codemasters should also "check" at login of the fog-file is not edited. 

    Here to two links:


    As you can see it clearly gives an advantage in fog. So Codies should prevent this or ban people :open_mouth: and what's next? No rain and snow? :worried: 
    Those mainly exist to help people having performance problems. Fog is often something that can be adjusted in games via sliders.
    I'd honestly call any benefit to peoples times super minimal.
    DR doesn't really have proper 'fog' where you really can't see far in front of you at all.
    It's more like mist. There to be atmospheric rather than challenging.

    Speaking of, @urgaffel the other day I noticed while on Monte in snow, at night, that the snow fall effects worked fine when driving in one direction, but when driving the other direction, such as after a hairpin, they would be flicking on/off every few seconds.
    Like someone turning a light switch on and off every other second.
    Dunno if that's something known or if anyone else has spotted it recently.

  2. austinb said:
    Haha how can you forget such information?!
    Because it was more than 3 months ago. :P
    I always remembered the info about no more CM/RB cars, but as a PC user of DR, as opposed to either console or being a dev, getting more official liveries isn't critical. After all, that particular livery had been ported from DiRT 3 within a week of DiRT Rally launching.
    Same way that no one really seems to be upset that the official Codemasters versions of the Computer Vision Metro and Esso Delta S4 aren't available, despite being shoved in our face by the official v1 trailer and on the Steam Workshop icons. :P 

    Just to be clear, I only remembered this message AFTER Paul said it had been figured out. 
    Call it the 'oh yeah' moment from which I suddenly started downplaying the Martini liveries.
    You're also not getting the full info, since the only thing that's really been clarified to the point of it being almost certain is the Impreza.
    Cars wise we probably aren't going to get any more that Burns and McRae drove but we do plan to add some more liveries that should represent McRae on the [redacted] and the [redacted] and maybe, just maybe on the Group A Impreza. You may have to wait till after Early Access ends for those to appear though.

  3. austinb said:

    - The original subaru from CMR aka the 22B WRC LOL 2K16.
    This, obviously, was in the older games, all of the CMR games in fact I think, so not this.
    Just to be clear, at the time that was posted the only information was that it hadn't been in a DiRT game.
     CMR is irrelevant.

     That said, it was unlikely anyway because my inside information was no new cars that CM or RB had driven.

     Do I have more inside information on the matter from back before Flying Finland was released that I had actually forgotten about until the weekend?

  4. sqdstr said:
    On twitter Paul said the new thing probably hasn't been featured in any of their games before

    -1 for Martini
    +1 for the 1995 SWRT Group A Impreza livery. That's never been in any Codies game for that car.

    (If it was the 2015 R4 Impreza, he would be 100% sure it had never been featured)

  5. When I said the 555 Subaru and Martini Focus, I was only referring to the censored versions which are far from uncommon in games.
    Both liveries are in the 'remade' Colin McRae Rally Mobile/Steam game (but have never been in a DiRT game).

    The thing is, these still need to be licensed. The Martini Stripes themselves are part of Martin's brand identity and IP, so even if you're not using the word Martini anywhere, you still need to license the use of the stripes in those specific colours.

    I did also caveat that new cars driven by CM/RB were, as of a couple of months ago, not happening.
    So I wouldn't hold my breath for that 1998 car.


    Re-evaluating something I'm privy to, I'm going to say it's not Martini.
    I have some reason to be pretty confident that it's the censored version of McRae's 1995 Impreza which, let's remember, was the livery the car wore in the season finale in Wales because of the UK's ban on tobacco advertising in sports.

    Even though it's censored, it's still poignent because it's still correct.

    As for the 2015 tribute R4 Impreza, bear in mind that while it's connection to Colin was somewhat talked up, it wasn't made for that purpose.
    It was to mark the 20th anniversary of Subaru's first WRC championship as a constructor and Subaru's heritage.
    Colin McRae just happened to be the driver.

  6. I'll throw my hat in then.


    I've known for a while that any new cars driven by Colin or RB was pretty much off the cards, but efforts were ongoing to secure more liveries that they had driven.
    So that could be Colin's 1995 championship winning Subary livery, to go with RB's 2001 example.
    And/Or it could be the Martini Racing Focus 01.
    Martini was a topic of discussion a few months ago, and Paul would definitely be thrilled to get those famous stripes on the games Lancia's.
    He's part Italian after all.

    That wouldn't matter so much to us PC gamers, but it's a pretty big deal for the un-moddable console versions.

    The only car I could see happening would be Colin's Impreza from the original Colin McRae Rally.

  7. gfRally said:
    Again the debate on terrain deformation is about a future title not current DR.  

    I know. It's such a big overhaul though that it would probably require an entirely new engine, or a version of EGO barely recognisable in order to get that working + have decent environment detail and stage length.
    That doesn't seem to be on the cards any time soon.
    Something more like DiRT Rally 3 in the distant future. Might even take the next generation of consoles to do it decently.
    The core issue though is that generally speaking, terrain deformation has typically proven to be too much effort and too big a part of the processing budget to make it worthwhile. Resources are prioritised elsewhere.
    I don't think that situation is going to change any time soon. 

  8. Yup, absolutely some would.

    That's why I prefaced that with "Personally" and "I think". :)
    I don't play the game for it's competitive multiplayer aspects, so you can see why it wouldn't be important to me.
    For me, multiplayer is really still all about 3 other friends on the same sofa sharing the screen, so I have much love for the DC version of V-Rally 2 and Colin McRae Rally 04 on the Xbox.
    Real life and families get in the way, but we still try to meet up every month or so for Smash Bros and Mario Kart 64.

  9. Whilst it could be a feature, I'd still think content in the form of cars, locations, liveries are still entirely possible.

    Personally, if it's just some kind of advanced anti-cheat system, I think that'd be the biggest damp squib in this entire DR gossipy world. Much more so than Lee hyping up the Zero Cars for them to be 3 new DR themed liveries (nice, don't get me wrong, but not exactly worth a hype train IMO).

  10. urgaffel said:
    The polygon density on the road in Sega Rally Revo is crazy :open_mouth: 
    Yeah, it was a 720p/30fps cap despite the somewhat simple nature of the general scenery and the cars (though this was at least in keeping with the Sega aesthetic).
    But it was far from solid on the consoles.

    The arcade version, Sega Rally 3 (which Jamie definitely did work on!) was 720p/60fps with Sega's Europa-R arcade board.
    Basically a PC.
    Intel Pentium D 945 (3.4 GHz, dual-core), 8GB RAM and a GeForce 8800.

    Actually, the Europa-R board is the same one used for the arcade version of GRID!

  11. MaXyMsrpl said:
    We should act like customers: we need feature A, we need feature B. That's all.
    Sorry, but I prefer not to just be blissfully ignorant of the realities of game design.
    I like to know and consider the compromises that are required to get a game out of the door. Where resources are allocated, how things are prioritised.
    I think the process is important.

    When people don't care about those aspects, they tend to descend into saying things like developers are just "lazy" when certain features aren't implemented, and that's something which irritates me.

    So please don't tell me that I should just want things and not care about what it takes to make it happen.

  12. austinb said:
    Could they perhaps make a handfull of different "stages" of  deformation. They would be a solid (not deformable) surface, that is shaped as if it has been deformed by previous cars, replicating a deformed surface. 
    For instance they could do a clean surface as we have now,  a surface after 3/4 cars, after 7/8, after 15, after 25, then a "last in the line" thats fully worn. I know its not a truly variable surface, but it could make it a bit more interesting with 6 or so different surface qualities.
    For a rally, is there much need to have the surface changing in real time as you go over it, if there's only AI following you? So they are basically predetermined settings much like "rubbered in" variants on circuit racing games. With the different being a physically difference surface is being swapped not just grip values.

    Edit: This could also allow for different surface models being used for weather conditions, such as more/deeper puddles in a heavy rain effected stage.
    It's still more polygons. A rut needs to be formed out of polygons and requires more of them than something flat.
    Think of it as the result being a big part of the problem, as opposed to the method of how you get there.
    In super laymens terms, think of drawing a single, flat, straight line.
    Then draw a rut out of straight lines. You need to draw more than one line to do it.

    We do already have some measure of deformation to  the game. We can usually see it in some parts of Greece, like the string of hairpins.
    Though I think it's just a purely visual effect.

    Let's also take a breather to think of the 'deformable' snowbanks in Sweden, they aren't really.
    There is a simulated feeling, and that's good enough for the driving, but the snow bank isn't physically changing.
    If you were to drive head on into one of those snow banks, then reverse out, there won't be any kind of imprint on the snow from the car.

  13. I wonder if it's possible to fake the 'physics' over the ruts, and have the ruts using that rendering technique i can't remember the name of for creating a non flat looking surface out of a flat surface.
    That'd be bump mapping, most likely. 
    Bump mapping is less intensive than raw polygons, but it's not very flexible and wouldn't help in this case.
    It's done through textures, which means it can't be rendered in a dynamic way. You can't really generate a truly random element through bump mapping.
    To say it again, reasons why it's still not a common feature. :P It's super intensive to do.

  14. What I was trying to get across is that rendering those grooves and ruts will dramatically increase the polygon count across the whole stage.

    The stages will be created to a polygon 'budget'. A max number of polygons to be in any stage as a combination of hitting certain stability and performance targets.
    If you were to take the current stages as they are and add the affects of cars going over the track to deform the terrain going over the whole length of the stage, the polygon count of rendering those extra details will shoot up exponentially.

    Whether or not it happens in real time or is calculated as part of the loading isn't necessarily the biggest hurdle.
    To use the Sega Rally method, you would take the current stage and add another layer of deformable polygons over the top of it.
    So things have to be taken away in order to free up the polygon budget enough to create this new deformable layer which can be manipulated, even if it's generated during loading.
    That would most likely be stage length.

    Remember the stages are already the length they are because of engine and memory limitations.
    Throwing a ton more detail in there means something has to be taken away.

  15. dotmartin said:
    BrySkye said:

    Like I've said, this isn't new tech by any means, but it's not a commonly adopted one.
    So ask yourself why it didn't become an industry standard after Sega Rally did it nearly a decade ago.
    To be fair, how much do we know about the tech that was in SEGA Rally at that time? How does it affect the physics of the car? Is the car just driving "on top" of everything and the groves are just visual flair? 
    We know a lot.
    Like I said, there were technical videos discussing the technology and showing how it worked.
    They completely affected the physics of the car, you can see that in the videos yourself.
    It was the games major selling point.
    It might not have been entirely realistic with how it did it, still a very much arcade style game after all, but if you played it, the affect they had was pretty striking. Staying precisely in the grooves would generally lead to faster and faster times each lap, but skipping out of them could be dramatic.

    Watch this from 4:10 
    I think it'll help everyone get a better understanding of what it involves.


  16. gfRally said:
    now about terrain deformation, I am talking about pre-simulating the change in terrain, not real time.  It would be great for real time sure, but it doesn't have to be real time for the effect to work on gameplay.  I'm not sure how to explain it clearly, but based on your position on the stage the game would simulate (mathematically) the other cars run and lines, even an off.  This would change the look of the road from a previous run.  If you are first on the road, then it will be clean, but you may not fine the best line or grip or what ever advantage/disadvantage that allows.
    It's still real time. It has to be in order to be dynamic.
    You might be able to to just use an algorithm to generate the track conditions, but the mesh of the road and it's surroundings has to be more complicated in order to be manipulated. The 'new' mesh is still being rendered in real time, even if you're not watching the changes being made, and would feature significantly more polygons than what is in the game right now.

    Like I've said, this isn't new tech by any means, but it's not a commonly adopted one.
    So ask yourself why it didn't become an industry standard after Sega Rally did it nearly a decade ago. 
    (plus then you have the issue of a level playing field given the nature of how Codies want the community aspect to be implemented - leaderboards & leagues)

  17. dgeesi0 said:
    it is obviously worth while its whether its worth their time to put in.

    this game is more enough done for pc users.so i cant see that being implemented in this game. unless modded in.
    It's more than time and money.
    It's also how significant a performance impact it might have and whether that would force things like significantly shorter stages.

    It's very much a case of if it's worth it or not.

    Always worth keeping a mind that Sega Rally had multiple cars on track and was also lap based, so the road evolution, especially in things like wet mud where all the cars would REALLY dig in and create massive grooves, was very significant.
    While the driving isn't the best, this shows how the mesh would deform depending on the type of surface it was representing.
    If you stayed in the grooves, they would get deeper every lap, and this deformation also expanded beyond the edges of the main road.
    You could even go deep enough into mud to reveal water underneath.
    To make it clear, this is the 3D mesh of the track actively changing, not just textures being applied and surface properties changing.
    As you can also see, stages in Sega Rally were also short.


  18. The thing is, a dynamic mesh that reacts in real-time requires massively more processing power than a static one and that's a big deal when it's applied to stages as long as those in DiRT Rally.

    Sega Racing Studio did a number of technical feature videos on the development of Sega Rally (Revo), including the dynamic road surface, but they were never uploaded to Youtube and had to be downloaded via PSN or Xbox Live. Who knows if they are still on those servers.

    It's worth keeping in mind that people who worked on Sega Rally Revo/Sega Rally 3 worked on DiRT Rally as well. Like our own @MrJamieLowes 
    So there are people on the DiRT Rally team that know all about implementing such a feature and just how worthwhile it is.