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BrySkye

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Posts posted by BrySkye


  1. austinb said:
    Ok i see that im wasting my time with the NZ thing, think whatever you like, PS corsica is also nothing like monaco it is much wider and faster, but again i will leave it at that.
    It's only a waste of time when you try to insist your opinion on something is 'right'. :)
    Most of use are just describing what the situation is, as opposed to what we think it should be.

  2. austinb said:
    Wales and NZ stages are not "just slightly different". Mexico for example is very similar to greece, San Remo is similar to Monaco (just in summer), lots of European Tarmac rallies are very similar. In conparison to them, Wales and NZ are hugely different.
    Yes, but those other examples aren't present opposed to each other in DiRT Rally either for the same reason (plus the whole issue of budgets).


  3. gfRally said:
    BUT

    How do other games get away with it and still produce a marketable game?  Assetto Corsa, F1, PCars or WRC all have a lot of similar looking places, however each venue is still unique.  

    Its early in the morning here, so I am just throwing this out with out thinking to hard on it.
    They have more quantity for one thing. It's a bit easier for circuit races because they just need to say much more than how many real world circuits are represented. Monacco, Silverstone, Sebring, Daytona, these have a bit more impact and can even be house hold names.
    For example, Gran Turismo 6 has 41 tracks and 81 distinct layouts. Even then there is a lot of variety for what it is ranging from Monacco, Goodwood Festival of Speed, the usual circuits, Japan street races at night and, quite literally, the MOON.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvj_BquEBec

    A lot of these games can also sell themselves on the strength of their car list and the variety of disciplines.

    WRC 5 has 65 unique stages available across 13 environments. Having more than double what DR has means they can be less distinct, plus they have to represent the actual WRC.
    WRC, F1, these are in part sold on the basis of their official license and representing the real event, teams, etc.

    DiRT Rally v1 has 12 unique stages with the rest being splitting those 12 in half or running them in the opposite direction.
    So that's a rather drastic reduction in comparison. It's less than even Sega Rally Revo, which also had 6 locations, but 3 stages per location.

    Sega Rally is a pretty good one to reference because of it. They made six trailers dedicated to each environment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjq_ks2yrXo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjIi4F3mao8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4xEqGbI_yY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T-wRlGSYuo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWxX8J9KoZ4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsPfzLeL48g

    (Saying as we mentioned Finland being similar to Wales, it's worth pointing out that the Finland we have in the game is in Autumn, itself an issue of contention, but does change the palette with the addition of browns and oranges compared to Wales, and generally nicer weather. This also came up in relation to Germany and one of the reasons for the German stages we do have, those having very very little in the way of forest sections, is for the same reason).

  4. austinb said:
    You seem to only be taking into account the visuals of the stages and not the actual layout and feel of them. The way the stages drive is a pretty much unique experience from anywhere in the world. The constant extreme camber and narrow roads would require a different driving style for sure. 
    You say how Malaysia has red mud and tropical plants... well so do the rally NZ stages... the foliage itself really separates it from wales visually as does the awesome landscape in general.
    I feel there is a misconception that NZ is the same as Wales, some parts are but lots of parts are very different with alpine type areas and tropical areas (where they have hot summers with huge storms).
    If done correctly the stages would look and feel very unique. 

    Watch at least half of this then tell me its too similar to Wales.
    You don't get it. I'm not sharing my personal opinion about New Zealand,
    I'm stating why it's not a wise choice from a design point of view when the choices are so limited.
    This is a -game-.
    When you have a small selection, and DiRT Rally does, the contrasts have to be night and day stark so that when your average person looks at the screenshots on the back of the box, they see very distinct palettes.
    Yes, I'm referring to the visuals. That's the point.

    No one -here- is saying Wales and New Zealand are actually the same for goodness sake.
    Watch the DiRT Show again and Paul's own words.
    Like I said, you can disagree all you want but it's not going to change the situation.

  5. BrySkye said:
    Maybe Skoda??????? Never in a DiRT game also never in a CMR
    Skoda were a regular in CMR.
    You are wrong Skoda werent regular in CMR, the ONLY Skoda in a codemasters game was the Skoda Felicia Kit Car in CMR1, i dont call regular to a Car manufacturer who have appeared only once in a 5 games saga and with only one car
    Fair enough, probably crossed a wire with V-Rally, but you said 'never', which is also wrong. :P 

    austinb said:
    I disagree that NZ is too similar to Wales, The both have sheep and forests and raid and mud... but despite that, the style of the stages and the mountainous terrain used in NZ rallies do make it very different
    You can disagree all you want, but it's a general observation for the masses. :P 
    It's in reference to the games palette. Yes, it's different, but it's not different -enough-.
    Paul said this himself, so that's something we just have to accept.

    When you only have 6-8 locations, every one has to be very different.
    Paul knows that and knows that at the end of the day, it's better for the game.
    Sometimes games design is going to conflict with the rally enthusiast inside us.

    That's why I've championed somewhere like Malaysia, which has a lot of distinct red soil/mud and tropical foliage completely unlike anything in the game right now.
    Australia would also hold up.
    Or possibly Japan which, while in some ways similar to Monte Carlo with a lot of hill-side tarmac sections, also tends to feature heavy rain with open Japanese countryside, rice paddies, etc, with more high speed sections.

  6. Maybe Skoda??????? Never in a DiRT game also never in a CMR
    Skoda were a regular in CMR.

    Porsche?  Possibly, though i'm not sure if they've never been in a CM game?  Paul was testing a Porsche internally, only as a concept though, his tweet at the time i *think* mentioned whether it would never happen or maybe never happen, anyone?
    New Zealand, stated by Paul to be something he's always wanted.....

    Not ready before console release isn't a 'thing' these days, next gen consoles are as update-able as PC's (just not in a decent time frame as PC's)
    It was in the Xmas DiRT Show that Paul said Porsche was flat-out impossible, so it was his 'if anything was possible' dream addition.
    New Zealand is also unlikely. Same show Paul himself said while he would love it, it's too similar to Wales to really make sense to add it to the current 6 locations. Something more unique would come first.

    Whilst console games can be updated, significant new features are still not the norm and it's something Codies have never attempted before on console formats.
    Certainly cars, liveries or locations could come later, but not a game changing feature.

  7. I'm really confident that most people don't bother with car settings at all, so even a playground or test track is only likely to be used by a tiny percentage.
    And really hardcore tuners would tweak and test their car setups to specific stages where a test track is useless.

    Since the release of the workshop integration and people downloading tuning setups from the likes of Porky etc, a lot of people have suddenly improved their times. People are downloading set-ups rather than making their own.
    Forza is another long standing example. You can buy tuning aps for that, as well as download setups which is what the vast majority of people do. 

  8. Haha, that was awesome! :D 

    If it was anything with IS it might not actually be too bad, but yeah, it would give him a drone-style show, with a lot of  'foot-steps'
    No IS would save that. Being on the end of a pole will have amplified every movement. Nothing short of a steadicam could cope with moving at that speed.

  9. sqdstr said:
    So, according to the most recent Road Book, no new PC patches until the console release?
    someone asked Paul on twitter about another update before console release and Paul said there'll be one
    Read that post. The way the question was asked makes it look like the PC update will release with the console versions, not before.
    I'm sure we'll get patches/updates to fix things. 

    New content is a different story.

    Although there are still currently two liveries AWOL that are heavily featured in the PC v1 trailer and on the workshop (Computer Vision Metro and Esso Delta S4)

  10. Darhour said:
    If ever DR2 would be going to release, at least it should be quite modifiable and crackable for mods. The engine itself should adopt mods of all sorts.

    Honestly, what the modders have done to DR with that damage model is just incredible; that would probably open many inquiries in possibilities of importing cars to the game. 
    There isn't much of a connection. Just about every EGO game has damage mods. It's basically just XML editing.
    Being able to compile 3D models into a compatible format is a very different kettle of fish. EGO's been around since 2007 and no ones managed to import new cars into it yet. Maybe DR will be the game to attract someone talented enough to really figure it out, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

    There's also the fact that significant modding causes problems. If you use that damage mod, you can't even save your game, so you can't play championships, earn money, buy cars or unlock upgrades when using it.
    We can't even swap car physics without causing problems.

    Honestly, a sequel isn't going to be more open than DR. If anything, security will be increased yet again. It's just not a mod-friendly engine and not a particularly mod-friendly studio.

  11. gfRally said:
    BrySkye said:
    gfRally said:.
     If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
    It's still pointless until we get the staggered starts with other cars on the stage at the same time back. Massive investment in tech for small gain otherwise.
    I don't think that'll happen until either a completely new engine is made or the stages are made shorter, more like in DiRT 3.
    And I don't think anyone really wants that.

    Umm l thought that was self explanatory in the post, kind of common sense if you read what I have posted many times before.  

    Engine overhaul is needed for ANY forward progress there have been many features that have been ask about that Paul and Co has replied that the current engine doesn't support.

    Which is why I emphasised that it's a very big technical investment for questionable gain. I meant terrain deformation itself, not a new engine that would enable it.

    Although Sega Rally (Revo) did it very, very well over 8 years ago, terrain deformation has not become a standard feature which is very telling.

  12. gfRally said:.
     If terrain deformation would be added, a muddy day in Wales would make for a whole new challenge, even more so if you are a few cars back in the order.  
    It's still pointless until we get the staggered starts with other cars on the stage at the same time back. Massive investment in tech for small gain otherwise.
    I don't think that'll happen until either a completely new engine is made or the stages are made shorter, more like in DiRT 3.
    And I don't think anyone really wants that.

  13. One of the reasons I mentioned Halo was that, in order to use features like the lowered weapon animation and the Pan-Cam, you HAD to put the game into local/LAN setup. They were all completely disabled in online modes, including even recordings of online games.
    This was done to ensure the code couldn't even potentially be exploited in online modes, and this is in a series of console games.
    It was always a source of contention because it vastly limited what machinima makers reliant on Xbox Live could do.
    Bungie went on record as saying the reason why was they couldn't afford or justify the costs of testing these very niche features sufficiently across all modes.

    With a PC game, the possibilities of exploits from releasing unrefined code, or code that hasn't been made sufficiently secure by the devs standards, are greater by orders of magnitude.
    So the reluctance to release something like that which hasn't be very rigorously tested or purpose built for the function (which brings with them a time and financial penalty) is far greater, especially in a game that is built around the concept of online leaderboards.
    People that are vocal about the problems with cheaters and how it needs to be fixed should be the last ones wanting untested code being openly left in the game.

    Don't get me wrong, I want the features and know many people could do great things with them.
    I've been making gaming videos, even professionally, years before Youtube itself even existed.
    It's that longer term experience, on both sides of the fence, which let me be a bit more informed and open minded about how many factors are involved in leaving any debug features in a modern game.

  14. dgeesi0 said:
    yes and those who make videos will make better videos which in-turn make for better sales.i really dont get why many games companies dont cater for people who do videos. its the best way of marketing their games for little outlay.

    make the best tools you can so people can show your great game in the best possible way.

    even just allowing the dev code for free roam would do.

    on skyrim as you mention how many record footage of going through the ground ? no one !!

    they make epic videos because thats what people want to watch.one day someone will grasp it. hopefully soon.

    you only have to look at battlefield 4 and what it did for that when a guy made a recording tool.


    You're looking at it too simply. I already said that with Skyrim, it's something that can only be done by knowing console commands, which is something the average player isn't going to do anything with (and it's only accessible in the PC version, not consoles).
    The people who take the time to look up those consoles commands and figure out how they work are, almost by default, interested in doing cooler things with them. They have something in mind from the beginning.
    Though that's not to say people don't use them to get to places they shouldn't.

    If something is put in as a feature, as opposed to the remnants of debug code, it needs to be of a certain standard.
    The theatre mode introduced to Halo in Halo 3 is a good example.
    That's a very powerful tool, but it also took a significant bit of budget to get it that way.
    Something that could be justified by being Microsofts flagship game series and also the popularity of Halo machinima. 
    But they still put in all kinds of measures to try and control just how much freedom you had, with invisible walls and reset-to-character parameters.
    It took some crafty gamers to find ways to break those limitations, like discovering if you killed the Master Chief by having him fall too far out of the map, the free camera wouldn't reset to him anymore, allowing you pretty much limitless freedom.
    With each new release though, Bungie reigned in how powerful it was. They key tool to getting the camera outside of boundaries was bumping up the camera speed via the hidden PanCam. http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Panoramic_Camera_Mode
    But in each game, the maximum camera speed was dialled back, making it harder and harder to get outside of boundaries with it.
    Even they were reluctant to having people do that.

    It's a potential double-edged sword, which is why many devs and publishers still have strong feelings about controlling how players use their work.

    There's also additional issues, such as how leaving in debug features can require additional testing to ensure they don't open up exploits elsewhere in the game.
    Going back to Halo, in order to assist in making machinima, Bungie put in button combinations in local play that would allow players to lower their weapons. This feature was locked out of any online modes to ensure it couldn't be exploited in some way to do weird things.
    Worth re-noting here that Skyrim isn't an online game.
    That 'little outlay' might not quite be as little as you think.

    So it has to be balanced between cost, time to implement and test, vs how much it might help additional sales.
    In something like GTAV, where it's allowed us to have cinematic videos of Humpback Whales randomly falling all over Los Santos, or a set of quite seriously made documentaries on the games wildlife, this is easier to justify.
    A video of DiRT Rally, not matter how cool, is unlikely to go viral.

    So much as I'd love it, there are plenty of reasons why it's an ultra-low priority or even considered to potentially cause more harm than good.
    That's why I had higher hopes (which were still mega low) of getting access to a dev build, rather than it being implemented in the release version.
    Whilst being offered the chance to visit Codies for a few days and have access to that and their video making gear is an astounding, and technically much much better offer, it's unfortunately not one I can really take up for a variety of financial and personal mental health issues.


  15. Seriously why it hasn't?
    Because they'd probably want to give it a pretty, polished GUI and also to impose additional restrictions like extra collision detection and invisible walls to try and prevent things like putting the camera through the ground, walls, the cars, etc.
    All things which don't matter at all in a dev build, because they aren't going to make videos or take screenshots from beneath the road looking up and other things that make a game 'look bad'.
    It's a lot of extra work, which is why it's a shame it can't be enabled through command lines or console commands, etc like in a Bethesda RPG, and so only really accessed by people that understand that sort of thing. 
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