welcome back devs ! enjoy your break ? lets clear the tables .

[RyuMakkuro 6]

The problem at hand is that... well, you can't race against each other, unless it's RX. So for those that are interested in the Rally only, the leaderboards are the "end game". In other words, those that do Rally for the experience and don't care about ranking, they don't look at the leaderboards so they aren't bothered whether it's full of cheaters or not. Which means all of those should leave this thread as it doesn't concern them. There should be a separate thread dedicated to giving some end game content to Rally.
The only way to fix the leaderboard issues is to make sure the anti-cheat measures put in place work and all cheating is dealt with before it even starts. Otherwise it's gonna be a witch hunt and no one can do anything about it.

When it comes to RX though, a ladder system could've been implemented, like the one in LoL, Starcraft II etc. But for that they first need to make RX playable, as infinite loading screens on every 2nd race kind of... make it all pointless. With RX, it's a lot easier to notice a cheater and what not as you're actually racing against them, so uber acceleration, teleporting, gripping like crazy etc. is basically out of question. But a proper anti-cheat would still be needed to be 100% sure. Some people need only few % improved grip, acceleration etc. to always win.

[enamel 0]

KevM said:

What ever happened to 'a gentleman's agreement'? :)

It is in private leagues.

Public lobbies and leaderboards are just too problematic to be useful for competitive gaming, no matter the game.

[TonyRickard 17]

.

RyuMakkuro said:

The problem at hand is that... well, you can't race against each other, unless it's RX. So for those that are interested in the Rally only, the leaderboards are the "end game". In other words, those that do Rally for the experience and don't care about ranking, they don't look at the leaderboards so they aren't bothered whether it's full of cheaters or not. Which means all of those should leave this thread as it doesn't concern them. There should be a separate thread dedicated to giving some end game content to Rally.
The only way to fix the leaderboard issues is to make sure the anti-cheat measures put in place work and all cheating is dealt with before it even starts. Otherwise it's gonna be a witch hunt and no one can do anything about it.

The point being made is that the core of DiRT Rally is single player with a career modes and multiple levels of target times. The online leaderboards aren't prominent within the UI, so the suggestion that anti-cheat measures are a #1 development priority is of interest to everyone so some degree of consensus can be formed.

Yes, of course any improvements are always welcome but whether it is a key topic for the vast majority of the user base is a serious question.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

TonyRickard said:

.The point being made is that the core of DiRT Rally is single player with a career modes and multiple levels of target times. The online leaderboards aren't prominent within the UI, so the suggestion that anti-cheat measures are a #1 development priority is of interest to everyone so some degree of consensus can be formed.

Yes, of course any improvements are always welcome but whether it is a key topic for the vast majority of the user base is a serious question.

And here I was thinking that I was clear enough. Seems not. Ok, let's put it this way.

This thread is not about whether leaderboards are the most important thing or not (they are obviously not) but about discussing everything related to cleaning the leaderboards from cheaters. In case it's not clear:
Time tables = Leaderboards

So anyone who wants to discuss about the fact that aside from leaderboards there's no end game for the rally side of the game and what improvements can be done to that... for the love of Lord Bahamut, please take it to a new thread. Keep the discussion here about cleaning the leaderboards. Pretty please.

TL;DR; You're in a wrong thread mate. It's about cleaning leaderboards from cheaters, not improving end game of rally mode.

[KevM 44]

Think of it a different way, instead of 'top 20' being the goal (that's 20 places), no reason why you can't think in terms of top 3-5 seconds.  Through time, 50-70% of the regular players could be separated by 5 seconds on a stage and if you are within 5 seconds of a true fastest time, then you have hope!  

So yes, it's a priority, especially if you are speaking of driver motivation and goals.

No point having a leaderboard with a top 15 that are unachievable times, if you don't have 'the cheat' at your disposal 

[teknoid85 444]

like i speak with ryu   it would be nice to know   how many cheaters are in the leaderboards.

he says a lot and not only on the top 100 and i'm tending to believe him


so it's not only a topten  problem

i wish to don't see cheaters from position 1 to 10000 ;)

[TonyRickard 17]

RyuMakkuro said:

And here I was thinking that I was clear enough. Seems not. Ok, let's put it this way.

This thread is not about whether leaderboards are the most important thing or not (they are obviously not) but about discussing everything related to cleaning the leaderboards from cheaters.

The OP suggested that "the devs have been off for a well earned christmas break but back at work this should be a priority". Seems pretty clear...

[teknoid85 444]

TonyRickard said:

RyuMakkuro said:

And here I was thinking that I was clear enough. Seems not. Ok, let's put it this way.

This thread is not about whether leaderboards are the most important thing or not (they are obviously not) but about discussing everything related to cleaning the leaderboards from cheaters.

The OP suggested that "the devs have been off for a well earned christmas break but back at work this should be a priority". Seems pretty clear...

it is a priority

[Cortextual 146]

Well, their main priority atm is the console version, if we're being honest. But in terms of this version, why shouldn't it be a priority, the rest of the game is already finished.

[enamel 0]

Sounds like Hatward is already doing exactly what the OP wanted, so this thread going two pages just seems silly at this point. :smile: 

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

KevM said:

Think of it a different way, instead of 'top 20' being the goal (that's 20 places), no reason why you can't think in terms of top 3-5 seconds.  Through time, 50-70% of the regular players could be separated by 5 seconds on a stage and if you are within 5 seconds of a true fastest time, then you have hope!  

So yes, it's a priority, especially if you are speaking of driver motivation and goals.

No point having a leaderboard with a top 15 that are unachievable times, if you don't have 'the cheat' at your disposal 

Not all top 15 times are unachievable. I got 6th on Route de Turini in a GRP A Escort last night.

https://youtu.be/u7eMcFpddks
 
Admittedly, it did take 2 days (and a complete retune of the car) to get from 12th to 6th. If you watch the video you can see that I can catch Greko's time, I've just got to stop clipping walls, and signposts, and cliffs.
I don't know whether I can find another 12 seconds in the Escort to catch Gonz, but there again, I didn't think I was going to crack the sub 7 minutes mark for ages.

[ramPage16 0]

KevM said:

So yes, it's a priority, especially if you are speaking of driver motivation and goals.

No point having a leaderboard with a top 15 that are unachievable times, if you don't have 'the cheat' at your disposal 

Man, it's ironic how you say you want some motivation, yet it's your own ignorance of the matter that holds you back. I'll say it again, there's no cheater epidemic that's preventing you or anyone else from getting a top time. Yes, it's clear to see there's quite a few blatant guys now in the 1st & 2nd places of the offline leaderboards, but to blow it out of proportion and claim it's the whole top 15(!) is laughable.

[dgeesi0 305]

its not the top 15 its mainly top 3 places if being honest but...doesn't matter if its only the top 1 spot ! it means that the times are irrelevant.

i know i can achieve those top 3 spots on any track any car but for cheaters i know i cant.that for me kills playing what is the best car game i ever played.which is sad.

[KevM 44]

ramPage16 said:

Man, it's ironic how you say you want some motivation, yet it's your own ignorance of the matter that holds you back. I'll say it again, there's no cheater epidemic that's preventing you or anyone else from getting a top time. Yes, it's clear to see there's quite a few blatant guys now in the 1st & 2nd places of the offline leaderboards, but to blow it out of proportion and claim it's the whole top 15(!) is laughable.

Oh dear...  You need to open your eyes and take your focus off ME for just a second @ramPage16 .  I didn't start this thread, or any of the other 'current' ones.  

I admittedly did pluck '15' out of thin air to be honest (I have numerous legitimate top 15 times), but why wouldn't '15' eventually become the truth if not tackled right now?

[RyuMakkuro 6]

ramPage16 said:
Yes, it's clear to see there's quite a few blatant guys now in the 1st & 2nd places of the offline leaderboards, but to blow it out of proportion and claim it's the whole top 15(!) is laughable.

You have about 20-30 people that are scoring blatant cheating results, but they are spread through stages, classes etc. Now then imagine that some of those don't always score blatant results and get in that top 15, where they may seem legit. Is the way they achieved that time legit though? Most likely not, since they already cheated.

It's not the time itself that matters, it's the fact someone cheated. Be it a "1 second wonder" or not even in Top 100, if they cheated their time, it's an issue. And on some stages the Top 10 can be full of cheating times, with first legit ones starting to pop from the 11th-12th place. Just because someone posted a legit time on stage, doesn't mean that the time is legit.

It's not the blatant cheating that is the issue, it's the cheating itself. Exactly what result is achieved with cheating is completely irrelevant.

TonyRickard said:

RyuMakkuro said:

And here I was thinking that I was clear enough. Seems not. Ok, let's put it this way.

This thread is not about whether leaderboards are the most important thing or not (they are obviously not) but about discussing everything related to cleaning the leaderboards from cheaters.

The OP suggested that "the devs have been off for a well earned christmas break but back at work this should be a priority". Seems pretty clear...

Yes, it's pretty clear it's ONE of the priorities, not the top priority. Notice the difference? Something can be a priority without being the top one as you can effectively work on few things, since after all, graphic artists won't really help much in the networking department for example.

There's a certain scene with Samuel L. Jackson that comes into my mind when I see things like this...

PS. Greko is a cheater.

[Cortextual 146]

I still really don't get what they get out of cheating anyway, even if they fool everyone else it's not like they gain any respect from anyone, we might think some shadowy figure called QueenRexy or w/e is a good player for a while but who cares. As soon as you use cheats you're doomed to live a half life, a cursed life... no, hang about, that's drinking the blood of a unicorn. 

As for how this thread has gone on so long, idk. People keep making stupid posts with references to Harry Potter lore that quite honestly have no place in a rally forum.

[TonyRickard 17]

RyuMakkuro said:

TonyRickard said:

RyuMakkuro said:

And here I was thinking that I was clear enough. Seems not. Ok, let's put it this way.

This thread is not about whether leaderboards are the most important thing or not (they are obviously not) but about discussing everything related to cleaning the leaderboards from cheaters.

The OP suggested that "the devs have been off for a well earned christmas break but back at work this should be a priority". Seems pretty clear...

Yes, it's pretty clear it's ONE of the priorities, not the top priority. Notice the difference? Something can be a priority without being the top one as you can effectively work on few things, since after all, graphic artists won't really help much in the networking department for example.

There's a certain scene with Samuel L. Jackson that comes into my mind when I see things like this...

Thanks for the basic project management lesson, much appreciated. My point was about the strategic direction; implementing comprehensive anti-cheat measures can be expensive in terms of labour and/or software licensing and it can change the dynamics of a game by becoming completely closed and whitelisting third party programs (which can be time consuming and very frustrating for users when a something like a new version of sweetfx or a gauge display program doesn't pass verification).

There is a fundamental question as to where multiplayer fits into the core strategy and is being a class leader in a multiplayer racing service similar to iRacing a key component? Otherwise what do we mean by "fix"?

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

RyuMakkuro said:

PS. Greko is a cheater.

He is? And I can catch him without using cheats? Awesome. :)  Whats the point in cheating if you are going to be beaten by people driving legit?

[Porkhammer 78]

Greko is not a cheater. He did set some dodgy times in the 2000's monthly a few weeks back, but this was due to the exhaust bug.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Porkhammer said:

Greko is not a cheater. He did set some dodgy times in the 2000's monthly a few weeks back, but this was due to the exhaust bug.

Abusing a bug = cheating.

[Cortextual 146]

RyuMakkuro said:

Porkhammer said:

Greko is not a cheater. He did set some dodgy times in the 2000's monthly a few weeks back, but this was due to the exhaust bug.

Abusing a bug = cheating.

Kinda depends if you do it intentionally.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Cortextual said:

RyuMakkuro said:

Porkhammer said:

Greko is not a cheater. He did set some dodgy times in the 2000's monthly a few weeks back, but this was due to the exhaust bug.

Abusing a bug = cheating.

Kinda depends if you do it intentionally.

I don't see how not repairing exhaust can be done unintentionally.

[Cortextual 146]

RyuMakkuro said:

Cortextual said:

RyuMakkuro said:

Porkhammer said:

Greko is not a cheater. He did set some dodgy times in the 2000's monthly a few weeks back, but this was due to the exhaust bug.

Abusing a bug = cheating.

Kinda depends if you do it intentionally.

I don't see how not repairing exhaust can be done unintentionally.

I don't see how.... your face!

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Cortextual said:

RyuMakkuro said:

Cortextual said:

RyuMakkuro said:

Porkhammer said:

Greko is not a cheater. He did set some dodgy times in the 2000's monthly a few weeks back, but this was due to the exhaust bug.

Abusing a bug = cheating.

Kinda depends if you do it intentionally.

I don't see how not repairing exhaust can be done unintentionally.

I don't see how.... your face!

You better be glad you don't see it, otherwise you've been dead. It's my last line of defence against assassinations xD

[Cortextual 146]

Aww, I'm sure you're beautiful.                                                                    <3