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The Confusing Car Name Thread: S1/E2, 22B/WRC etc…

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As we keep getting reoccurring posts on the naming of certain cars, I thought I would compile a thread with all the answers in one place. So, for any future discussions, people can be directed here.

If you’re here because someone has linked you to this thread, then chances are you have posted one of the dreaded trigger words. Now what did you say?

I said S1E2.
Go to post 2.

I said 22B.

Go to post 3.

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Uh oh. You saw an Audi with a big wing and called it an S1E2, didn’t you? This is a common mix up, so read on for enlightenment…

Hang on, there are a ton of pages on the internet that all say “S1E2”, are you telling me they are all wrong?

Unfortunately the incorrect designation has been quoted and printed so many times now, most have accepted it as fact. Not convinced? Well click here…

 http://www.ableitet.no/twentyS1/s1vse2.htm

…for the full story on the origins of the error and all the facts.

Thanks, but I haven’t got time to read all that. Make it simple for me.  

OK, well this is an Audi Sport quattro...

84-Audi-Sport-Quattro-DV-10-MC_01.jpg

...this was the base model, which was made available to the public through Audi dealerships. With 200 of these in existence the Sport quattro was eligible for Group B and, as per the regulations, Audi were then allowed to develop 20 evolution models for motorsport. This first motorsport evolution model was designated the Audi Sport quattro S1...

2006FOS_1985AudiQuattroS1PikesPeak.jpg

...and was homologated in May 1984. Audi Sport quattro S1 is the identity of the car as it appears on those homologation forms. 

At the end of 1984 a new FISA ruling meant that all further evolution models had to be identified by the letter "E". Thus, where the second evolution of the Audi Sport quattro would have been the Audi Sport quattro S2, it instead became the Audi Sport quattro E2...


05e8c8a3814f9bce52b569dd6d9b409f.jpg

...the term "S1E2" is incorrect as it is in direct contradiction to the FISA regulations of the era, plus it doesn't follow with the Audi system for classification of rally cars (consider the designations that Audi used for the evolutions of the original Group 4 UR quattro. I.e. “A1” and “A2”).

Other than the aerodynamics, the E2 was a different car under the skin: the engine was revised and the drivetrain (including the gearbox) had been altered, so it's a very different car to the S1. 

Edited by tbtstt
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Uh oh. You saw a classic Impreza with wide arches and called it a 22B, didn’t you? This is a common mix up, read on for enlightenment…  

OK smart arse, if it’s not a 22B, then what is it? 

Prodrive used "S" prefixed numbers to designate the various generations of Impreza World Rally Car they built. The '97 World Rally Car was the S4 and they continued from there. The full list per year is:

1997 - Impreza S4 WRC
1998/1999 - Impreza S5 WRC (the '99 car had some improvements over the '98 car, but retained the same S5 designation)
2000 - Impreza S6 WRC (also known as the P2000)
2001 - Impreza S7 WRC
2002 - Impreza S8 WRC
2003 - Impreza S9 WRC
2004 - Impreza S10 WRC
2005 - Impreza S11 WRC
2006 - Impreza S12 WRC
2007 - Impreza S12b WRC
2008 - Impreza S14 WRC

So, depending on the particular year of "classic" shape Impreza you are looking at, it’s either a S4 Impreza WRC, an S5 Impreza WRC or an S6 Impreza WRC.

Got it. Got any more useless Prodrive/Impreza naming facts?

Prodrive also used a similar system for their Group N cars, except these are identified by an "N" prefix, not an "S".  

The only exception to the rule is the 2007 Impreza WRC, which was identified as the S12b WRC (rather than S13 as you would expect). The Japanese are a superstitious bunch and so Prodrive avoided the number with their car designation! 

There is also an interesting anomaly late in the history of SWRT as, when the S14 wasn't ready for in time, they put an S14 engine into an S12b chassis: that car (KT57 SRT) became a one off S12c. 

That’s all great, but where does the 22B fit in?

The 22B was a road car released in 1998 and designed to emulate the look of the 1997/1998 Impreza World Rally Car. The two door, wide arch, Impreza World Rally Cars were on stages for well over a year before the 22B hit showrooms and its name is actually homage to the rally car: "22B" is hexdecimal for "555". 

There is a lot of confusion between the 22B and the World Rally Cars of the era. This is compounded by the fact that there are a huge number of online articles about the 22B that contain incorrect information. 

Officially there were 424 22B's (400 for the JDM, 24 for export). Of the 24 export cars, 16 were for the UK, 5 for Australia and 3 were prototypes. As with a lot of Subaru limited edition runs though, some of the numbers are a little hazy. It was originally stated that there were three #000 prototype cars (which were given to Colin McRae, Nicky Grist and David Lapworth), however a #000 was recently identified in the STI Mitaka showroom, which implies there were four #000 cars (I have subsequently read that David Lapworth actually got #400, but that's not been verified). 

But they look pretty similar. How can you be so sure that’s not a privateer with a 22B on the rally stage?

Well first up – and as mentioned above – the 22B was a limited edition road car, so only a loon would risk bending one on a rally stage.

Critically though, the 22B was fitted with a 2.2L engine: WRC regulations of the era limited turbo cars to 2.0L so, by its very nature, the 22B couldn't be a rally car. Incidentally, although they look similar, the S4 WRC and 22B have different panels. If you look at the two side-by-side you can see it, it's most noticeable around the front end and rear arches.

Edited by tbtstt
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Is it "Reliant Robin" or "Robin Reliant" ?
Reliant Robin. Wikipedia has got this one right and there is no excuse for the latter! :smiley: 

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tbtstt said:
Is it "Reliant Robin" or "Robin Reliant" ?
In this game? It's called RS200 ;)

The only Reliant product that everyone wants in a rally game!  ;)
Only because most people don't realise Del Boy and Rodney actually had a Reliant Regal!

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What do we make of this, from Scalextric?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/VirtuaIceMan/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160216_155658.jpg
The amount of cheapness in that is almost offending.

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What do we make of this, from Scalectrix:

That someone at Scalextric needs to do some more research @VirtuaIceMan! 

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Oddly if you look at the Sport quattro range on the Scalextric website...

http://www.scalextric.com/uk-en/catalogsearch/result/?q=sport+quattro

...the evolution cars are all correctly designated "E2" apart from the one you have pictured: the researchers must have had a day off when they released that car. :smiley:  

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Alright, question time for the 22b or similar? 

555 branded car released officially?  Embroidered seat with 555 ?

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STi Type R 555 V-limited.                           

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Alright, question time for the 22b or similar? 

555 branded car released officially?  Embroidered seat with 555 ?
There have been a lot of limited edition Subaru road cars @F2CMaDMaXX . I can only recall one that was available with 555 decals from factory, which was the Version II STi. Tweaked versions of the STi were produced for each generation year from 1996 onwards, these "V-Limited" cars were produced in limited numbers, with the total available being 555 for the first few years.

There is a good guide on the JDM four door classic STi Impreza limited editions on the Impreza555 site:

http://www.impreza555.com/road.htm

There were also a similar run of V-Limited editions for the two door (Type R) Impreza's from 1996 onwards, as @KevM mentions, some of these (I think Version V and possibly Version VI STi Type R's) were produced in a limited batch size of 555 cars. There have been several V-Limited newage (2001 onwards) Imprezas and newage Imprezas were also produced in "Spec C" forms for the Japanese market, which were essentially base cars for competition use. The JDM also got the S20x range (S201, S202, S203 etc.) which continues to this day. The "S" variants are more track than rally focused though, so no rally branding there. 

We got a load of Impreza special editions in the UK; the Series McRae (1995, 4 door, 200 built), Catalunya (1996, 4 door), Terzo (1997, 4 door, 333 built), 22B (1998, 2 door, 424 built, 16 official UK models), RB5 (1999, 4 door, 444 built), P1 (1999, 2 door, 1000 built), UK300 (2001, 4 door, 300 built), WR1 (2004, 4 door, 500 built) and RB320 (2007, 4 door, 320 built). None of these were available in full rally colours, but the Series McRae, Catalunya, Terzo and WR1 all included rally related decals. And of course the RB5 and RB320 were both produced in honour of Richard Burns.

555 branding cropped up quite a bit in the early JDM special editions, but wasn't as prevalent on the first newages and of course it completely disappeared from 2003 onwards. 

As for the 22B, that was only ever released in blue and without decals. I have seen one stickered up (at a Prodrive meet years ago) but that was done by the owner and not the factory/dealership! 
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Top Gear didn't get involved with the S1/E2 debate, they just called it Audi Quattro: http://www.topgear.com/car-news/classic/20-lovely-things-london-classic-car-show#10

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This is probably a stupid question, but it's better to be silly rather than ignorant :)

The Group B Audi Quattro in Dirt Rally is the S1, right?

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NLT said:
This is probably a stupid question, but it's better to be silly rather than ignorant :)

The Group B Audi Quattro in Dirt Rally is the S1, right?
Yes indeed, the Group B rally car is a Sport Quattro S1. :smile: 

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Since this applies to the "confusing" part of the topic.  There was a lot of questions and accusations about the current Subaru R4, if it was taken out of the R4 category and allowed to be a proper WRC version.  It would look like this:




Pointing out the big wing!  Paul was quoted that it was the old Rally America version, which isn't entirely true.  The 2008 RA version (Proper name VS2008) indeed used the lower profile factory wing.  It wasn't until 2009 did they adopt (acquire?) the WRC wing, probably were leftovers from Subarus WRC exit.  

BTW:  All Vermont Sportscar ID their cars with VSyear or VSXyear for RallyX

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Right, and to confirm anything else re this car in-game; it's the R4 class/spec, but looks different to the R4 in real life.

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