An open letter to CODEMASTERS and DIRT players

[Fedemaisonnave 48]

Who do you think is the author?
Who his body is 9 letters short

[KevM 44]

It was going ok til the bit about opposite lock FFB.  That confused me lots, but then saying he preferred V1 and adding a tad more gravity to improve the game, that lost me completely.  Im from the 'DiRT is still too grippy & stages are too wide' camp.  

[RyuMakkuro 6]

JZStudios said:
1. This isn't a sim.

Every single game that tries to simulate real life physics/behaviour etc. as closely as possible is a simulator. Arcade refers to the fact you're simplifying aspects of the physics/gameplay where otherwise you would try to make it as close as possible to real life. Simcade is basically half simplifying half simulation. Keep in mind that the "half simplifying" part is not forced by hardware/software/time limitations but a fully aware decision made by developers on what parts they want to simplify to achieve the result they are aiming for.

DR is a simulator, not 100% accurate obviously. There isn't a single simulator that is 100% accurate, probably never will be as we don't have full understanding of the physics ourselves. However the fact that the only "simplified" parts in DR come from hardware limitations or time constraints, like the damage model for example points it's a full on proper simulator completely true to the definition.

And yes, Codemasters aim for "authentic" experience simply because the only way to get a realistic rally experience... is to be able to feel every single thing you would've if you would be sitting in an actual rally car, going through an actual rally stage. Until we get some crazy virtual reality stuff that we'll be playing through our minds (that's for now more science fiction than anything even remotely achievable), anyone who even mentions "realistic experience" when it comes to a video game is basically a hypocrite (maybe apart from chess). Video games for now can only be authentic, aka representative of the real life. Realistic experience, as the name suggests, points at the fact it's an experience 100% accurate to the one in real life. Thus again it's unachievable on our current stage of development.

Just my few cents on this part. Sorry for off-topic. I simply can't stand when someone is spitting misinformation and other kind of BS due to not understanding some concepts.

Though on the subject at hand, I just want to add one thing. Ban those cheaters. Permanently. Every single one of them. Without hesitation, no second chances. If they come back, that means they bought another copy of the game, which is more money for the next game or increasing the chance of getting a "V3" physics in the DiRT Rally lifetime still.

[chukonu 476]

SkiddyMcCrash said:

But I do ban for 2nd accounts and for also accusing other players of cheating (both are against the rules you agreed to when you signed up for both accounts).

I'll just walk into this thread ignoring everything and ask where I can find the rules I agreed with upon making my account. :D

[Porkhammer 78]

chukonu said:

SkiddyMcCrash said:

But I do ban for 2nd accounts and for also accusing other players of cheating (both are against the rules you agreed to when you signed up for both accounts).

I'll just walk into this thread ignoring everything and ask where I can find the rules I agreed with upon making my account. :D

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7/forum-rules#latest

[function9 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

Every single game that tries to simulate real life physics/behaviour etc. as closely as possible is a simulator. Arcade refers to the fact you're simplifying aspects of the physics/gameplay where otherwise you would try to make it as close as possible to real life. Simcade is basically half simplifying half simulation. Keep in mind that the "half simplifying" part is not forced by hardware/software/time limitations but a fully aware decision made by developers on what parts they want to simplify to achieve the result they are aiming for.

DR is a simulator, not 100% accurate obviously. There isn't a single simulator that is 100% accurate, probably never will be as we don't have full understanding of the physics ourselves. However the fact that the only "simplified" parts in DR come from hardware limitations or time constraints, like the damage model for example points it's a full on proper simulator completely true to the definition.

You mean like the damage system? Collision behavior (and no, you don't need full blown soft body physics to have a more believable behavior in game) ? Behavior when the car is airborne? Unscathed barrel rolls at speed? No tire selection? Things that even their own games didn't have (barrel rolling) or things that were in their games 10+ years ago.

The damage system that's in the game is due to hardware or time restraints? Really? I could've sworn Kickup stated they wanted the damage system lenient so people would finish. Sounds like what you'd call, "a fully aware decision made by developers on what parts they want to simplify to achieve the result they are aiming for." Especially when there's a damage mod that shows just how much the engine is actually capable of with no impact on performance when I tried it. Certainly seems like "a fully aware decision" to me.

I mean, from what you say, even WRC5 would be a sim. I believe the physics guy that worked on that said over on racedepartment that they didn't have enough time to go too deep into the physics this time around.

[chukonu 476]

Porkhammer said:

chukonu said:

SkiddyMcCrash said:

But I do ban for 2nd accounts and for also accusing other players of cheating (both are against the rules you agreed to when you signed up for both accounts).

I'll just walk into this thread ignoring everything and ask where I can find the rules I agreed with upon making my account. :D

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7/forum-rules#latest

Oh, right, thanks. <3
Sorry for offtopic and stuff. I wish there was a way to post without bumping threads.

[xkevlarx 0]

rs200wrx said:Surely top level physics should be at the root of any game? Less time spent on making the trees look pretty and having people queueing for the portaloo on the sweet lamb spectator area might have gone into sorting the physics shortcomings. 

No, you need to keep the level designers and graphic artists busy and as far away from the physics code as possible.

[bogani 756]

Rallycameraman said:

Ooooo Skiddy tell us who it is :p I don't come on here very often any more I just play the game for a hour or 2 a day and that's enough for me now. Set a couple of WR on the Germany and Monte stages with the 306 Maxi and just having a bit of fun these days. I've got a real rally car to get sorted, haven't driven it since January and I'm getting itchy feet now!!

Make sure you apply the gravity hack on your IRL car. A ton of bricks allover the floor should do it ;)

[tbtstt 2,387]

bogani said:

Rallycameraman said:

Ooooo Skiddy tell us who it is :p I don't come on here very often any more I just play the game for a hour or 2 a day and that's enough for me now. Set a couple of WR on the Germany and Monte stages with the 306 Maxi and just having a bit of fun these days. I've got a real rally car to get sorted, haven't driven it since January and I'm getting itchy feet now!!

Make sure you apply the gravity hack on your IRL car. A ton of bricks allover the floor should do it ;)

MASSIVE OFF TOPIC: Not sure on the rules for rally cars, but the rules for rallycross were actually revised a few years ago concerning the allocation of weight, as some were using it to gain an unfair advantage!

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Fedemaisonnave said:

Who do you think is the author?

This guy

[dgeesi0 305]

rs200wrx said:

Surely adding weight to a car in the game however that works will make it slower?

remember back in the days with rwd cars people would add concrete slabs or ballast in the boot :D

[KevM 44]

dgeesi0 said:

rs200wrx said:

Surely adding weight to a car in the game however that works will make it slower?

remember back in the days with rwd cars people would add concrete slabs or ballast in the boot :D

The BMW boys still do, when the snow comes! :D

[YoMrWhite 11]

dgeesi0 said:

rs200wrx said:

Surely adding weight to a car in the game however that works will make it slower?

remember back in the days with rwd cars people would add concrete slabs or ballast in the boot :D

Teams also had lightweight cars only for some events, mainly Corsica. For loose surfaces they added as much ballast on the rear axle as possible without getting too heavy.

In San Remo 1980, Walter Röhrl had to drive a special lightweight Fiat 131 designed for Corsica because of a workers strike which prevented the team from using the cars that were prepared for San Remo. It worked great on tarmac, but on gravel, they lost lots of time and had to put additional weight on the rear axle (pieces of lead in the trunk/boot).

[PaloSamo 0]

Of course the devs made a conscious and deliberate decision to go for a forgiving damage model. It is a video game that need to appeal to casual players as well. In fact, I think console version was in plans right from the beginning.

[bogani 756]

PaloSamo said:

Of course the devs made a conscious and deliberate decision to go for a forgiving damage model. It is a video game that need to appeal to casual players as well. In fact, I think console version was in plans right from the beginning.

I believe Paul said somewhere that they were about to evolve the damage model, but that the unplanned V2 physics pass got the attention instead.

[Dytut 89]

rs200wrx said:

Surely adding weight to a car in the game however that works will make it slower?

I think the cheats only add downforce, not weight. If you'd add more weight it would make the car more sluggish and heavier, but if it's only downforce it doesn't effect acceleration that much, only makes the wheels bite into the surface better.

[bogani 756]

dgeesi0 said:

rs200wrx said:

Surely adding weight to a car in the game however that works will make it slower?

remember back in the days with rwd cars people would add concrete slabs or ballast in the boot :D

We always bolted on flywheels, cylinder heads etc over the rear axle on our Folkrace cars to get as much traction as possible on the start. Fun times :)

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

4 minutes left "cossierally"                                         

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Fair enough.                                                      

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Both banned.                                                                                             

[KevM 44]

Well, I guessed that outcome (without telemetry) lol!            

                                      

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Yeah, so did I tbh. You made me laugh yesterday when you pm'd me and told me it wasn't you straight away

[KevM 44]

:D  Yeah, I bet I wasn't the only one who had me down as No.1 suspect!  

[dynt 0]

I am still trying to work out how a ban is actually applicable, having read thru the rules and regs.