The Cheat Thread

[Subiesauce 0]

Only thing I can think of CM doing from your complaint list is locked camera options for leagues, like they are in RX now. 

That's one thing i don't understand, locked camera options means that you have to play in the "interior" view or the dash view.. When you play with the first person camera you see the wheel you're holding and the one in the game and even if you turn the wheel ingame off you still see a windscreen on your screen/monitor.. Imagine when you're driving and looking out of your windshield you see another wheel, interior, windshield.. it's just wrong.. The dash is slightly better but it still is wrong, you see another windshield, and you can't see as much as you would do in real life.. The most realistic view is still bonnet cam..

[Kakkela 3]

Subiesauce said:

Only thing I can think of CM doing from your complaint list is locked camera options for leagues, like they are in RX now. 

That's one thing i don't understand, locked camera options means that you have to play in the "interior" view or the dash view.. When you play with the first person camera you see the wheel you're holding and the one in the game and even if you turn the wheel ingame off you still see a windscreen on your screen/monitor.. Imagine when you're driving and looking out of your windshield you see another wheel, interior, windshield.. it's just wrong.. The dash is slightly better but it still is wrong, you see another windshield, and you can't see as much as you would do in real life.. The most realistic view is still bonnet cam..

I don't see problem here, actually it's better if you don't see as wide as you would in real life. Proper FoV is important when driving fast. It also helps because you don't see interior that much anymore after you use proper FoV. See this video for more information:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yYeiAHsdr0

And then use dashcam + modified camera files to anable in-game FoV slider for dashcam http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/dash-cam-fov-enable.7851/ 
Prover FoV calculation and DiRT options values are explained in sticky post.

[BadD0g 0]

The DOR, cameras, and FOV are called "preferences" for a reason. They're preferences. Everyone's different. Everyone has different preferences. Can we talk about cheating now? This is the cheat thread after all.

[dynt 0]

RinusRally said:

Kakkela said:

RinusRally said:

For less twitchy feeling you can always decrease or increase camber angle (differs per car), you can lower the suspension, etc. 

You could modify your steering rack in real life too, degrees are just that. Is it cheating when you change steering ratio in iRacing oval car setups? Hell no!

Of course they could adjust it in real life, but Codemasters has:

1080 degrees

• FIAT 131 Abarth

900 degrees

• Mini Cooper S
• Lancia Fulvia HF
• Ford Escort Mk II
• Lancia Stratos
• Peugeot 205 T16 Evo 2
• Lancia Delta S4
• MG Metro 6R4
• Peugeot 205 T16 Pikes Peak

720 degrees

• Audi Sport Quattro Rallye
• Ford RS200
• Ford Sierra Cosworth RS500
• BMW E30 M3 Evo Rally
• Lancia Delta HF Integrale
• Ford Escort RS Cosworth
• Subaru Impreza 1995
• Audi Sport Quattro S1 Pikes Peak
• Peugeot 405 T16 Pikes Peak

540 degrees

• Ford Fiesta RS Rally Car
• Mini Countryman Rally Edition

Copied from a old roadbook

So the most cars are all above 540 degrees. So if you use 180/270/360/540 for all these cars you basically gain a advantage towards people who drove these cars how they have to be driven according to real life, and how Codemasters put them into the game and gamemechanics. So I do suggest we need either filters for leader boards of we need to separate the leaderboards.

Also stated in this topic people do agree that less DOF gives the player an advantage so its on Codemasters side to also give constructive feedback in this topic. 

Does Codemasters want to create a realistic simulation enivoriment where people can experience rallying, history of rallying, the endurance aspact of rallying, and how older cars were driven back in day.. or does Codemasters want to gain customers and thus generating money with a community that want a sim but using non-realisim simulation gamemechanics and exploits where people gain the fastest time no matter what DOF, camera, etc etc. 

In my opinion if Codemasters want the second Dirt Rally is just a modded Dirt 1 2 3 for the arcade crowd that can brag on the internet they are good in Rally sims, but nobody knows they actually using low DOR's, low FFB, exteriorcams and more. 

The one major problem with this is that many of the above cars where homologated with options, there was various steering rack ratio combinations.
The above specs are only given as a average they do not represent all available options.

[xkevlarx 0]

I used DFEX with 200 dor for years and when I moved to DFGT 900 dor I felt my driving got better. Naturally there is an advantage of going to fast full lock in low dor, but at the same time higher dor offers more precision and finesse.  There are people with disabilities, that need to have a lower dor to be able to play. Playing with one hand and 900 dor funfunfun. Also the FOV is something that most definitely should not be locked. People play with so many different setups (screen size, height, distance) forcing locked fov on everyone is just wrong. Who's setup is used for reference fov? I bet it would be Ivy's. That would be fair to everyone.  And people with motion sickness need to have a fov scaling to be able to play at.

[MrDeap 12]

I went faster than a sick amount of users with my new XBOX One gamepad.

75th on the leaderboard(Iso Oksjärvi (sprint) E30 ): Telemetry included
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeD9DMzLJYQ

[dynt 0]

Porkhammer said:

Kakkela said:

Fedemaisonnave said:

It is getting off-topic but getting a benchmark of a Pro driver will be the best way to keep the cheaters out, codies call Abbring or Any Pro and like Raceroom you can race against the pro's and any time much faster than theirs it is possible to be cheating also

That would be ideal if game is really simulated to almost perfection, but it isn't. Being pro in real life doesn't mean shit in simcade game.
Ofc they can tell how they think car feels off and give feedback to make it better, but their times can't be used as benchmark.

Pretty much this. Just because they're good in real life doesn't mean they're good at Dirt Rally.
Just use the finns as benchmarks and all is good!

I was good in real life and am no slouch in game mode either, in the immortal words of Marku Alen "maybe is because I am super driver" :)

[Porkhammer 78]

dynt said:

Porkhammer said:

Kakkela said:

Fedemaisonnave said:

It is getting off-topic but getting a benchmark of a Pro driver will be the best way to keep the cheaters out, codies call Abbring or Any Pro and like Raceroom you can race against the pro's and any time much faster than theirs it is possible to be cheating also

That would be ideal if game is really simulated to almost perfection, but it isn't. Being pro in real life doesn't mean shit in simcade game.
Ofc they can tell how they think car feels off and give feedback to make it better, but their times can't be used as benchmark.

Pretty much this. Just because they're good in real life doesn't mean they're good at Dirt Rally.
Just use the finns as benchmarks and all is good!

I was good in real life and am no slouch in game mode either, in the immortal words of Marku Alen "maybe is because I am super driver" :)

I mean no disrespect; of course you can be good at both! But like Kakkela pointed out, it's not an "automatic" thing; there are people that are terrible at driving games, even though they're awesome at driving in real life - and this, of course, also applies the other way around.

[dynt 0]

Porkhammer said:

dynt said:

Porkhammer said:

Kakkela said:

Fedemaisonnave said:

It is getting off-topic but getting a benchmark of a Pro driver will be the best way to keep the cheaters out, codies call Abbring or Any Pro and like Raceroom you can race against the pro's and any time much faster than theirs it is possible to be cheating also

That would be ideal if game is really simulated to almost perfection, but it isn't. Being pro in real life doesn't mean shit in simcade game.
Ofc they can tell how they think car feels off and give feedback to make it better, but their times can't be used as benchmark.

Pretty much this. Just because they're good in real life doesn't mean they're good at Dirt Rally.
Just use the finns as benchmarks and all is good!

I was good in real life and am no slouch in game mode either, in the immortal words of Marku Alen "maybe is because I am super driver" :)

I mean no disrespect; of course you can be good at both! But like Kakkela pointed out, it's not an "automatic" thing; there are people that are terrible at driving games, even though they're awesome at driving in real life - and this, of course, also applies the other way around.

You most definitely have to pay your dues in both areas neither discipline guarantees success in the other, but the principles of car setup are advantageous. 

[PaloSamo 0]

Another option in-game is Graphic Setting. After setting it to Ultra Low the rain and snow no longer pose a threat to visibility. Not a cheat, but unfair advantage maybe?

[dynt 0]

Actually thinking about it I have had a few extra thoughts,

What makes Porkhammer so quick if you study his videos is that he is incredibly smooth and tidy, which replicate's Seb Loebs style in many ways.

Next 'lines ' there is way more leeway for correct lines than appears the case, once you put in the time this because more obvious as progress on in game mode.

These two prerequisites are just as important in real life as they are in game mode.

So I think the issue is not that real life driving skills aren't the same as game skills, but its more about learning how to apply those skills to a game.

[KevM 44]

dynt said:

Actually thinking about it I have had a few extra thoughts,

What makes Porkhammer so quick if you study his videos is that he is incredibly smooth and tidy, which replicate's Seb Loebs style in many ways.

Next 'lines ' there is way more leeway for correct lines than appears the case, once you put in the time this because more obvious as progress on in game mode.

These two prerequisites are just as important in real life as they are in game mode.

So I think the issue is not that real life driving skills aren't the same as game skills, but its more about learning how to apply those skills to a game.

I have been thinking too...

I can equal & beat 'Top Times', but only in modern 4WD in Finland.  
As we know, Finland is pretty flat out stuff.  Most corners are 4th/5th/6th gear and taken pinned.  Lines, car balance and carrying speed is key, which I have no problem with.  Because of the fast flowing nature, additional grip as per a trainer, isn't so big of an advantage, it only has around 3 tight corners per stage to 'grip' on.  

I know how to drive lines, carry speed and manage grip, but i cant get near the times on any other stages, where Additional lateral corner grip/accel. grip/braking grip would give a larger gains.  The physics I drive just aren't capable of it.  Twisty gravel, Snow & Ice all have major gains to be had.  Everyone complains of tarmac physics and lack of grip, so the trainers are naturally are going to gain impressive advantage there too, as CossieRally said himself!

So, I genuinely cant just put it down to ability.  Yes, some guys may be quick, no doubt, but some of those top guys really don't deserve their place on the Leaderboards

[dynt 0]

KevM said:

dynt said:

Actually thinking about it I have had a few extra thoughts,

What makes Porkhammer so quick if you study his videos is that he is incredibly smooth and tidy, which replicate's Seb Loebs style in many ways.

Next 'lines ' there is way more leeway for correct lines than appears the case, once you put in the time this because more obvious as progress on in game mode.

These two prerequisites are just as important in real life as they are in game mode.

So I think the issue is not that real life driving skills aren't the same as game skills, but its more about learning how to apply those skills to a game.

I have been thinking too...

I can equal & beat 'Top Times', but only in modern 4WD in Finland.  
As we know, Finland is pretty flat out stuff.  Most corners are 4th/5th/6th gear and taken pinned.  Lines, car balance and carrying speed is key, which I have no problem with.  Because of the fast flowing nature, additional grip as per a trainer, isn't so big of an advantage, it only has around 3 tight corners per stage to 'grip' on.  

I know how to drive lines, carry speed and manage grip, but i cant get near the times on any other stages, where Additional lateral corner grip/accel. grip/braking grip would give a larger gains.  The physics I drive just aren't capable of it.  Twisty gravel, Snow & Ice all have major gains to be had.  Everyone complains of tarmac physics and lack of grip, so the trainers are naturally are going to gain impressive advantage there too, as CossieRally said himself!

So, I genuinely cant just put it down to ability.  Yes, some guys may be quick, no doubt, but some of those top guys really don't deserve their place on the Leaderboards

For me Kev the kitcar F2 class has the best physics and most realistic feel, the rwd cars did improve with v2 but I tend to struggle with them, as I would love to boot them round in full drift mode, at the moment I am always trying to compensate with large amounts of rebound and left foot braking in order to add weight.

[KevM 44]

I actually really enjoy the F2 and RWD's, the V2 physics weight and balance lets them move around on and off power, which is a huge success from a simulation.  Unfortunately, both 2wd groups are particularly susceptible to additional grip.  F2/RWD understeer/oversteer/torque steer is close to nil depending on how many PageUp's the user presses and acceleration vastly increases as wheelspin is eradicated.

This is why the Leaderboards need to be sectioned.

I could buy a nice Mk2 Escort rally car and do a season in Historics.  If I swapped the Pinto for a 2.5 Millington Diamond, fitted ProFlex suspension and a Tractive 6 speed sequential, & 14" brakes and 16" wheels,  I wouldn't be disqualified for cheating, I'd just be moved to a different class.

Why should the game be any different?  This problem wont go away, so instead of fighting it, embrace it, separate it and keep the competition alive and relevant!

I cant think why that wouldn't suit everyone as long as timer hacks are nil?  It doesn't even require any change to the game itself, it'd be Racenet based anyway!

[Kakkela 3]

KevM said:

I actually really enjoy the F2 and RWD's, the V2 physics weight and balance lets them move around on and off power, which is a huge success from a simulation.  Unfortunately, both 2wd groups are particularly susceptible to additional grip.  F2/RWD understeer/oversteer/torque steer is close to nil depending on how many PageUp's the user presses and acceleration vastly increases as wheelspin is eradicated.

This is why the Leaderboards need to be sectioned.

I could buy a nice Mk2 Escort rally car and do a season in Historics.  If I swapped the Pinto for a 2.5 Millington Diamond, fitted ProFlex suspension and a Tractive 6 speed sequential, & 14" brakes and 16" wheels,  I wouldn't be disqualified for cheating, I'd just be moved to a different class.

Why should the game be any different?  This problem wont go away, so instead of fighting it, embrace it, separate it and keep the competition alive and relevant!

I cant think why that wouldn't suit everyone as long as timer hacks are nil?  It doesn't even require any change to the game itself, it'd be Racenet based anyway!

But how can you distinguish them from legit drivers?

[dgeesi0 305]

the only way is to get a better anti cheat and put more time into stopping the trainers.

the thing that does annoy me is they aren't professionals making these hacks ,trainers they are part time doing it for fun.they are not recreating it over and over just tweaking adapting it so it works.

so the method they are using is not that advanced and should be sorted out by people with bigger resources.

often it comes down to money and resources.whether its worth spending extra money on catching cheats. often it isnt.as it effects profit.thats why most games farm out anti cheat to third party groups.

thing is with how little hacks there are for this game basically 3-4 trainers hacks.most are based around the same coding so if the resources were put in place a professional studio should be able to stop the cheats of all kind.blatant or slight.

why people are even arguing about who is legit or not is almost pointless . top 5 people who get times could all cheat. unless you have proof doesn't matter. its just a endless argument.

[KevM 44]

Kakkela said:

But how can you distinguish them from legit drivers?

That would have no relevance, which is a good thing.

If we have 200k people playing now and 199,100 players & everyone on a console cant get faster than say 5min 50 secs on a car/stage combo, but @ 100 players can, and to quite an extent, then promote them to their own class/division.  

[Kakkela 3]

KevM said:

Kakkela said:

But how can you distinguish them from legit drivers?

That would have no relevance, which is a good thing.

If we have 200k people playing now and 199,100 players & everyone on a console cant get faster than say 5min 50 secs on a car/stage combo, but @ 100 players can, and to quite an extent, then promote them to their own class/division.  

But why would you have divisions if it weren't to separate cheaters? Wasn't that the point all along?

[KevM 44]

The times will separate them anyway.  When racing is really tight, generally a second separates the top 5.  Some guys have the ability to smash that by either ability or exploit, so let them.

Some of the top runners are often beating cheats just before they end up banned, so they shouldnt actually be too bothered as they have the talent to compete with them regardless.  Im sure they end up bored racing slower drivers so - win win!

[Kakkela 3]

So you just want divisions so you feel better when doing 101. best time and will be Rank 1. of Division 2?

[dynt 0]

I am liking the sound of that @KevM

 If I swapped the Pinto for a 2.5 Millington Diamond, fitted ProFlex suspension and a Tractive 6 speed sequential, & 14" brakes and 16" wheels.

What do those Millingtons push out my old BDX was giving round 255 on a good day.

[dgeesi0 305]

is it worth it ? best part of 35,000-£40,000 grand

ken block millington 2nd hand was £20,000 for engine. his hoonigan escort with millington in 330bhp.

i guess if its you want to be a purist or not ? or you just loaded where money is no option.

[dynt 0]

Going from a Pinto to a BGG then BDX back in the day was a leap, I remember giving 5500 for my  BDX  in the days when a 10k rally car could get you in the top 10 of the RAC.

wasn't thinking much about being a purist just drifting the f**** out of it !

[KevM 44]

Kakkela said:

So you just want divisions so you feel better when doing 101. best time and will be Rank 1. of Division 2?

I don't need to be number one of division 2, I just like the though of having something tangible to aim for ;)

[dynt 0]

I don't need to be number one of division 2, I just like the though of having something tangible to aim for

So what's your handle on the fact the time spreads have significantly dropped over the top 100, back last June, July , August the top 10 often had a 30 sec spread or more, now its more like 10 secs.