The Cheat Thread

[JZStudios 631]

RinusRally said:

xkevlarx said:

I used DFEX with 200 dor for years and when I moved to DFGT 900 dor I felt my driving got better. Naturally there is an advantage of going to fast full lock in low dor, but at the same time higher dor offers more precision and finesse.  There are people with disabilities, that need to have a lower dor to be able to play. Playing with one hand and 900 dor funfunfun. Also the FOV is something that most definitely should not be locked. People play with so many different setups (screen size, height, distance) forcing locked fov on everyone is just wrong. Who's setup is used for reference fov? I bet it would be Ivy's. That would be fair to everyone.  And people with motion sickness need to have a fov scaling to be able to play at.

I am not talking about locked fov. I am talking about assetto's fov options where you calculate your screensize, distance etc and give the right fov. Or Automoblista's multi-view fov that locks to your screenresolution, but you still can increase or decrease your "fov" I am totally against locked fov, but there must be restrictions, to prevent exploiting like bypassing the cockpit, etc

There's an FOV thread, where they say exactly what the correct FOV to in game ratio is.... so.... I'm not getting your point. Also, AC only does that for triple screens. I know, because I have triples. That being said, the FOV should also adjust the dash cam, and it's actually irritating that it doesn't. The exterior views I don't really care about.

On the topic of actual cheating, I don't know how the trainers work, it has to be a sort of separate app right? If there's only x amount, why not just check for the files of the trainer before starting online? I don't really care if people use trainers in custom.

[Kakkela 3]

JZStudios said:

RinusRally said:

xkevlarx said:

I used DFEX with 200 dor for years and when I moved to DFGT 900 dor I felt my driving got better. Naturally there is an advantage of going to fast full lock in low dor, but at the same time higher dor offers more precision and finesse.  There are people with disabilities, that need to have a lower dor to be able to play. Playing with one hand and 900 dor funfunfun. Also the FOV is something that most definitely should not be locked. People play with so many different setups (screen size, height, distance) forcing locked fov on everyone is just wrong. Who's setup is used for reference fov? I bet it would be Ivy's. That would be fair to everyone.  And people with motion sickness need to have a fov scaling to be able to play at.

I am not talking about locked fov. I am talking about assetto's fov options where you calculate your screensize, distance etc and give the right fov. Or Automoblista's multi-view fov that locks to your screenresolution, but you still can increase or decrease your "fov" I am totally against locked fov, but there must be restrictions, to prevent exploiting like bypassing the cockpit, etc

There's an FOV thread, where they say exactly what the correct FOV to in game ratio is.... so.... I'm not getting your point. Also, AC only does that for triple screens. I know, because I have triples. That being said, the FOV should also adjust the dash cam, and it's actually irritating that it doesn't. The exterior views I don't really care about.

On the topic of actual cheating, I don't know how the trainers work, it has to be a sort of separate app right? If there's only x amount, why not just check for the files of the trainer before starting online? I don't really care if people use trainers in custom.

I linked modified Dashcam earlier in this thread. When using it the FoV slider changes also Dashcam.

[KevM 44]

dynt said:

So what's your handle on the fact the time spreads have significantly dropped over the top 100, back last June, July , August the top 10 often had a 30 sec spread or more, now its more like 10 secs.

Some silly exploits have been blocked which is good.  Experience and ability in the main field is on the up, while cheat ability, which should improve in a way which is proportionate to the main field, is stunted by the fact that they get banned for excelling - lol

[JZStudios 631]

Kakkela said:

JZStudios said:

RinusRally said:

xkevlarx said:

I used DFEX with 200 dor for years and when I moved to DFGT 900 dor I felt my driving got better. Naturally there is an advantage of going to fast full lock in low dor, but at the same time higher dor offers more precision and finesse.  There are people with disabilities, that need to have a lower dor to be able to play. Playing with one hand and 900 dor funfunfun. Also the FOV is something that most definitely should not be locked. People play with so many different setups (screen size, height, distance) forcing locked fov on everyone is just wrong. Who's setup is used for reference fov? I bet it would be Ivy's. That would be fair to everyone.  And people with motion sickness need to have a fov scaling to be able to play at.

I am not talking about locked fov. I am talking about assetto's fov options where you calculate your screensize, distance etc and give the right fov. Or Automoblista's multi-view fov that locks to your screenresolution, but you still can increase or decrease your "fov" I am totally against locked fov, but there must be restrictions, to prevent exploiting like bypassing the cockpit, etc

There's an FOV thread, where they say exactly what the correct FOV to in game ratio is.... so.... I'm not getting your point. Also, AC only does that for triple screens. I know, because I have triples. That being said, the FOV should also adjust the dash cam, and it's actually irritating that it doesn't. The exterior views I don't really care about.

On the topic of actual cheating, I don't know how the trainers work, it has to be a sort of separate app right? If there's only x amount, why not just check for the files of the trainer before starting online? I don't really care if people use trainers in custom.

I linked modified Dashcam earlier in this thread. When using it the FoV slider changes also Dashcam.

Link didn't work.

[Kakkela 3]

KevM said:

dynt said:

So what's your handle on the fact the time spreads have significantly dropped over the top 100, back last June, July , August the top 10 often had a 30 sec spread or more, now its more like 10 secs.

Some silly exploits have been blocked which is good.  Experience and ability in the main field is on the up, while cheat ability, which should improve in a way which is proportionate to the main field, is stunted by the fact that they get banned for excelling - lol

WR times have been made by same people whole time, cheats haven't had effects on that gap. More people coming in and experience are main reasons why time gaps have tightened.

[xkevlarx 0]

RinusRally said:

I am not talking about locked fov. I am talking about assetto's fov options where you calculate your screensize, distance etc and give the right fov. Or Automoblista's multi-view fov that locks to your screenresolution, but you still can increase or decrease your "fov" I am totally against locked fov, but there must be restrictions, to prevent exploiting like bypassing the cockpit, etc

Same difference, if the fov is calculated according to some "rules" and enforced then it's as good as locked. "Right" fov, there's no such thing. Right is what feels right to you. Not what some fov calculator tells you. Bypassing cockpit is actually a seat adjustment thing and nothing to do with fov. After community begged for proper fov and eyepoint adjustments and actually got them, you want to nerf them. Not gonna happen. Maybe next we can ban triple screen setups because they give an unfair advantage when you get you car sideways.

The thing is, this is actually a video game and people need enjoy it. And these option are there for them to tweak the game to their liking and maximize the fun factor. Also my previous points of different physical factors still apply. If someone wants to feel the sense of speed by increasing fov let them do it, if someone wants to feel like they have binoculars attached to their eyes let them do it. I'm very hard pressed to understand how this somehow could lessen your enjoyment of the game.  I don't play online myself and it just seems to be overly serious thing to be honest.

[KevM 44]

Kakkela said:

KevM said:

dynt said:

So what's your handle on the fact the time spreads have significantly dropped over the top 100, back last June, July , August the top 10 often had a 30 sec spread or more, now its more like 10 secs.

Some silly exploits have been blocked which is good.  Experience and ability in the main field is on the up, while cheat ability, which should improve in a way which is proportionate to the main field, is stunted by the fact that they get banned for excelling - lol

WR times have been made by same people whole time, cheats haven't had effects on that gap. More people coming in and experience are main reasons why time gaps have tightened.

Which is what I just said! 

But yeah, the silly clock-stop cheat times have been removed, around 1700 times is close to the current count now, hence the tightening between main field and top times

[MrDeap 12]

Porkhammer said:

I mean no disrespect; of course you can be good at both! But like Kakkela pointed out, it's not an "automatic" thing; there are people that are terrible at driving games, even though they're awesome at driving in real life - and this, of course, also applies the other way around.

I suck in real life. Also I'm Asian.
Both car I use are econobox CVT transmission.

[dgeesi0 305]

RinusRally said:

I've found a solution for the wheel ratio's

Lets say we have a Integrale which has 720 wheel degrees locked in game (softlock) Lets say Codemasters release a 1.2 patch with adjustable wheel ratio's, but with restrictions according real life. This means the integrale can go as low as 612 degrees to max 900. So everyone can set their own preferred ratio. Also this means the game must override the drivers, so you can't mess with the drivers. Softlock will be gone, and this new feature will be. 

...stupid. its a game not real life rally. stop confusing the two. its meant to be fun. you cant force people into your way of playing.

if they did what you propose most people wouldn't even play the game.actually scares me sometimes in great games when people make very daft ideas as such legendary games can be ruined over night. seen it in many titles.

just remember rally is niche. by closing down all the doors you make it even more niche. then its not saleable. then you have no next rally game.

[shadow118 18]

dgeesi0 said:

RinusRally said:

I've found a solution for the wheel ratio's

Lets say we have a Integrale which has 720 wheel degrees locked in game (softlock) Lets say Codemasters release a 1.2 patch with adjustable wheel ratio's, but with restrictions according real life. This means the integrale can go as low as 612 degrees to max 900. So everyone can set their own preferred ratio. Also this means the game must override the drivers, so you can't mess with the drivers. Softlock will be gone, and this new feature will be. 

...stupid. its a game not real life rally. stop confusing the two. its meant to be fun. you cant force people into your way of playing.

if they did what you propose most people wouldn't even play the game.actually scares me sometimes in great games when people make very daft ideas as such legendary games can be ruined over night. seen it in many titles.

just remember rally is niche. by closing down all the doors you make it even more niche. then its not saleable. then you have no next rally game.

I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who have wheels will have cheap 200°-270° wheels and 900°+ wheels are in the minority. You can't go as "low" as 612°, when most can only go as "high" as 270°. And saying that lower DoR users have and anvantage over higher DoR users is also kind of wrong.  Every wheel user has the option to set a lower DoR, but not everyone can use the higher DoR. Those using higher DoR chose to do so, a lot of low DoR user don't have that option. Your arguments would work if everyone had a 900° wheel

That's aimed more for @RinusRally 

[F2CMaDMaXX 505]

Whilst everyone here is whining about how to unsuccessfully weed out people getting very fast times (not realising that an actual cheater can just put their time very close to a non cheaters)  I think the mentioning of people using low DOR wheels has some merit, though not because it's more like a game-pad etc.

I think there is something there because of the physics, it makes the car turn/rotate (as was mentioned) rather than have the wheels turn and th car follows, i think the physics may be missing the initial slip if the steering wheels on the car change direction too fast.

Anyway, remember steering saturation, that's what can be used to stop it feeling very twitchy when driving in a straight line (or more twitchy if you adjust the other way)  It's how Porky drives with his 270 DOR.

[Porkhammer 78]

F2CMaDMaXX said:

It's how Porky drives with his 270 DOR.

wat

You mean saturation to the steering, what does that do? Do you mean linearity?

[JZStudios 631]

xkevlarx said:

RinusRally said:

I am not talking about locked fov. I am talking about assetto's fov options where you calculate your screensize, distance etc and give the right fov. Or Automoblista's multi-view fov that locks to your screenresolution, but you still can increase or decrease your "fov" I am totally against locked fov, but there must be restrictions, to prevent exploiting like bypassing the cockpit, etc

Same difference, if the fov is calculated according to some "rules" and enforced then it's as good as locked. "Right" fov, there's no such thing. Right is what feels right to you. Not what some fov calculator tells you. Bypassing cockpit is actually a seat adjustment thing and nothing to do with fov. After community begged for proper fov and eyepoint adjustments and actually got them, you want to nerf them. Not gonna happen. Maybe next we can ban triple screen setups because they give an unfair advantage when you get you car sideways.

The thing is, this is actually a video game and people need enjoy it. And these option are there for them to tweak the game to their liking and maximize the fun factor. Also my previous points of different physical factors still apply. If someone wants to feel the sense of speed by increasing fov let them do it, if someone wants to feel like they have binoculars attached to their eyes let them do it. I'm very hard pressed to understand how this somehow could lessen your enjoyment of the game.  I don't play online myself and it just seems to be overly serious thing to be honest.

I can attest to triples helping with hairpins. Also probably drifting, if I didn't suck at it. I guess I am a cheater, because my FOV is way more than any single screen user, unless your next to a projector. Also why I wanted to work at a movie theater to sneak games in late at night.....

[gheeD 15]

Yeap.. Steering saturation is limiting the DOR, what you are talking about is the linearity (like porkie said) madmaxx

[dgeesi0 305]

this convo is getting more absurd by the minute. next we will have to drive in top hats. :D

[JZStudios 631]

dgeesi0 said:

this convo is getting more absurd by the minute. next we will have to drive in top hats. :D

I feel like this a reference to something I'm missing.

[MrDeap 12]

Didzis said:
I'm pretty sure that the majority of people who have wheels will have cheap 200°-270° wheels and 900°+ wheels are in the minority. You can't go as "low" as 612°, when most can only go as "high" as 270°. And saying that lower DoR users have and anvantage over higher DoR users is also kind of wrong.  Every wheel user has the option to set a lower DoR, but not everyone can use the higher DoR. Those using higher DoR chose to do so, a lot of low DoR user don't have that option. Your arguments would work if everyone had a 900° wheel

That's aimed more for @RinusRally 

I never shared that, but way back I was in top 64 in Project Gotham Racing 3 over 3 millions users in the trip in Italy tournament(google it if you don't believe me). Obviously the difference of time was within 0.5sec.

So when it come for racing line I doubt I am in the wrong on this one, but lower DoR is a definite advantage. Like I said before, you will tend to take the corner too wide(while hitting the apex) with higher DoR.  If the game would feature ghost you would spot it right away.

Obviously you can with higher DoR, but especially with a driving force GT, argh this should be so noisy that you would get cops visiting your house. With a G25 & G27 steering ratio should be lower than 360 to be competitive. If you can get 3 sec within the know tops at 900 or 540 on a long stage with a cheap Logitech wheel, the person have serious steering skill beyond imagination.

Obviously think why real car have high steering ratio. Because at lower ratio it would be too twitchy. If you can play DiRT Rally at lower steering ratio is due because the car aren't twitchy enough in my opinion.

[F2CMaDMaXX 505]

Gah, sorry yes, linearity.                           

[Porkhammer 78]

RinusRally said:

They once said: "We want to create the most realistic rally sim ever" so they should consider these options.

Nope.

They said "we want to create the most authentic rally game ever" - there's a difference.

[Kakkela 3]

RinusRally said:

dgeesi0 said:

RinusRally said:

I've found a solution for the wheel ratio's

Lets say we have a Integrale which has 720 wheel degrees locked in game (softlock) Lets say Codemasters release a 1.2 patch with adjustable wheel ratio's, but with restrictions according real life. This means the integrale can go as low as 612 degrees to max 900. So everyone can set their own preferred ratio. Also this means the game must override the drivers, so you can't mess with the drivers. Softlock will be gone, and this new feature will be. 

...stupid. its a game not real life rally. stop confusing the two. its meant to be fun. you cant force people into your way of playing.

if they did what you propose most people wouldn't even play the game.actually scares me sometimes in great games when people make very daft ideas as such legendary games can be ruined over night. seen it in many titles.

just remember rally is niche. by closing down all the doors you make it even more niche. then its not saleable. then you have no next rally game.

I am just talking about making the sim more sim instead of saying people should play my way. Making the game more sim is what we want, right? and the people who still play with 270 wheels they need to upgrade because a used G27 is very cheap, and a T150 or a T300/TX is very affordable nowdays. by getting rid of the arcadish preferences/options and by introducing cockpit/dash lock, transmission lock, minimum wheel degrees and max wheel degrees per car is good for the sim. I am sure Codemasters agree too. They once said: "We want to create the most realistic rally sim ever" so they should consider these options. I am sure they did read my posts, and I am sure they are thinking bout it too. Now or months ago. By getting rid of the arcade features and introducing the sim features or gamemechanics people will understand what rallying is, what real drivers experience etc. That's what Codemasters wanted in first place. 

Your priority in making this more realistic sim should be driving physics not restrictions in input methods. DiRTs physics simulation doesn't warrant full on simulation badge so it really doesn't matter how people drive it.
Secondly, it won't give you any real advantage, I can guarantee that.

[MrDeap 12]

Kakkela said:

Your priority in making this more realistic sim should be driving physics not restrictions in input methods. DiRTs physics simulation doesn't warrant full on simulation badge so it really doesn't matter how people drive it.
Secondly, it won't give you any real advantage, I can guarantee that.

It will give you an advantage.


Lower rotation is better & easier to make the car rotate at turn in.

You are afraid, because many can get a much better time just by doing it.

[Kakkela 3]

MrDeap said:

Kakkela said:

Your priority in making this more realistic sim should be driving physics not restrictions in input methods. DiRTs physics simulation doesn't warrant full on simulation badge so it really doesn't matter how people drive it.
Secondly, it won't give you any real advantage, I can guarantee that.

It will give you an advantage.


Lower rotation is better & easier to make the car rotate at turn in.

You are afraid, because many can get a much better time just by doing it.

You totally ignore the fact that turning too much is slowing your car even with DiRT's physics and that you sometimes really want to make small corrections that will be really hard if you drive with 270 degrees.
If you look at any of @gheeD 's videos you will notice that he is almost never using full lock even with 540 degrees. At that point you need precision more than speed.

[BadD0g 0]

This thread is crazy. Of all the things that Codies could change to make the game more of a 'simulator,' the things you guys have spent the past 5 pages arguing about are probably the least important.

[shadow118 18]

RinusRally said:

and the people who still play with 270 wheels they need to upgrade because a used G27 is very cheap, and a T150 or a T300/TX is very affordable nowdays.

Where I live, the G27 still goes for 150-200€, or more (that's for a used one). I don't know what's your income, but for me that is not cheap. A Logitech Formula Force RX for 25€ is cheap. 

[Fedemaisonnave 48]

Didzis said:

RinusRally said:

and the people who still play with 270 wheels they need to upgrade because a used G27 is very cheap, and a T150 or a T300/TX is very affordable nowdays.

Where I live, the G27 still goes for 150-200€, or more (that's for a used one). I don't know what's your income, but for me that is not cheap. A Logitech Formula Force RX for 25€ is cheap. 
-----------------------
Where I live it costs $566 USD, thats why i use DFGT and Thrustmasters dont even exist!!