How are the car physics in Dirt rally?

[RyuMakkuro 6]

gheeD said:

It was not bad at all, with bit more refined steering settings and so on definitely right up there with dirt rally's monte carlo and maybe even bit better.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good joke, had a really good laugh.

[KevM 44]

dgeesi0 said:

gheed can i ask you how close kakkela is to you ? is he your brother,lover or mother ? :D

i swear if anyone mentions your name hes in quicker than the flash. :p actually getting quite creepy now.

Could he actually be the elusive 'Porkhammer'? 

Porky is never happy to be 2nd, unless it's to gheeD...  Hmmmm...

Aw, that's really cute!!

[Kakkela 3]

RyuMakkuro said:

gheeD said:

It was not bad at all, with bit more refined steering settings and so on definitely right up there with dirt rally's monte carlo and maybe even bit better.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good joke, had a really good laugh.

https://youtu.be/iul1Z2jLaok

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Kakkela said:

RyuMakkuro said:

gheeD said:

It was not bad at all, with bit more refined steering settings and so on definitely right up there with dirt rally's monte carlo and maybe even bit better.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good joke, had a really good laugh.

*video*

Not sure what your intent was with that, but a gameplay video (especially from a hood camera) is not representative of the physics in basically no way. You can effectively make the car behave in a way that will make it look realistic or unrealistic. So unless someone actually plays it, it's impossible to make a point on the physics part through a gameplay video. Which is probably the main reason this thread even exists. If it wouldn't be the case, the OP would just watch some DR footage and be done with it.

PS. Would be nice if you could create an opinion of your own. You've used so much vaseline on gheed's rear-end that it leaves a trail behind him along with making anything you say... pointless. Nothing you say at this point is taken seriously in any way. Just an advice, nothing more as it's not even hilarious at this point.

[Kakkela 3]

RyuMakkuro said:

Kakkela said:

RyuMakkuro said:

gheeD said:

It was not bad at all, with bit more refined steering settings and so on definitely right up there with dirt rally's monte carlo and maybe even bit better.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Good joke, had a really good laugh.

*video*

Not sure what your intent was with that, but a gameplay video (especially from a hood camera) is not representative of the physics in basically no way. You can effectively make the car behave in a way that will make it look realistic or unrealistic. So unless someone actually plays it, it's impossible to make a point on the physics part through a gameplay video. Which is probably the main reason this thread even exists. If it wouldn't be the case, the OP would just watch some DR footage and be done with it.

PS. Would be nice if you could create an opinion of your own. You've used so much vaseline on gheed's rear-end that it leaves a trail behind him along with making anything you say... pointless. Nothing you say at this point is taken seriously in any way. Just an advice, nothing more as it's not even hilarious at this point.

You got it all wrong man, it is my own opinion! It just usually happens to be same as Pork's and gheeD's... 
And I linked that gheeD's video just because you thought his opinion is joke but he definitely has investigated the game as that video proves.

Only reason I ever mention gheeD or Pork is because they drive this game more and are faster than me, I personally think it gives more validation to my opinions as you could just point at my steam hours or daily times and tell that I got no experience to say anything.

[KevM 44]

KevM said:
Could he actually be the elusive 'Porkhammer'? 

Porky is never happy to be 2nd, unless it's to gheeD...  Hmmmm...

Aw, that's really cute!!

It's the same opinion, cos you are Porkhammer & gheeD is your bigger bro that you have a lot of brotherly respect for? Did gheeD give you an HDMI cable for your new monitor yet??

Did I guess??  :D

(I jest....)









(.....or do I??)

[Porkhammer 78]

KevM said:

KevM said:
Could he actually be the elusive 'Porkhammer'? 

Porky is never happy to be 2nd, unless it's to gheeD...  Hmmmm...

Aw, that's really cute!!

It's the same opinion, cos you are Porkhammer & gheeD is your bigger bro that you have a lot of brotherly respect for? Did gheeD give you an HDMI cable for your new monitor yet??

Did I guess??  :D

(I jest....)









(.....or do I??)

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Kakkela said:
And I linked that gheeD's video just because you thought his opinion is joke but he definitely has investigated the game as that video proves.

Yes, well, I find that opinion to be a joke since most of my time in DR was spent specifically on Monte Carlo (and Pikes Peak).

There is almost completely no connection to the road in SLRE. Naturally DR has a bit of hovercraft feel as well (depends on the car, some more while some less) to its tarmac handling but you can tell what's going on with the car along with the car responding to your inputs properly. No such thing in SLRE. DR suffers from what seems like inverted downforce, SLRE however from... lack of everything?

Also, your hours, game time and times don't matter if what you're saying makes sense. In other words, as long as you're not going "this is bad because I say so" but more along the lines of  "I feel the cars lose grip in the rear-end on the tarmac on high speeds too quickly when compared with real life footage" then you have all the validation you need. It's called common sense/logic/rational thinking.

[Kakkela 3]

RyuMakkuro said:

Kakkela said:
And I linked that gheeD's video just because you thought his opinion is joke but he definitely has investigated the game as that video proves.

Yes, well, I find that opinion to be a joke since most of my time in DR was spent specifically on Monte Carlo (and Pikes Peak).

There is almost completely no connection to the road in SLRE. Naturally DR has a bit of hovercraft feel as well (depends on the car, some more while some less) to its tarmac handling but you can tell what's going on with the car along with the car responding to your inputs properly. No such thing in SLRE. DR suffers from what seems like inverted downforce, SLRE however from... lack of everything?

But you drive with pad, it could very well be the difference here. 

[KevM 44]

How does this happen?



                                                                                      

[Kakkela 3]

KevM said:

How does this happen?
                                                                                     

Are you meaning the degrees part? It's the Steering Saturation setting in-game.
If you play multiple simulators you usually just want to keep drivers at 900 and adjust it in-game or with profiles.

[KevM 44]

No, it's gheeDs settings, but you are the author? Wa??

[Kakkela 3]

KevM said:

No, it's gheeDs settings, but you are the author? Wa??

Yeah, I'm also the one he got his T500 base settings...

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Kakkela said:
But you drive with pad, it could very well be the difference here. 

Sure, but games with proper physics play well on a gamepad. I haven't seen a game where physics were only good/doable if you were playing with a steering wheel.
Playing with a gamepad may prove to be rather "unenjoyable" in some parts of the game (open wheel or personally LMP1 in pCARS for example) but that doesn't take away from the feeling of physics. I may not be able to control the cars well enough with a gamepad but I can still appreciate the physics. In SLRE it wasn't that I couldn't control the cars due to lack of precision. It was more due to not knowing what the heck is going on due to physics being as I described them previously.

[Kakkela 3]

RyuMakkuro said:

Kakkela said:
But you drive with pad, it could very well be the difference here. 

Sure, but games with proper physics play well on a gamepad. I haven't seen a game where physics were only good/doable if you were playing with a steering wheel.
Playing with a gamepad may prove to be rather "unenjoyable" in some parts of the game (open wheel or personally LMP1 in pCARS for example) but that doesn't take away from the feeling of physics. I may not be able to control the cars well enough with a gamepad but I can still appreciate the physics. In SLRE it wasn't that I couldn't control the cars due to lack of precision. It was more due to not knowing what the heck is going on due to physics being as I described them previously.

But wheel is main feedback method for driving simulators, it is totally plausible to make good FFB for wheel but fuck up it for pad. 

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Kakkela said:
But wheel is main feedback method for driving simulators, it is totally plausible to make good FFB for wheel but fuck up it for pad. 

Which is why I don't take FFB into account at all. Most of the time I disable FFB, since for a gamepad it's purely down to vibrations which often are more annoying than helpful. Moreover, FFB is a personal thing, depends on each person AND is merely a translation of the physics into an action of sorts (vibration, steering wheel movement etc.). Therefore a bad FFB can make good physics feel bad but good FFB will not fix broken physics. And in most racing games you can set up the sensitivity and deadzone of the analog sticks so... you quite literally CAN'T mess up FFB for a pad, since there's none to begin with.

Besides, the only feedback that is 100% representative of the physics and not filtered by anything, aka raw, is what I call VFB - Visual Feedback. You see how the car behaves over the terrain, how it reacts to inputs etc. and all of that is translated by your brain into feeling of physics. That's how keyboard players can also feel the physics.
Anything else is no longer raw. The fact you can adjust the FFB to your liking points even more that it's just a way to fool your brain, not something that is representative of physics. It's like I mentioned before only a translation of the car behaviour into actions which are then translated by your brain. I don't think I have to point out that automatic translators without human input are not exactly great (hint: Google Translate).

So if you want to have 100% impartial opinion about the games physics... turn off the FFB completely. Only then will you be having raw physics. More difficult, less enjoyable? Possibly yes for steering wheel users with those absurdly high DOR. But it's the only way to negate all the variables that can change the perception of physics while not being part of those physics.

In short, steering wheel users with FFB engaged have actually the most biased opinion when it comes to physics.

[Kakkela 3]

RyuMakkuro said:

Kakkela said:
But wheel is main feedback method for driving simulators, it is totally plausible to make good FFB for wheel but fuck up it for pad. 

Which is why I don't take FFB into account at all. Most of the time I disable FFB, since for a gamepad it's purely down to vibrations which often are more annoying than helpful. Moreover, FFB is a personal thing, depends on each person AND is merely a translation of the physics into an action of sorts (vibration, steering wheel movement etc.). Therefore a bad FFB can make good physics feel bad but good FFB will not fix broken physics. And in most racing games you can set up the sensitivity and deadzone of the analog sticks so... you quite literally CAN'T mess up FFB for a pad, since there's none to begin with.

Besides, the only feedback that is 100% representative of the physics and not filtered by anything, aka raw, is what I call VFB - Visual Feedback. You see how the car behaves over the terrain, how it reacts to inputs etc. and all of that is translated by your brain into feeling of physics. That's how keyboard players can also feel the physics.
Anything else is no longer raw. The fact you can adjust the FFB to your liking points even more that it's just a way to fool your brain, not something that is representative of physics. It's like I mentioned before only a translation of the car behaviour into actions which are then translated by your brain. I don't think I have to point out that automatic translators without human input are not exactly great (hint: Google Translate).

So if you want to have 100% impartial opinion about the games physics... turn off the FFB completely. Only then will you be having raw physics. More difficult, less enjoyable? Possibly yes for steering wheel users with those absurdly high DOR. But it's the only way to negate all the variables that can change the perception of physics while not being part of those physics.

In short, steering wheel users with FFB engaged have actually the most biased opinion when it comes to physics.

FFB is physics based when its made correctly, and in DiRT you can dial it out to be pretty correct information just like in real car.

[Kakkela 3]

Kakkela said:

RyuMakkuro said:

Kakkela said:
But wheel is main feedback method for driving simulators, it is totally plausible to make good FFB for wheel but fuck up it for pad. 

Which is why I don't take FFB into account at all. Most of the time I disable FFB, since for a gamepad it's purely down to vibrations which often are more annoying than helpful. Moreover, FFB is a personal thing, depends on each person AND is merely a translation of the physics into an action of sorts (vibration, steering wheel movement etc.). Therefore a bad FFB can make good physics feel bad but good FFB will not fix broken physics. And in most racing games you can set up the sensitivity and deadzone of the analog sticks so... you quite literally CAN'T mess up FFB for a pad, since there's none to begin with.

Besides, the only feedback that is 100% representative of the physics and not filtered by anything, aka raw, is what I call VFB - Visual Feedback. You see how the car behaves over the terrain, how it reacts to inputs etc. and all of that is translated by your brain into feeling of physics. That's how keyboard players can also feel the physics.
Anything else is no longer raw. The fact you can adjust the FFB to your liking points even more that it's just a way to fool your brain, not something that is representative of physics. It's like I mentioned before only a translation of the car behaviour into actions which are then translated by your brain. I don't think I have to point out that automatic translators without human input are not exactly great (hint: Google Translate).

So if you want to have 100% impartial opinion about the games physics... turn off the FFB completely. Only then will you be having raw physics. More difficult, less enjoyable? Possibly yes for steering wheel users with those absurdly high DOR. But it's the only way to negate all the variables that can change the perception of physics while not being part of those physics.

In short, steering wheel users with FFB engaged have actually the most biased opinion when it comes to physics.

FFB is physics based when its made correctly, and in DiRT you can dial it out to be pretty correct information just like in real car.

Now that my RL session has ended I can write some more to this.
FFB in it's purest form is just physics telling how steering wheel react to front wheels and their traction/lack of it. All good simulators have this correct. There is nothing filtering anything.
In DiRT you can luckily dial out canned effects quite nicely and get pretty okay FFB. (My old Logitech settings are in Workshop on gheeDs name)

But you clearly don't know as you only use Pad   :*

[JZStudios 631]

Ehh. FFB is okay. Not a whole lot of options to tweak, but it works.

[Kakkela 3]

JZStudios said:

Ehh. FFB is okay. Not a whole lot of options to tweak, but it works.

A lot more than in many other games on DiRTs level.
There is one crucial missing though, Min-force is quite important for good FFB effects.

[JZStudios 631]

Kakkela said:

JZStudios said:

Ehh. FFB is okay. Not a whole lot of options to tweak, but it works.

A lot more than in many other games on DiRTs level.
There is one crucial missing though, Min-force is quite important for good FFB effects.

I've also not

1. Been able to set up FFB in any game to feel like a real car
2. Driven much of anything other than FWD Elantra's, Camry's, and my dad's 73 pickup.

So, I don't really know what rally, RX, GT3 cars feel like, so it's a bit of a pain in the ass.

[griev0r 15]

Ryu, question.

How can you be so opinionated on racing sims on every subject, yet you drive with a pad?  No, you don't get the feel for physics like you do with a wheel/pedal setup with proper FFB.  It's called a 'simulator' for a reason, no one drives cars with a xb360 controller.  They are great for couch relaxing gaming but there is no comparison to a wheel/pedal setup.  And another question, if you love sim racing and DR so much why haven't you invested in getting that type of setup?  The moment I tried Live for Speed in the early 2000's I immediately went out and bought a wheel.  I just don't understand the controller warriors if you truly have a passion for sim racing and have a little extra money to make it so much better, do it.

[JZStudios 631]

griev0r said:

Ryu, question.

How can you be so opinionated on racing sims on every subject, yet you drive with a pad?  No, you don't get the feel for physics like you do with a wheel/pedal setup with proper FFB.  It's called a 'simulator' for a reason, no one drives cars with a xb360 controller.  They are great for couch relaxing gaming but there is no comparison to a wheel/pedal setup.  And another question, if you love sim racing and DR so much why haven't you invested in getting that type of setup?  The moment I tried Live for Speed in the early 2000's I immediately went out and bought a wheel.  I just don't understand the controller warriors if you truly have a passion for sim racing and have a little extra money to make it so much better, do it.

Because wheels are expensive.
Also, If I could.
https://youtu.be/l35sUu0u8bk

[PaloSamo 0]

And yet some wheel users set their DOR very low or/and disable FFB, so what's the point? 

[KevM 44]

FFB is invaluable in this game.  The visuals & handling would mean very little without 'the feel' you get with your two hands