Cross platform

[Objecteur 0]

Hello,

Just a simple question : 

The leagues will be cross platform?

[Porkhammer 78]

I'm pretty sure this will not be the case.

[KevM 44]

Racenet may allow cross-reference but cross platform seems unlikely 

[enamel 0]

Paul stated leagues would not be cross platform, which is a huge bummer IMO. But I can understand the desire to keep the platforms separate.

[DocStrangelove 165]

In a forum we were trying to set up cross-platform leagues, it's a real bummer. That's no. #1 on my wishlist now. I mean, in principle you're just uploading and downloading stage times to/from dirtgame.com, so I don't see why that should be a problem from a technical perspective. Is MS' and/or Sony's strict anti-cross-platform policy to blame?

[RallyDriven 398]

Pretty much yeah, from what I gather it's a problem at Microsoft/sony's end, basically CM need permission to share the data from the 2 platforms together.

I could be wrong but I think that is the case

[BadD0g 0]

Having all platforms separate means that cheaters on one platform don't spoil the leaderboads for all platforms, so there's a silver lining at least.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Given all the cheating issues on PC side... I think it's for the better that they are isn't a cross platform here.

If Codies will really get on with the preventing cheating then a cross platform play should definitely be a thing. Otherwise you're ruining the console side of experience. I think it's enough that the PC side has to deal with this issue.

[membran 0]

Hi all,

could we please concentrate on the original poster's topic, which was cross-platform support specifically for custom leagues?  
It's not about cross-platform multiplayer in Rallycross and it's not about combining the official leaderboards of all platforms either, so potential cheating should be ignored in this discussion. It's only about private leagues and the times written to and read from them. Those times are temporary and will get deleted once the event / season finishes anyway. Meaning: your run could be recorded in your platform's own leaderboard, but the time will be tracked in that league, regardless of platform. Make it RaceNet-Friends-Only-Leagues if you don't want large public open leagues to be affected. With Codemaster's RaceNet account system already in place and supporting multiple accounts (Steam, Xbox Live, PSN) linked to that RaceNet account, and league times (probably - it appears this way, though obviously I can't be sure) appear to be  posted to dirtgame.com instead of the platform's own leaderboard servers, I really don't see why it shouldn't be possible.

An argument could be made that even cross-platform league play (again: mostly private groups, asynchronous time trial mode, temporary leaderboards ) requires all versions of the game to be patched to the same version number at the same time (same physics, car stats, available cars and so on),  which can be challenging to coordinate given Microsoft's and Sony's patch verification processes. Then again, I'd argue that leagues to me at least are focused on small groups of friends that happen to be on different platforms now. Assuming that we are "only" talking about posting and reading times and league info directly from dirtgame.com, I'd say that those groups would be able to work around some of those issues, such as agreeing to use only cars available for all, or hold off on starting the next season until version parity is established again.

And for those saying Microsoft won't allow crossplay - they did in fact open up Xbox Live completely to *any* other network service last month, at the discretion of the developer: https://news.xbox.com/2016/03/14/letter-chris-charla-idxbox-updates-gdc/
The first Xbox One game that will feature full cross-platform multiplayer will be Rocket League later this spring, which will be joining Steam's user base. Sony is being indirectly invited as well to allow Rocket League being cross-platform PS4-Xbox One. Sony already supports Rocket League being cross-platform with Steam, and with other games as well, such as Final Fantasy XIV and Street Fighter 5. 

I really do hope that Codemasters gives at least cross-platform leagues another thought, but that would also require a lot of more players voicing a request for it. Going by the first couple of answers in this thread, I'm not too hopeful. I have 30 online friends playing Dirt Rally spread across three platforms and would love to have at least a private league to race against them all. 

Oh, and a 1.3 Oculus Runtime patch would be nice. ;)

[DocStrangelove 165]

RyuMakkuro said:

Given all the cheating issues on PC side... I think it's for the better that they are isn't a cross platform here.

If Codies will really get on with the preventing cheating then a cross platform play should definitely be a thing. Otherwise you're ruining the console side of experience. I think it's enough that the PC side has to deal with this
issue.

I don't think cheating is much of a problem in custom leagues. At least it hasn't been in any league I've ever been driving in. I just want to play with friends, and it's a fucking shame we're separated over three platforms.

[PaloSamo 0]

We had a cheater amongst our league participants and we kicked him out after I discovered something fishy in his times (I only wanted to know why his PB's he was doing in the league weren't uploading to RaceNet) . Funnily enough, he was given a second chance by the league admin after submitting him a video which supposedly was his alibi. Eventually he was reported to CM. They said he is a well known cheater and bang! Out he went. 

Anyways, I guess there aren't much options available to console users to change the graphics? That would give an even more fair playing field, right? 

[membran 0]

So, can we get a discussion started on this again? Please note that this concerns private cross play leagues, whose recorded times are temporary anyway.  There is no point in discussing possible cheaters from other platforms, this is a non-issue in private leagues anyway. And remember Microsoft has opened up Xbox Live to other networks last month, see the link I've posted in my earlier reply to this thread. 

To me, not implementing private leagues to be cross-platform seems like a huge oversight. In my resident gaming forum, we have 15 people playing Dirt Rally on Steam, 15 on PSN and a couple on Xbox One. 

[BrySkye 14]

Yes, Microsoft have opened up their system, but that doesn't mean a single thing unless Sony responds in kind.
Which probably isn't going to happen. The whole thing has been a rather masterful bit of PR by MS. When they made the announcement, you can bet they would have been very confident that Sony would not take them up on it, allowing them to claim a moral high ground.
Ultimately, Microsoft have everything to gain from such a scenario whilst Sony, already with a 2:1 system sales lead, gains nothing.
They don't need to adopt cross-play to increase the user base.

On a technical level, it was possible even before MS did this for Racenet to act as the intermediate between all three formats,
But it was established that this was not possible on a legal level.
Codemasters need approval from both Microsoft and Sony to implement such a feature, even with their own external service.
Whilst Microsoft may now be willing (they weren't a few months ago, because this is something Codies already investigated), it's a dead-end without Sony.

[membran 0]

Ultimately, Microsoft have everything to gain from such a scenario whilst Sony, already with a 2:1 system sales lead, gains nothing.
They don't need to adopt cross-play to increase the user base.

A valid point, unfortunately. Though we both agree that things like this are in the general player's interest, I assume? Keep in mind that we are also solely talking about private leagues, not the whole thing with real-time-multiplayer rallycross and shared global leaderboards. Gotta start small. 

On a technical level, it was possible even before MS did this for Racenet to act as the intermediate between all three formats,
But it was established that this was not possible on a legal level.
Codemasters need approval from both Microsoft and Sony to implement such a feature, even with their own external service.
Whilst Microsoft may now be willing (they weren't a few months ago, because this is something Codies already investigated), it's a dead-end without Sony.

Now this is interesting. I thought that using an external account system like RaceNet on top of the console's network would be a special case, but I should have figured that this too is affected and restricted by console policies. And I mean a special case for RaceNet's private league feature, because it's not really multiplayer in the usual sense (like Rallycross, for example), it's more like a play-by-mail thing. Which for all platforms is managed in a web browser with the same RaceNet account (the system is already in place, I'd even guess they had to restrict the system to be explicitly not cross-platform),  the times are posted to temporary leaderboards which get wiped after each season (posting to the global leaderboard can still be restricted to the platform's own), there's no voice or text chat (another source for cross play problems, "protecting our customers") and there's no visible gamertags / names from other networks (which possibly could be offensive to players without the platform holder having any course of recourse against that, because it's not within their network) - it's the RaceNet account name that is the same and is approved for all three platforms. And I wouldn't be surprised if the download of current league information and even the posting of times turns out to be nothing more than a simple httpd call to a RaceNet webserver such as dirtgame.com.  So this is what I meant by "special case".

Microsoft has reached out to Sony again yesterday, by the way. 
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/were-ready-microsoft-says-about-xbox-one-ps4-cross/1100-6438654/

Sony has yet to respond whether Rocket League will get to be PS4-XB1 cross-platform. These things take time, unfortunately. If I remember correctly, it always has been Microsoft which threw a wrench into cross-platform ideas. We'll see.
It is already confirmed that Rocket League will be cross platform Steam-PS4 and Steam-XB1, though. Meaning, as a player on PC, you can end up in matchmade games populated with PS4 players or XB1 players, but not both at the same time. In late april, the Xbox One version will get patched up to be on the same version number like the other ones. Expect Steam-XB1 crossplay shortly after that. 

But it was established that this was not possible on a legal level. Whilst Microsoft may now be willing (they weren't a few months ago, because this is something Codies already investigated)

Out of interest, can you provide the source for this? Not doubting you, but I'd really like to read this.

[BrySkye 14]

membran said:

But it was established that this was not possible on a legal level. Whilst Microsoft may now be willing (they weren't a few months ago, because this is something Codies already investigated)

Out of interest, can you provide the source for this? Not doubting you, but I'd really like to read this.

It's in the DiRT Shows which can be found on Youtube, rather than a written article.
Livestreams that the devs held to mark each major update throughout Early Access.
Think it might have been the most recent one, but if not, than probably the one before which I guess would have been the Christmas special.
Obviously one which was streamed after the console port was confirmed, as it was a pretty common user question.
That's a lot of stuff to watch through, but if you're never seen them anyway, it's about as much insight into the games development as you could possible get.

Basically, you need the go-ahead from Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo etc to take any data out of their systems.
There was also mentions of factors such as how do you communicate that people are using different systems. 
When push comes to shove, will MS or Sony actually allow the other systems logo, for example, to be displayed within the game denoting who is playing what version.
Even the current, system specific implementation of Racenet is only possible with their blessing.
That's a noteworthy point because in the earlier Xbox 360 days, Microsoft kept XBL and the console exceptionally locked off. 
For quite a while, Final Fantasy XI was the only game that made use of services external to XBL (it had it's own subscription, separate from XBL Gold), it was a strategic move on MS' part to try and help establish the console.

Is it in the interest of gamers? Only if it's implemented absolutely perfectly. As soon as you start getting discontent and people start arguing "They won because they have the PS4 version, it's an advantage" etc, it all falls apart.
Even in DR, that's a factor. The XB1 version has more documented drops in framerate.
MS have also been very specific in mentioning cross-play would be done to user choice, and options would be in place to ensure that if you want, you will ONLY play people on the same system as you.
I think that's also a little bit telling in their overall confidence level.