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[IDEA] New damage engine for 2014

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I have been playing Codemasters F1 since 2009 on the Wii. And throughout the 4 years I notices that after the huge leap in the damage system  between 09-10 there hasn't been any big changes.

The system works well with the front of your car. But it virtually ignores your side pods and rear wing. I was recently playing it and I was in Monaco and my team-mate plowed into the back of my car during qualifying. He ended up retiring from his suspension tearing apart, but me. I went on with no damage from the incident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmQbUJiEax8 

Next Car Game has a very nice damage engine, which, I feel, something similar to this could make the F1 games much more realistic when it comes to crashes. I would love to be able to see my rear wing hanging at an angle from someone ramming into me, or my side-pods having a dent from when I ran too close to the wall and hit it. Even having a higher chance of my tyre locking up if I touch a wall and damage my wheel.

So anyway, what changes do you want from the damage engine, or do you even want any changes to it?

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It should be like the first Grid but FIA license stuff is probably what stops Codemastersd. They could do better damage in F1 games if they wanted I'm sure, but they probably aren't allowed to.

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The license restrictions are still in-place (the side pod areas are sadly a no-go for now). However we appreciate there's always room for improvements in the areas we can simulate.

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So many people want the damage to be more realistic - I just don't get it! 

Touring Cars etc - yes, you drive on with your wing falling off, skirt scraping on the floor etc, but in F1, one tiny little thing - end of race - I don't care what my car looks like when race is over. 

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Hatta said:
The license restrictions are still in-place (the side pod areas are sadly a no-go for now). However we appreciate there's always room for improvements in the areas we can simulate.
I really do not understand this. Do FOM just not allow you to add damage to certain areas of the car?

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Hatta said:
The license restrictions are still in-place (the side pod areas are sadly a no-go for now). However we appreciate there's always room for improvements in the areas we can simulate.
So do you appreciate it, or will you implement them? Tyres need to be more vulnerable and suspension does not bounce off walls!

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If EA can get it so that I can play Ronaldo at Barcelona or Messi at Real Madrid then how can you not allow me to have damaged side pods?

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AMS97KRR said:
If EA can get it so that I can play Ronaldo at Barcelona or Messi at Real Madrid then how can you not allow me to have damaged side pods?
Because one is Fifa and the other is FIA. They both have different restrictions on what can and can't happen in their games and the developers must follow these restrictions.

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So do you appreciate it, or will you implement them? Tyres need to be more vulnerable and suspension does not bounce off walls!
incorrect just like hamilton proved in silverstone if the face of the wheel is parallel to the surface the vehicle comes in contact with then the suspension is so strong in the perpendicular direction that 0 damage should be the outcome, however i understand u meant not just brushing off a wall and more running into it haha sorry just felt like being a smart alic, yes suspension should be much more brittle but that would mean the stupid poles on corners the dont exist in real life e.g turn 16 at monaco MUST be removed i hit that stupid pole almost every lap its unnecessary and if the suspension was made more damage proof people would become frustrated with it because youd break ur suspension every 2 laps cause C/M for some reason decided to alter the track in an unrealistic fashion however on the opposite hand the bump going into mirabeau would need to be made more aggressive cause in 2013 you can drive over it without any effect what so ever so as much as we need more realistic damage all over the cars i think we need more intteligent A.I so the dont try to kill you, specially when they're either on slow down qualy laps or just come out of pits for qualy and better track creation so that things like the pole at monaco turn 16 stops irritating people. only then i believe could you realistically up the damage simulation otherwise all you'd do is frustrate people

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I really don't get why every year the damage engine comes to hunt the forums. Why? Is it for the replays? I do get that you want the car to have real looking damage in race games where the goal is to bump into each other. But with F1 I don't get that. Everything goes so fast you hardly have time to watch the cars that collided. But the goal of the game is to get your car intact to the finish.

Maybe it's me and I don't know what i'm missing with the damage engine you guys have in mind but I have been satisfied so far with the pieces flying of the cars that collide in the F1 series.

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I really don't get why every year the damage engine comes to hunt the forums. Why? Is it for the replays? I do get that you want the car to have real looking damage in race games where the goal is to bump into each other. But with F1 I don't get that. Everything goes so fast you hardly have time to watch the cars that collided. But the goal of the game is to get your car intact to the finish.

Maybe it's me and I don't know what i'm missing with the damage engine you guys have in mind but I have been satisfied so far with the pieces flying of the cars that collide in the F1 series.
I really don't get why people don't understand that damage and crashes are an integral part of racing. And if you want to be realistic in any form, you need a good damage model system.

That said, I was pretty content with 2012's. Although I wish the game didn't go into auto slow motion when you wrecked out.

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Hatta said:
The license restrictions are still in-place (the side pod areas are sadly a no-go for now). However we appreciate there's always room for improvements in the areas we can simulate.
Could you maintain the shape of the sidepods on an accident, but apply a damaged/scratched texture to them at least?

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Hatta said:
The license restrictions are still in-place (the side pod areas are sadly a no-go for now). However we appreciate there's always room for improvements in the areas we can simulate.
Could you maintain the shape of the sidepods on an accident, but apply a damaged/scratched texture to them at least?

They do already get scratched?

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Yeah but I mean more simulating heavier damage through texturing alone, so technically the shape isn't deformed or broken, but it looks damaged.

Besides I haven't been able to play any F1 games yet, as my PC is too old. New one in the not-too-distant-future!

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I've wanted a better damage model (as anyone who saw my Stevie Wonder vid will attest to), since F1 2010 and asked for it in the Call for Questions when I visited Codemasters in Birmingham before the launch of F1 2011.

Steve replied with the same things we've been hearing. "The license is restrictive". Fair enough. I would like to see the following though:

  • Proper suspension buckling on contact with the walls or another car.
  • Shards of carbon fibre that stay on the track and cause the odd puncture. Properly modelled.
  • Having to nurse the car with tiny bits of superficial damage.
  • Punctured tires giving up, shredding and causing damage to the bodywork as in real life.
  • Tires occasionally getting torn completely away and rolling.
All of the above happening to the AI cars too.

I suppose a lot of the restrictions will be FIA and a lot will be down to hardware too. Hopefully the new generation consoles will make it possible in the future. The other big problem is testing these kinds of anomalies. Must be very difficult from a programming perspective to deal with the outcomes of crashes/failures.

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I've wanted a better damage model (as anyone who saw my Stevie Wonder vid will attest to), since F1 2010 and asked for it in the Call for Questions when I visited Codemasters in Birmingham before the launch of F1 2011.

Steve replied with the same things we've been hearing. "The license is restrictive". Fair enough. I would like to see the following though:

  • Proper suspension buckling on contact with the walls or another car.
  • Shards of carbon fibre that stay on the track and cause the odd puncture. Properly modelled.
  • Having to nurse the car with tiny bits of superficial damage.
  • Punctured tires giving up, shredding and causing damage to the bodywork as in real life.
  • Tires occasionally getting torn completely away and rolling.
All of the above happening to the AI cars too.

I suppose a lot of the restrictions will be FIA and a lot will be down to hardware too. Hopefully the new generation consoles will make it possible in the future. The other big problem is testing these kinds of anomalies. Must be very difficult from a programming perspective to deal with the outcomes of crashes/failures.
That video was amazing! 

Expanding on your post, I think the wheel tethers would be great. In crashes now, the wheels don't do flying around, they're still attached to the car by the tethers (look at Raikkonen's crash last weekend).

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I only care about the damage in relation to racing.  Like punctures... I never get one.  If I brush the wall or make contact with someone, I  should come away with a pucture.  Or as the OP said, the rear wing should show damage or hang at an angle and it should affect the downforce.

I don't really care if all the pieces fall off my car when I wreck it or not though. 

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I've wanted a better damage model (as anyone who saw my Stevie Wonder vid will attest to), since F1 2010 and asked for it in the Call for Questions when I visited Codemasters in Birmingham before the launch of F1 2011.

Steve replied with the same things we've been hearing. "The license is restrictive". Fair enough. I would like to see the following though:

  • Proper suspension buckling on contact with the walls or another car.
  • Shards of carbon fibre that stay on the track and cause the odd puncture. Properly modelled.
  • Having to nurse the car with tiny bits of superficial damage.
  • Punctured tires giving up, shredding and causing damage to the bodywork as in real life.
  • Tires occasionally getting torn completely away and rolling.
All of the above happening to the AI cars too.

I suppose a lot of the restrictions will be FIA and a lot will be down to hardware too. Hopefully the new generation consoles will make it possible in the future. The other big problem is testing these kinds of anomalies. Must be very difficult from a programming perspective to deal with the outcomes of crashes/failures.
That video was amazing! 

Expanding on your post, I think the wheel tethers would be great. In crashes now, the wheels don't do flying around, they're still attached to the car by the tethers (look at Raikkonen's crash last weekend).
Thanks Pete! Yeah I know what you mean about the tethers, although there are occasions where they fail. I suppose what we all want to see is something more like real F1 events. Not particularly our own cars smashing to bits, but seeing more accidents in general. I have a mod on my PC for making the sensitivity of cars much higher which kind of does the trick, but I'd still like to see AI cars coming together causing bodywork damage, carbon fibre bits breaking off, punctures that degenerate the tires over the course of trying to get back to the pits, more cars spinning out into the gravel or into a barrier etc. I'm sure (or at least sure in my own head) that some of these things aren't possible because of hardware limitations. Hopefully the new consoles can open the door up for more intelligent (should that be less intelligent :-? ) AI driving and more incident-filled racing in general.

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One of the best damage engines was Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix 3 Season 2000 add on and Grand Prix 4, as they added debris collisions, so you had to be actually careful not to hit debris!

The Crammond games also had amazing wheel-to-wheel collisions/flips. I haven't tried the latest Codemasters F1 games so I don't know where their system is currently, but back in Grand Prix 3 and 4 you had to be careful not to collide with a cars wheels, which added something to the wheel-to-wheel battles.

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An easy way to solve the collision dilemma is to make damage realistic. Overshoot the turn and hit a wall - race over, run over the elevated yellow/orange kerbs - suspension breaks and race is over, bounce off another car - get airborne and the race is over. Also, if you hit the wall and lose your front wing, I'm pretty sure that should effect the car more. F1 cars aren't meant to sustain much damage and hopefully it'll teach those online to race clean and not bulldoze into others or their race is over. This is also a big reason why a safety rating should be added into F1 2014 Online for a better experience.

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If more realistic damage isn't possible, then at least make the cars easily prone to damage and have more realistic collisions (going airborne after colliding with wheels or flipping) F1 Championship edition 2006 has very sensitive cars (rear wing comes off after barely hitting a barrier, tires fall off easily, front wing breaks easily, etc.). Codemasters should look how they made not just their damage system but the entire game (the best f1 game for that console generation in my opinion). Also, does codemasters know that F1 has something called "wheel tethers"?

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Great suggestions above. After 4 games you'd think there would be some improvement to enhance the experience. Making damage more realistic really would make people more cautious when driving, reduce the number of collisions and make for a much better game. I've hardly played on F1 2013 due to it being hardly any different to 2012. I've gone from buying F1 games no matter what to waiting to see if there's any point due to the improvements being so little. 

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