This game is so frustrating if you can't play it consistently.

[DarkRedslayer 43]

Hadn't been able to play for over a week, and prior to that I'd made my way up to the 3rd level of the career mode and was trying Group B's and after not playing for that time, I was completely useless. I finally just quit the championship and went back to the lower tier. Such a frustrating experience. I love the direction the game has taken, but I almost feel like it's gone too far towards hardcore only gameplay. At the very least, let me set a difficulty in career that I can be competitive at, and get rid of the tiered no choice nonsense.

[Spokster 0]

Don't quit the championship, it's better if you just drive through carefully and maybe still finish in the top ten, you might still continue, don't focus on winning, that's not the goal of Dirt Rally, the goal is to survive and upgrade your cars as you drive it, it doesn't matter if you end up 7th or first, the payout is almost the same, and that's really all you're doing it for anyway, because all cars and stages are already available in Custom Events anyway.

The important part of this game is that you enjoy driving, if that's not the case and the only way you can get satisfaction is by winning, then maybe this is not the game for you.

[DarkRedslayer 43]

Spokster said:

Don't quit the championship, it's better if you just drive through carefully and maybe still finish in the top ten, you might still continue, don't focus on winning, that's not the goal of Dirt Rally, the goal is to survive and upgrade your cars as you drive it, it doesn't matter if you end up 7th or first, the payout is almost the same, and that's really all you're doing it for anyway, because all cars and stages are already available in Custom Events anyway.

The important part of this game is that you enjoy driving, if that's not the case and the only way you can get satisfaction is by winning, then maybe this is not the game for you.

Never heard of a race where the objective wasn't to win. And I'm sure if you asked a real rally driver if he wanted to compete for the win, or 7th, he'd say the win.

It's one thing to have a few bad runs and finish poorly, it's another entirely to have no hope of winning. If you enjoy losing then I'm happy for you, I don't. If I don't have the slightest chance in hell of winning, then there is really no point in bothering. Besides, you'd never keep a ride in real racing very long if your goal was to "make it to the end" and not "to compete for the win" If I'm not even in the hope of getting top 5 without mistakes, then it's pointless.

What some of you need to realize, is that not everyone who enjoys rally, wants to spend their time losing constantly, or has no life and can practice constantly to be able to win. At the end of the day, this is a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not frustrating. And simply allowing me to run the level of difficulty that allows me to enjoy myself and compete for top 5 positions and occasionally wins is hardly asking too much.

It doesn't help that you're stuck with a car once you buy it, even if it's ****. 

Also thanks for assuming that the only way I get satisfaction is winning, shows how much I should value your opinion in the future.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

DarkRedslayer said:

At the very least, let me set a difficulty in career that I can be competitive at, and get rid of the tiered no choice nonsense.

Looks like someone hasn't realised there's something called "Custom Championship".

[BadD0g 0]

Please don't be so aggressive, @darkredslayer. We're just trying to help you get more enjoyment out of the game because it's probably not going to change from the way it is now. 

"Never heard of a race where the objective wasn't to win. And I'm sure if you asked a real rally driver if he wanted to compete for the win, or 7th, he'd say the win."
"Besides, you'd never keep a ride in real racing very long if your goal was to "make it to the end" and not "to compete for the win"'
In lower-tier rally, making it to the end is absolutely the #1 goal. Look at some reports of real rallies, it's not uncommon for more than half the starting pack to not finish at all. You're fighting the stages almost more than you're fighting other drivers, that's just the nature of the sport. At higher levels, yes, winning becomes priority, but not when you're starting out. Watch Chris Harris' video of his first attempt at the Wyedean rally, just as he was starting to get a groove, he damaged the car, and that was it. The game is comparatively much more fair, but rally is just not a 'fair' sport. When you are inexperienced, or even sometimes if you are experienced, the stage is the #1 opponent.

"What some of you need to realize, is that not everyone who enjoys rally, wants to spend their time losing constantly, or has no life and can practice constantly to be able to win."
People practice because they enjoy improving, not because they "have no life." To many of the people who play this game, it's not a matter of 'win' or 'loose,' it's about getting that perfect rhythm, getting a clean stage, enjoying the cars, fighting though awful conditions, limping the car home on three wheels - that's why we love this game, it doesn't simplify the sport into "get first place or start over" like a lot of racing games do, it gives us these different layers of challenge and leaves us to make it through them. If you don't like that, it's fine, but understand that that's why the game is the way it is.

"And simply allowing me to run the level of difficulty that allows me to enjoy myself and compete for top 5 positions and occasionally wins is hardly asking too much."
I won't defend the career mode because I know it's not to everyone's liking, but as I mentioned before it works well with the "finishing is more important than winning" mentality because it doesn't focus on winning, if you do well you are promoted but it's up to you to improve your times if you want to keep in the top three. This may not be exactly like real rally but it is a better analog to it than choosing your own difficulty, because in real life you don't get to choose how good your opponents are. I know this is a video game and not real life, but this is what the devs felt was the most authentic, and it's likely not going to change.

It doesn't help that you're stuck with a car once you buy it, even if it's ****. 
I'm sure you know this already but you can try cars out in Custom Events for free, or in the online events if that's your thing. I find the online events to be much lower pressure than career mode because of the sheer number of people competing, but that's just me.

[thecraicbear 0]

DarkRedslayer said:
What some of you need to realize, is that not everyone who enjoys rally, wants to spend their time losing constantly, or has no life and can practice constantly to be able to win. 

I am a full-time mature student undertaking a degree with a part-time job, and am winning every Masters championship. 

You don't have to give blood to this game to get better, you just need to analyse your errors or where you can improve, and just get better. It sounds elitist when I say, "just get better", but it's true. All this game takes is patience and logic. 

Play custom championships if you don't like being under your own pressure to win whilst trying to improve. This game aims for authenticity, so it makes sense for me to say that you won't find people like Mads Ostberg complaining when he's not winning every week. Rally drivers drive to win, but also recognise they can only go as fast as their own abilities or cars allow.

[DocStrangelove 165]

DarkRedslayer said:

"Never heard of a race where the objective wasn't to win. And I'm sure if you asked a real rally driver if he wanted to compete for the win, or 7th, he'd say the win."

Never heard of a rally driver who'd say "if I don't win, screw this shit." That sort of racer would have quit after their very first karting event. That's the attitude of boys who don't really mean it.

"It's one thing to have a few bad runs and finish poorly, it's another entirely to have no hope of winning. If you enjoy losing then I'm happy for you, I don't. If I don't have the slightest chance in hell of winning, then there is really no point in bothering. Besides, you'd never keep a ride in real racing very long if your goal was to "make it to the end" and not "to compete for the win" If I'm not even in the hope of getting top 5 without mistakes, then it's pointless."

It's not pointless. Dirt Rally asks for your dedication, and it will reward you. If you don't want a challenge, then actually it might be better to return to Dirt 1-3 or Motorstorm or whatever. And if you think that real racing drivers wouldn't care much about "making it to the end", you have no idea about motorsports whatsoever.

There is no "hopeless" in Dirt Rally. Your only excuse is that you're not trying hard enough. And it's not that hard. Anyone can prevail in Masters championships if he tries hard enough.

"What some of you need to realize, is that not everyone who enjoys rally, wants to spend their time losing constantly, or has no life and can practice constantly to be able to win. At the end of the day, this is a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not frustrating. And simply allowing me to run the level of difficulty that allows me to enjoy myself and compete for top 5 positions and occasionally wins is hardly asking too much."

Your problem is that most other stupid games (or stupid elders etc.) told you it's all about winning. In the real world, you won't win after half an hour of practice. In the real world, it's not even about being 1st, because that's mostly reserved to freaks. Your aim should be to be good and to be proud of your achievements. That's got nothing to do with being "1st" in a video game.

You want a video game to be quick fun and an easy win, fine. There are many games that give you that. But don't complain that every game has to be like that.

"Also thanks for assuming that the only way I get satisfaction is winning, shows how much I should value your opinion in the future."

You're talking about little else, so sorry if people take you at your word.

[Spokster 0]

DarkRedslayer said:

What some of you need to realize, is that not everyone who enjoys rally, wants to spend their time losing constantly, or has no life and can practice constantly to be able to win. At the end of the day, this is a video game. It's supposed to be fun, not frustrating. And simply allowing me to run the level of difficulty that allows me to enjoy myself and compete for top 5 positions and occasionally wins is hardly asking too much.

It doesn't help that you're stuck with a car once you buy it, even if it's ****. 

Also thanks for assuming that the only way I get satisfaction is winning, shows how much I should value your opinion in the future.

If you don't want to lose, then don't give up, you think I can just buy a car in real life and start winning rallies right off the bat?
No, it takes practice, trial and error, you get nowhere with giving up.

Ask any WRC driver how much % of driving they are giving, most of them will say somewhere between 90-95%, because giving 100% will risk making mistakes, and as you might know, make a mistake, you lose a lot of time, it's better to be 10 seconds slower by driving less then 100% and making it to the finish, instead of crashing into a tree and losing 15+ seconds.

You can play Custom championship and set your own difficulty.

[likewise 19]

The game is extremely hard and unforgiving especially in the Rally stages and I agree that it's not for the casual racer. Even after a month of daily racing it's hard to pull off the perfect stage without messing up somewhere making "pick up and play" kinda non-existent in the game. Maybe we have been dumbed down by rewind features and slow A.I but sometimes it's just plain fun to rip around the track blindly and win... 

[Evilsmurf 90]

I personally think the game's fine, very challenging and for the first time, in a long time! I actually have to try to win!
Makes a refreshing change for a dev to make something challenging, in stead of all the copy paste dumbed down crap we get these days that hold your hand and massage your ego.

[zeph97 0]

If I am a newbie, this is what I will do.
0. Watch all the tutorial videos in game several times.
1. Find a playground stage, keep driving on it to practice all the rally driving techniques. No need to think about pacenotes yet, just remember the stage for now. Pant Mawr/Reverse is good I think. Keep improving the stage time second by second until you are confident with your driving skill. This will take many hours of your time.
2. Learn how to drive with pacenotes on the playground stage.
3. Do Open Championship, just finish all the stages cleanly. No need to worry about winning yet. Don't forget to turn off all the timer/progress HUD because it will distract you A LOT.
4. Turn off pacenotes/co-driver HUD. Just listen to it.
5. Win Masters Championship after hundred of hours in game.

Colin McRae: Pedal To The Metal Rally Driving

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbTbZfUKChY

edit: remove thousand hours :)

[shadow118 18]

zeph97 said:

If I am a newbie, this is what I will do.
0. Watch all the tutorial videos in game several times.
1. Find a playground stage, keep driving on it to practice all the rally driving techniques. No need to think about pacenotes yet, just remember the stage for now. Pant Mawr/Reverse is good I think. Keep improving the stage time second by second until you are confident with your driving skill. This will take many hours of your time.
2. Learn how to drive with pacenotes on the playground stage.
3. Do Open Championship, just finish all the stages cleanly. No need to worry about winning yet. Don't forget to turn off all the timer/progress HUD because it will distract you A LOT.
4. Turn off pacenote/co-driver HUD. Just listen to it.
5. Win Masters Championship after hundred/thousand of hours in game.

Kinda disagree with points 3 and 4. The only distracting thing is the split times, that show up in the middle of the screen. The pacenote HUD actually is very usefull, especially in the beginning. You might miss or missunderstand a pacenote, but there's still the little graphic in the HUD that show's the note and that helps. 

[Spokster 0]

zeph97 said:

If I am a newbie, this is what I will do.
0. Watch all the tutorial videos in game several times.
1. Find a playground stage, keep driving on it to practice all the rally driving techniques. No need to think about pacenotes yet, just remember the stage for now. Pant Mawr/Reverse is good I think. Keep improving the stage time second by second until you are confident with your driving skill. This will take many hours of your time.
2. Learn how to drive with pacenotes on the playground stage.
3. Do Open Championship, just finish all the stages cleanly. No need to worry about winning yet. Don't forget to turn off all the timer/progress HUD because it will distract you A LOT.
4. Turn off pacenote/co-driver HUD. Just listen to it.
5. Win Masters Championship after hundred/thousand of hours in game.

I disagree with point 5, although I have played some rally games in the past, it took me about 132 hours to complete a Masters Championship, maybe even less. Maybe with the new locations like Sweden and Finland added it might take a little longer, but it's definitely doable under 150 hours.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Spokster said:
I disagree with point 5, although I have played some rally games in the past, it took me about 132 hours to complete a Masters Championship, maybe even less. Maybe with the new locations like Sweden and Finland added it might take a little longer, but it's definitely doable under 150 hours.

I got first Master championship win (with Quattro in Group B on V1 physics) in under 100 hours. That's with a gamepad and not a fancy pantsy steering wheel. So it's definitely more than doable.
Practice, patience and learning from mistakes. If you're good at those 3 things, you'll be beating AI in no time at all.

[NLT 0]

I also disagree with the comment on the hundreds of hours. Before DR I had never played any racing game without assists and with a proper wheel, so I had zero experience with a decently simulated drive.

I bought a Logitech DFGT (100 eur investment), turned off all assists from day 1 (left automatic transmission though) and I won my first masters championship with a group B awd in 60ish hours. It was the most rewarding win I've ever gotten in any PC game in 15+ years of gaming. Ok, maybe not more rewarding than my first Gladiator title at WoW, but a close second.

Buy a wheel and have patience

[RyuMakkuro 6]

RinusRally said:

With 100000 restarts, I supposeee ;) @NLT  

Just because you're not particularly good with the steering wheel doesn't mean someone else isn't. Not to mention that the restarts don't "turn back" the time that has passed. I'd say the reason he did it in 60 hours is exactly because he didn't restart as much. I did a lot, thus it took me in under 100 hours.

[fernandito01 0]

DarkRedslayer said:

Hadn't been able to play for over a week, and prior to that I'd made my way up to the 3rd level of the career mode and was trying Group B's and after not playing for that time, I was completely useless. I finally just quit the championship and went back to the lower tier. Such a frustrating experience. I love the direction the game has taken, but I almost feel like it's gone too far towards hardcore only gameplay. At the very least, let me set a difficulty in career that I can be competitive at, and get rid of the tiered no choice nonsense.

same problem here. After all these years of Dirt trash for the casual scourge we finally get a good rally game with very nice physics, but then they go full retardation with the AI times, to the point you can clearly see they're purely nonsensical and artificial. They just encourage you quit playing chapionship regardless the games quality. Too bad

[Kakkela 3]

fernandito01 said:

DarkRedslayer said:

Hadn't been able to play for over a week, and prior to that I'd made my way up to the 3rd level of the career mode and was trying Group B's and after not playing for that time, I was completely useless. I finally just quit the championship and went back to the lower tier. Such a frustrating experience. I love the direction the game has taken, but I almost feel like it's gone too far towards hardcore only gameplay. At the very least, let me set a difficulty in career that I can be competitive at, and get rid of the tiered no choice nonsense.

same problem here. After all these years of Dirt trash for the casual scourge we finally get a good rally game with very nice physics, but then they go full retardation with the AI times, to the point you can clearly see they're purely nonsensical and artificial. They just encourage you quit playing chapionship regardless the games quality. Too bad

But that's just not true, if you drive with OK pace without big mistakes you will advance in Career mode.

[Rockefelluh 0]

Kakkela said:

fernandito01 said:

DarkRedslayer said:

Hadn't been able to play for over a week, and prior to that I'd made my way up to the 3rd level of the career mode and was trying Group B's and after not playing for that time, I was completely useless. I finally just quit the championship and went back to the lower tier. Such a frustrating experience. I love the direction the game has taken, but I almost feel like it's gone too far towards hardcore only gameplay. At the very least, let me set a difficulty in career that I can be competitive at, and get rid of the tiered no choice nonsense.

same problem here. After all these years of Dirt trash for the casual scourge we finally get a good rally game with very nice physics, but then they go full retardation with the AI times, to the point you can clearly see they're purely nonsensical and artificial. They just encourage you quit playing chapionship regardless the games quality. Too bad

But that's just not true, if you drive with OK pace without big mistakes you will advance in Career mode.

I went from professional top 5 finishes, then intentionally dropped to open. I have only finished stages first a handful of times. No consistency in times I can tell. 

[NLT 0]

RinusRally said:

With 100000 restarts, I supposeee ;) @NLT 

With a fair amount of restarts once I got to Professional, yes. Not trying to simulate real life where you can't restart, just trying to learn from mistakes, restart a stage a few times and get better. Isn't that what the OP wants? To get to a point where he can win?

[fernandito01 0]

Kakkela said:

But that's just not true, if you drive with OK pace without big mistakes you will advance in Career mode.

oh I actually reached elite champ long time ago, scoring third and second places on the others, but never ever have place first in a rally other than once, in the difficulty next to open I think It was, in Germany and Monaco both. Even then, I still think to this day It was an error or something with the game, a glitch or something. Scoring a first place on Dirt rally, and in two rallies?. Must have been a glitch, I'm afraid

I'm just talking about the times of the first pilot, and many times even up to the third on the list. They are FAKE, and that doesn't promote effort regardless some of you wanna keep insisting otherwise. And Greece..., well, what can be said about Greece; the mother of all AI fake times on Dirt Rally.

Also, the fact that stupid decisions like making open difficulty times borderline hardcore too don't really help at all. One thing is that you want to make things kind of realistic, including times, and another story is that you go full freak on the matter.

Whoever decided to make AI times that fake, including borderline hardcore open difficulty times, really needs to quit freaking out like this for the next game. AI times in this game totally reach nerdgasmic levels of superior retardation. And Greece is just the ice on the cake

[shadow118 18]

fernandito01 said:

I'm just talking about the times of the first pilot, and many times even up to the third on the list. They are FAKE, and that doesn't promote effort regardless some of you wanna keep insisting otherwise. And Greece..., well, what can be said about Greece; the mother of all AI fake times on Dirt Rally.

And what's so fake about them? The fact, that you can't beat them makes them fake? While they are not easy to beat, they definately aren't unbeatable

[RyuMakkuro 6]

fernandito01 said:
I'm just talking about the times of the first pilot, and many times even up to the third on the list. They are FAKE, and that doesn't promote effort regardless some of you wanna keep insisting otherwise.

Just so you know, the AI times are based on the actual times done by the DiRT Rally devs. Fastest of them went through every stage while making somewhat clean run and after that they simply scale the time accordingly for the weather conditions, difficulty level etc.
In short, they can't be fake, as devs themselves scored those times. They are at best as fast as devs are.

Also, what that makes me, when I score way over 10s ahead of the first pilot on master level... with a gamepad... and a spin along the way? See for yourself, it's not that hard. It just requires patience, practice and a fully upgraded car to destroy AI at Master level. Everything below is a piece of cake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLF93atR_4M

PS. This is a crappy run in general. So don't try and use it as a practice material. There are better runs out there, I assure everyone.

[graffiti81 0]

Here's my issue. The issue isn't that finishing is most important, the problem is that concept is never really taught because of the terrible damage model. How many gifs or youtube videos have been posted of people doing double back flips after hitting rocks that are 2m tall and continuing. Versus Kris Meeke hits what looks like a little rock and he's out of the rally.

Nothing in this game teaches people that not crashing into stuff is the most important part, because there's very little real penalty for crashing.

[Kakkela 3]

graffiti81 said:

Here's my issue. The issue isn't that finishing is most important, the problem is that concept is never really taught because of the terrible damage model. How many gifs or youtube videos have been posted of people doing double back flips after hitting rocks that are 2m tall and continuing. Versus Kris Meeke hits what looks like a little rock and he's out of the rally.

Nothing in this game teaches people that not crashing into stuff is the most important part, because there's very little real penalty for crashing.

And that is why we don't talk about AI times being unrealistic, but complain that damage model is too forgiving.