How Dirt Rally AI works and win recipe (PS4)

[shadow118 18]

Was testing out some setups in Germany yesterday, it was one of the sprint stages with the 95 Impreza iirc, set the AI to master. After finishing the race, looked at the AI times and the leaderboards. To beat the Masters AI on that particular stage, you had to be in the Top 1500 or so (that is on PC), maybe Germany is easier, but still

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Didzis said:

Was testing out some setups in Germany yesterday, it was one of the sprint stages with the 95 Impreza iirc, set the AI to master. After finishing the race, looked at the AI times and the leaderboards. To beat the Masters AI on that particular stage, you had to be in the Top 1500 or so (that is on PC), maybe Germany is easier, but still

Depends on location. Kakaristo in Finland, you need to score a WR to beat Master AI by over 20s (Top 100 finish will give you a win), but on Kontinjarvi getting into Top 80 will result in over 20s of a lead over Master AI. That said, AI is only fast on Kakaristo in Finland. Probably it goes into SSJ mode xD

[BadD0g 0]

I seriously don't get why so many people come to this forum to complain about how an authentic rally game is difficult. It's like going to a Call of Duty forum and complaining that there's too many guns. The game's hard because rally is hard. It's hard to get first place when you start out, just like real rally. You don't have to win everything to progress in the game, winning doesn't really matter that much. This game is about the driving experience, not first place trophies. Maybe that's not the kind of game you want to play, but that's what 'researching before buying' is for. If the game's not for you, whining on the forum isn't going to solve that.

[coastkey 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

coastkey said:
Whats the point with these posts? This game is very hard, and saying no offense and then offend the guy is just lame!

As you saw from photos on the other thread you have to be among the top 30(Xbox) in the world(on several stages you have to beat the world record...) to beat the best AI on the easiest setting so it doesnt matter what you think when its clearly hard for most gamers playing the game.

Take into account that codriver is not to be trusted, tracks are very far from real with jumps on every corner and concretegravel and snowedges among others, so its nothing wrong with raising ones opinions about this.

Yes, we know you are good at this game so why dont give him some pointers on how to improve instead of beeing condesending?

Newbie = new player at the game
Noob = player who acts like a newbie while having already a lot of hours in the game

So... who's offending who again? I just pointed out a fact -_-

Also, just because Xbox players aren't good at this game doesn't mean anything. On top of that you chose the only class and the only location where AI can give some kind of challenge in rally mode. And a class that is rather rarely chosen to that. Also, the fact that the game is difficult for most players is not a bad thing. It's a good thing, because that means you casuals, instead of being as usual taken by a hand and given a reward for everything you do, you actually need to learn how to play the game.

Co-driver can't be trusted? Maybe try and learn what the calls means before saying that, as every single player here who has no issues beating AI on Master level will tell you, that co-driver notes are essential to driving through the stage at a solid pace. Even when we know the tracks like the back of the hand, the calls are still important to remind us of some nasty spots and time our actions. Raising your opinion about something is good, but that doesn't justify spouting out nonsense just because you're bad at something.

There's an interesting thread stickied at the top, you might want to take a look at it. Here, I'll even link it: http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/40869/community-rally-school-having-questions-bout-driving-techniques-game-features-setups-go-here/p1

If all you're gonna do is complain about AI difficulty and how impossible it is, (while the fact on the matter is that it's too easy actually, apart from few instances) then you're not gonna get any help at all. But if you would come out and ask for tips because you can't manage to defeat AI, you would be showered with people that are willing to teach you.
You know, it's quite a simple thing. You bite, we bite. You play nice, we also play nice.


You are funny. You really think gamers who bought Xbox have less skill on one particular game...Your approach isnt, as you seem to believe yourself, very nice, but mostly condesending and generalizing.

Several corners on this game where codriver tells me "2 right" just as I fly off the road in that sharp right corner, and other corners he gets plain wrong call for that car. 

There are ofcourse also more than one location where you have to be top 20-35 to beat AI, and after more than 25 years of driving rally in Norway and Sweden I have a decent idea what a codriver is supposed to do.... Good luck to you up on that horse....

[thecraicbear 0]

Just the other week I was thinking to myself that many (if not all) complaints about the AI have either been totally unfounded, exaggerated, or complete tripe to the nth degree.

Then I read this thread...

And my thoughts remain the same. 

HOW VERY DARE A CHALLENGING GAME BE CHALLENGING! *shakes fist* 

[RyuMakkuro 6]

coastkey said:
You are funny. You really think gamers who bought Xbox have less skill on one particular game...Your approach isnt, as you seem to believe yourself, very nice, but mostly condesending and generalizing.

Several corners on this game where codriver tells me "2 right" just as I fly off the road in that sharp right corner, and other corners he gets plain wrong call for that car. 

There are ofcourse also more than one location where you have to be top 20-35 to beat AI, and after more than 25 years of driving rally in Norway and Sweden I have a decent idea what a codriver is supposed to do.... Good luck to you up on that horse....

First, I'm a straightforward person, who says what he thinks on top of that. Being nice is something impossible for me as I simply say how things look for me.

I don't think there, I'm just stating an obvious fact. Xbox players at this point in time are less skilled in DiRT Rally than other platforms, be it PC or PS4. Want to change that situation? Git gud.

Third, the only corners that are not accurate are in Finland. Rest is pretty darn accurate. On top of that you need to take different things into account, like "Half" or "Long", which decide how sharp the corner is (you can take more speed through a long, but a lot less through a half) and then you also have things like "crest", "caution", "dip" or "don't cut" (last one is especially important) that inform you need to slow down as you may not be able to take a perfect line there. On top of that if you see there's a highly bouncy and narrow corner full of rocks on the edges, you're supposed to realise that you should be driving slower.

Fifth, if you indeed had so much experience then you would realise all of the things that have been talked here a long time ago. Along with the fact that the pace notes are made by the Dev who also happens to be an actual rally co-driver. No one says those notes are perfect, but once you learn what the calls mean and actually listen to them... they make your life a lot easier. I know that the co-driver in other languages (as in not English) had some issues with wrong calls being said but last time I checked those things were fixed.

Sixth, I already proved more than enough times, that you don't need to bet that high to beat AI times. I scored a 69th time on Kontinjarvi with Sierra Cosworth... and finished over 30 seconds ahead of Master AI. Here, check for yourself. This also includes the ever so doubtful @tmz 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyio5kNkZ7I

Now instead of crying and complaining, start getting better.

[thecraicbear 0]

tmz said:

If you believe in everything that some writes... Oh God, you must have a hard life...

Well it would appear that you don't read anything anybody writes, because if you had some smarts then you'd have realised, through research, that this game (which has been available for over a year now) has a creative direction of being a purposefully challenging game. 

I'll never tire of using this example, but complaining about DR difficulty is like complaining about Dark Souls difficulty. One should know full well that the game has been designed to be hard, so why would one blame anybody else other than themselves for their own ignorance? 

Believe it or not, games are allowed to be difficult, and there's a popular market for it. Why should DR be a game that it was never intending to be just to suit your needs? That's pretty disrespectful towards the work put into the game, and is also pretty selfish. 

[BadD0g 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyio5kNkZ7I

With special guest appearance by @Porkhammer at 5:43  ;)

[KK78 9]

I don't think Dirt is too difficult, I do think the Ai in rally is bum fodder though. The lightening top Ai driver who only ever has one off day is tenuous enough (while the rest of the field often end up an age behind) But then I see that if that top Ai does have his off day, in this case with a head gasket in Monte Carlo he is quickly replaced with previously placed 3rd guy who (obviously seeing his time to shine) suddenly goes very fast for the remaining stages even though he was way behind earlier in the event.

It's not the end of the world and I don't want it to be easier, I'd just like some variety in the challengers, I'd happily take 3-4 fast guys to compete with aside from just the one same guy through a whole championship.

[Evilsmurf 90]

KK78 said:

I'd happily take 3-4 fast guys to compete with aside from just the one same guy through a whole championship.

Sebastien Loeb: Consecutive World Champion 2004 - 2012

Sebastien Ogier: Consecutive World Champion 2013 - 2015. Current WRC point leader

Tommi Makinen: Consecutive World Champion 1996 - 1999

Turns out that you DO get one fast guy that wins everything through a whole championship in real life

[zoliRX 3]

tmz said:

If you believe in everything that some writes... Oh God, you must have a hard life...

Reading comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point. Clearly, you seem to be struggling with life far more than me.

Though, I'm genuinely interested in how long you've had the game. I've been playing it since release day on the PS4 with the DS4, and while I adapted very quickly to the controller from the get-go, it's not until now that I've started to consistently beat the AI on Master difficulty in some countries. It all comes down to knowing the stages and the cars. This is a game where you have to suck before gittin' gud. It takes time.

Come to terms with that fact and you will be rewarded in the end. 

[APR193 0]

Evilsmurf said:

KK78 said:

I'd happily take 3-4 fast guys to compete with aside from just the one same guy through a whole championship.

Sebastien Loeb: Consecutive World Champion 2004 - 2012

Sebastien Ogier: Consecutive World Champion 2013 - 2015. Current WRC point leader

Tommi Makinen: Consecutive World Champion 1996 - 1999

Turns out that you DO get one fast guy that wins everything through a whole championship in real life

When the game is not based on a particular series/set of real life drivers though it doesn't need to be setup that way, and the game could be a lot more fun/unpredictable in terms of competition offline if the Ai was 1) a lot closer together, at least at the top, and 2) had slightly more variety with who was quickest each sector/stage/rally. I don't want Project Cars' complete random number generator that meant in a single make class someone who dominated one race would be the slowest at the next for no reason, but a little bit of logical variety would be great.

[thecraicbear 0]

APR193 said:

Evilsmurf said:

KK78 said:

I'd happily take 3-4 fast guys to compete with aside from just the one same guy through a whole championship.

Sebastien Loeb: Consecutive World Champion 2004 - 2012

Sebastien Ogier: Consecutive World Champion 2013 - 2015. Current WRC point leader

Tommi Makinen: Consecutive World Champion 1996 - 1999

Turns out that you DO get one fast guy that wins everything through a whole championship in real life

When the game is not based on a particular series/set of real life drivers though it doesn't need to be setup that way, and the game could be a lot more fun/unpredictable in terms of competition offline if the Ai was 1) a lot closer together, at least at the top, and 2) had slightly more variety with who was quickest each sector/stage/rally. I don't want Project Cars' complete random number generator that meant in a single make class someone who dominated one race would be the slowest at the next for no reason, but a little bit of logical variety would be great.

You tend to find that in a lot of different rally championships that there are always the same drivers on the podium, give or take 1 or 2 people, providing the championship isn't made up of random private entries, without consistent competitor entries.
It's majority the same guy winning in a lot of those cases, and the gap between each driver can easily be about 20 seconds from 1st to 2nd, and over about a minute or so from 2nd to 3rd. The general trend seems to be that the lower down the leaderboard you go, the bigger the gap between the cars. 

Being that DR is chasing realism, I think that they do a good job at representing time differences on the leaderboard. No it doesn't need to be set up that way, but seeing as it's the creative direction Codies took, it makes sense to be that way. It's just the type of game it is. 

[fernandito01 0]

lol the dark souls of the racing games haha

oh well

[TonyRickard 17]

BadD0g said:

I seriously don't get why so many people come to this forum to complain about how an authentic rally game is difficult. It's like going to a Call of Duty forum and complaining that there's too many guns. The game's hard because rally is hard. It's hard to get first place when you start out, just like real rally. You don't have to win everything to progress in the game, winning doesn't really matter that much. This game is about the driving experience, not first place trophies. Maybe that's not the kind of game you want to play, but that's what 'researching before buying' is for. If the game's not for you, whining on the forum isn't going to solve that.

Regardless of how authentic it is supposed to be the AI levels are still an aspect of gameplay designed to make it a fun challenge for its customers. At the sharp end is it authentic that a number of us can post times faster than the AI competition at the highest level, does that mean we are better than the real drivers of the era we are driving? I highly doubt it!

Otherwise it is pointless having levels at all it should just be how the real world professional rally drivers would have driven the same stage in that car. AI levels have a very important purpose in engaging customers. IMHO the AI levels are a tad too narrow, too hard at the lowest settings and too easy at the highest.

Rally games are also unique to real world rallying in that we can practice the same stage in same conditions over and over so the gap between novice and world record holders grows significantly over real world rallying.

[OzoreXS 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

V8SC said:

What is this dribble?............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.

Seriously, no offence, but you're just bad. A game shows up that don't hold people by their hand and reward them for winning against AI that doesn't know what a throttle is and you have a gigantic storm of noobs complaining. Suck it up and git gud.

"I´m not saying your a nOOb, but you´re a noob" 

xD

[KK78 9]

Evilsmurf said:

KK78 said:

I'd happily take 3-4 fast guys to compete with aside from just the one same guy through a whole championship.

Sebastien Loeb: Consecutive World Champion 2004 - 2012

Sebastien Ogier: Consecutive World Champion 2013 - 2015. Current WRC point leader

Tommi Makinen: Consecutive World Champion 1996 - 1999

Turns out that you DO get one fast guy that wins everything through a whole championship in real life

A moot point, Loeb is on another level at the pinnacle tier of the sport, an anomaly. He is a Schumacher, a Federer or a Messi- totally light years above his peer group and more the exception than the rule. Should I be meeting Loeb at Novice, Clubman and the lower levels? Sure I'd expect to be up against uber fast drivers (note plural) in Elite but which ever way you stretch it in a game which otherwise provides a good sense of realism generally the Ai  is unrealistic, predictable and fast turns into a 2 horse race every single time. I've followed and watched rallying for over 20 years and Loeb aside my experience of rallying at all levels is that it is widely more competitive than the game depicts. It's a credit to Codies that the gameplay, handling, cars on offer and courses are so good because otherwise the 'competitive' element would get very old, fast imo.

I'm not suggesting there should not be fast drivers, quite the opposite, I'd like more competition at the top and more incidents affecting the field, even Colin Mcrae rarely got through a rally without several incidents be them accidents or technical problems.

[thecraicbear 0]

fernandito01 said:

lol the dark souls of the racing games haha

oh well

It was a loose comparison in order to bring in another scenario of ignorance, not a direct comparison. 
But it looks like you missed that detail due to your joining in of the whinging and foot-stomping. 

Oh well. 

[tmz 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

Take the easiest car and easiest stage - think u  are pro... 
Still waiting for BMW, Stratos/Delta etc in Greece/Wales/MonteCarlo/Sweden and 30+ advantage :) 
And how you can play at this camera ? My eyes bleeding!! :o 

BTW in Germany i have 45+ advantage. Same dificulty as in Finland.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Ladies and gentleman, we've found ourselves a troll here. This concludes the meeting.

[fernandito01 0]

dark souls of the racing games aaahahah can't stop the laughter

as If dark souls was a hard game to beat... lol

[thecraicbear 0]

fernandito01 said:

dark souls of the racing games aaahahah can't stop the laughter

as If dark souls was a hard game to beat... lol

You're just twisting words now, so I'm gonna hope for your sake you're trolling, because if not, you're as thick as the scum on an uncleaned toilet rim. 

My communication with you ends here, because it seems as though you can't be spoken to without you chewing on crayons. 

[fernandito01 0]

heheh yeah go go beating the AI by 30 or so seconds, was it lol, and don't be back xD

[tmz 0]

RyuMakkuro said:

Depends on location. Kakaristo in Finland, you need to score a WR to beat Master AI by over 20s (Top 100 finish will give you a win), 

So they maded game fore 100 peoples...
 Great job Codemasters, Great job...
 But what about the rest of 278,193 players on PC and maybe ~600k players of consoles ? They can not have fun from this game huh ?
 Interesting and again great job Codemasters.
Next time add the info on box "playable only for ~100 players"

EDIT
So Codemasters means Ubisoft, they know how to f*^* up game.

[thecraicbear 0]

This thread needs locking at this point.