Jump to content Jump to content

The EU Referendum


f1since08

Recommended Posts

  • Moderator
Since postal votes can now be posted, I thought it would be a good time to start a thread on the EU referendum. Which way are you voting (if you don't mind sharing) and why?

Don't bite each other's heads off though.

I'll be voting to stay because I believe that the free trade agreement is vital to the North East economy - my friend's Dad is one of the bosses of Komatsu and they are very worried about what will happen to the factory if we vote leave.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't get a vote as I've lived outside the UK too long, but I'd be voting 'stay'. Here in Ireland, at least, the EU generally does more good than harm on balance, and from what my family tell me it's much the same back home.

Frankly, though, I'd rather there wasn't a referendum, because nobody really has the faintest idea what the implications will be either way, least of all the general public. Just seems like a potentially dangerous cop-out from the Government, to me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll be voting leave.

It's mainly because of something called the TPD (Tobacco Products Directive), which has classified e-cigarettes as falling underneath their regulations despite the fact that e-cigarettes don't actually contain tobacco. With the regulations, it'd mean a market of roughly 25,000 different items, would be reduced to around 1,000. 

These devices are 95% safer than smoking (according to the Royal College of Physicians), and other studies seem to show that vaping is roughly as dangerous as breathing regular air. Yet with the TPD regulations (which started May 20th), over the next year e-cigarettes are being regulated to a point where the more basic devices, the ones produced by the big tobacco companies, will be the main ones available on the market. And honestly, those ciga-like things are rubbish. I tried one, and ended up smoking again the same day. Then I tried some decent vaping gear not made by a tobacco company, and within a month of using it I'd quit smoking entirely.

The TPD is an EU regulation, and being a member state means we have to go by that directive. Those regulations will stop the sale of the devices which actually work at getting people to stop smoking. 

TL;DR: I'm voting exit because the small minded idiots who came up with these regulations are trying to eliminate devices which have been proven to help people quit smoking, which are the most effective means of quitting smoking, and they clearly don't give a damn about the potential lives saved by these devices (including mine), so they can fuck themselves.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
I don't get a vote as I've lived outside the UK too long, but I'd be voting 'stay'. Here in Ireland, at least, the EU generally does more good than harm on balance, and from what my family tell me it's much the same back home.

Frankly, though, I'd rather there wasn't a referendum, because nobody really has the faintest idea what the implications will be either way, least of all the general public. Just seems like a potentially dangerous cop-out from the Government, to me.
Exactly this. The only reason we're having a referendum is because the Tories had to offer one to fend off the threat from UKIP in the general election. However, no one knows what will happen either way and quite frankly members from both sides have been an absolute disgrace with the horror stories they've faked.

@Hughesy I can understand where you're coming from, but some of the EU laws protect workers rights such as paid holidays, ma/paternertiy leave periods and ensuring part time workers have the same rights as full time workers. Would you really trust a Conservative government to keep these?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mexicola said:
Mexicola said:
There's good reasons to leave and good reasons to stay, but I'm voting stay. EU are a necessary evil for the UK as far as I'm concerned at this juncture.
But you don't even live in the UK :p 
The united free state will come soon enough. Just you wait for it. ;)
When I googled united free state, the first result was an African football club... They're coming to play in the UK? ;) 
Link to comment
Share on other sites





This x1000000000000000
I'll be voting leave.

It's mainly because of something called the TPD (Tobacco Products Directive), which has classified e-cigarettes as falling underneath their regulations despite the fact that e-cigarettes don't actually contain tobacco. With the regulations, it'd mean a market of roughly 25,000 different items, would be reduced to around 1,000. 

These devices are 95% safer than smoking (according to the Royal College of Physicians), and other studies seem to show that vaping is roughly as dangerous as breathing regular air. Yet with the TPD regulations (which started May 20th), over the next year e-cigarettes are being regulated to a point where the more basic devices, the ones produced by the big tobacco companies, will be the main ones available on the market. And honestly, those ciga-like things are rubbish. I tried one, and ended up smoking again the same day. Then I tried some decent vaping gear not made by a tobacco company, and within a month of using it I'd quit smoking entirely.

The TPD is an EU regulation, and being a member state means we have to go by that directive. Those regulations will stop the sale of the devices which actually work at getting people to stop smoking. 

TL;DR: I'm voting exit because the small minded idiots who came up with these regulations are trying to eliminate devices which have been proven to help people quit smoking, which are the most effective means of quitting smoking, and they clearly don't give a damn about the potential lives saved by these devices (including mine), so they can **** themselves.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I believed the 'leave' bunch had any real justification over and above scaremongering their way through the campaign I'd consider leaving. As it is however, anyone who thinks the money  supposedly 'saved' from been in the Euro Union will solve issues around trade, taxation, immigration  and employment then good luck, thinking there will be a nice pot of money for the government to spend on good old Blighty is naive in the extreme- they already spaff billions of that away al on their own.
 
Oh and as for immigration don't be fooled by the hyperbole about how Britain will suddenly be able to control it's borders better, it won't, Europe has little to do with the mass influx of non-European 'better life' seeking migrants/geuine asylum seekers and more to do with the fact our immigration policy is shambolic and this has not changed in the last 15 years.

Don't get me wrong the 'stay' lot are full of it too, scaremongering their way through but at least there is some level of basis because we have experienced it for the last 40 or so years and while it's not all rosy it's not all that bad. Though I'm sure the Daily Mail readers would argue otherwise.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I'm voting remain. This is no way me advocating the EU, I think it's a pile of rubbish in its current state, but by leaving we can't simply ignore it. In any case here is my reasons for voting remain, make of them what you will, they are simply my opinion.

1. The economic argument doesn't convince me. I don't think we will be in a stronger economic position without the EU, we will have to rely far more heavily on trade with the United States as trade with EU countries would be more difficult as by leaving, we would have to go through more red tape to trade successfully with EU countries. I'm not sure our economy is strong enough to go it alone, we don't really produce much anymore.

2. If we left, we wouldn't really leave. We would be so hung up in bureaucracy that we wouldn't actually leave the EU for at least 5 years in my opinion, especially seeing as the Prime Minister and the leaders of the main opposition parties do not want us to leave either. Therefore for that reason also I can't see leaving being beneficial.

3. The Immigration argument doesn't convince me, once you cut through the rubbish spouted by both sides, immigration will remain pretty much the same whether we are in the EU or not, as a post has said above, the EU doesn't have a major impact on our immigration levels, seeing as we haven't actually taken a great deal of European migrants compared to other countries.

So there are my three main reasons, I don't think I've articulated them as best I could have, but either way... I think this referendum is a stupid idea though, neither side has really given us any facts, and there doesn't seem to be any neutral document that gives us a proper for and against argument. The general public hasn't got a clue about the benefits and cons of the EU (myself included), and it just seems like a ploy from Cameron to give us something *positive* that he can keep going back to if he screws up something else... like the NHS for example. 

Both sides have spouted some absolute bo***ks throughout the campaign, I for one will be happy when it's over so we can go back to some form of vague normality.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd be voting stay as although the EU is by no ways perfect, I believe it does more good then harm, it has allowed us to create better ties with other countries and we actually get a really good deal out of it, there are of course things that the EU could do better but overall it's better to be in then out. 

But out the way all the politicians have behaved is an absolute disgrace the amount of rubbish that has come out of their mouths is ridiculous but they are politicians what do we expect?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll be voting to stay. 

In my opinion the best way to help shape the future of Europe is to actively be involved in the EU. I don't see the EU as a bad thing, our economy will only suffer if we leave according to experts. The immigration issue wont be solved by leaving, if we cut off immigration to Europe can you imagine how that would leave us in the eyes of the rest of Europe? 

What if we ever wanted to rejoin? We would never get such a favourable deal as we have now. Honestly I cannot think of a good reason to leave. I don't trust the conservative party, and I'm not sure on the exact details so correct me if I'm wrong, but they would be able to change certain laws that the EU prevents them from doing. I don't remember the specific things, I saw/had a discussion on reddit about it a while back. 

And to be honest I'm not massively against a European super state, which I admit puts me in a minority. 
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hughesy said:
What I don't get is if it's so bad and the end of the world then why would David Cameron even allow us to vote on it?  UK managed very well before the EU was a thing and will again if we leave... 

yeah I'm not 100% sure which way to vote personally however I am leaning towards leave as I feel in some cases we're better off managing our own affairs. Plus I think all this Euro business and stuff and some countries not being able to pay their way will end up dragging us down with it if we stay. I don't like the idea of fitting the bill for somebody else's mistake.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Tories made a promise in their manifesto that the country would vote on the EU membership, it was a way to lure people over who were thinking about voting for UKIP, and as the country is a democracy we get to vote on things.

I don't think you can compare how Britain was before joining the EU to now, the world has changed a lot since then.

One of my big worries is the government renegotiating trade deals, no way will they make them fair for the people but rather look for deals that make them/their friends richer (just look at all the other privatisation the Tories have been a part of). I'm also worried about other things like worker's right, human rights laws and other regulations that the government will look to change when given free reign.

The EU isn't perfect, and staying in means we need to look at renegotiating our deal with them, but staying in is just the better choice to me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We were last not in the EU though over 45 years ago, it's quite a different world we live in now and frankly the only thing I trust less than the EU is our own governments (be them red, blue or whatever) Carte blanche for these idiots is not a good thing, they misuse and pervert the powers they do have already- do you really feel the government represents & is looking out for you?

It's a firm stay vote from me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
Hughesy said:
What I don't get is if it's so bad and the end of the world then why would David Cameron even allow us to vote on it?  UK managed very well before the EU was a thing and will again if we leave... 
Before we joined we hadn't felt any of the benifits of being in it. When we joined British Leyland was the biggest manufacturing industry and we know how that ended. In the EU investment is encouraged by companies and our rights are protected. Out of it we could very well end up back in the 70s - alone and with frequent protests.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bottom line is if you vote leave because you feel it will improve out economy or lessen immigration issues you should really research whether this is really likely. From what I have seen it will make little, if any, difference to either area and could well make the former worse.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

fIsince08 said:
Since postal votes can now be posted, I thought it would be a good time to start a thread on the EU referendum. Which way are you voting (if you don't mind sharing) and why?

Don't bite each other's heads off though.

I'll be voting to stay because I believe that the free trade agreement is vital to the North East economy - my friend's Dad is one of the bosses of Komatsu and they are very worried about what will happen to the factory if we vote leave.
Over half of Britains trade is done outside of the EU, with countries that we have no trade agreement with. So no, I don't think it will be a problem if we leave the single market because we seem to import stuff from the US and China just fine at the moment.

Regarding the vote, I don't want to get too nasty, but this is the most important vote that the UK will take probably for the next 50 years. It deserves a bit more consideration than "I'm voting remain because my mates dad thinks leave would be a bad idea".

You should be voting for yourself and your own interests, because you can bet your bottom dollar that the older generations will be mostly voting for theirs.

If you are young then I think key issues are house prices, population pressures are stopping people from buying houses, so if you want lower housing costs then out is probably the best to vote for, services, if we continue to import people then services such as schools and hospitals will become increasingly stretched unless we pay taxes to fund them, wages, if we continue to increase the labour force then there will be no upward pressure on wages and people on low wages will continue to be exploited.

For remain, if you are interested in working in another country in the EU its a good idea to vote remain. Also if you believe Britain should become part of an integrated european superstate its good to vote remain. Britain has a demographic problem, so importing young people can help address that problem (imbalance between the numbers of old and young people). Importing people also helps keep services cheap.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
dirt3joe said:
fIsince08 said:
Since postal votes can now be posted, I thought it would be a good time to start a thread on the EU referendum. Which way are you voting (if you don't mind sharing) and why?

Don't bite each other's heads off though.

I'll be voting to stay because I believe that the free trade agreement is vital to the North East economy - my friend's Dad is one of the bosses of Komatsu and they are very worried about what will happen to the factory if we vote leave.
Over half of Britains trade is done outside of the EU, with countries that we have no trade agreement with. So no, I don't think it will be a problem if we leave the single market because we seem to import stuff from the US and China just fine at the moment.

Regarding the vote, I don't want to get too nasty, but this is the most important vote that the UK will take probably for the next 50 years. It deserves a bit more consideration than "I'm voting remain because my mates dad thinks leave would be a bad idea".

You should be voting for yourself and your own interests, because you can bet your bottom dollar that the older generations will be mostly voting for theirs.

If you are young then I think key issues are house prices, population pressures are stopping people from buying houses, so if you want lower housing costs then out is probably the best to vote for, services, if we continue to import people then services such as schools and hospitals will become increasingly stretched unless we pay taxes to fund them, wages, if we continue to increase the labour force then there will be no upward pressure on wages and people on low wages will continue to be exploited.

For remain, if you are interested in working in another country in the EU its a good idea to vote remain. Also if you believe Britain should become part of an integrated european superstate its good to vote remain. Britain has a demographic problem, so importing young people can help address that problem (imbalance between the numbers of old and young people). Importing people also helps keep services cheap.
Yes, but there is still a lot of trade done within it. For that, we'll need to negotiate another agreement with the EU - where we'll have to abide by their rules but have no say in them,

I am voting for myself, I just used that as a relevant example. I want to work in the Mech Eng industry after I graduate from uni and the likes of Nissan, Komatsu and Caterpillar all have bases in the North East alone, there are plenty of others around the UK and I fear for what will happen to them if the bosses decide to pull out. It is likely that all of our exports will face tariffs - meaning we'll have to add 10% onto our asking price to cover it and thus put people off buying it. We'll also face the same problem when buying stuff from the EU.

I don't buy this whole "leave the EU to end immigration" business. Most of our immigration is from outside of the EU and a lot of migrants take the jobs that we either don't want to fill or actually can't fill. The system needs reform, not expulsion. If we had a properly funded education system and NHS then we'd alleviate those problems straight away and don't get me started on the government's house building scheme.

Again, I don't want to get nasty, but to me it seems as though there is a whole theory of immigration being bad and a strong sense of nationalism amongst the older generations. That, on the main part, is whittling away with people in their mid-20s (or younger like me) for multiple reasons and I think that is also what is fuelling a lot of younger voters to choose to stay.

I'm not saying that last point applies to everyone btw.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you got figures to back that up? KK78 said:
Yep the whole 'get out the EU to lower immigration issues' is a big red herring, most immigrants (and ironically those that contribute least) come from outside the EU.
http://news.sky.com/story/1706101/student-waffling-cameron-had-it-coming


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3623371/A-defiant-David-Cameron-claims-leaving-EU-terrible-way-cut-immigration-morning-savaged-public-live-TV-waffling-scaremongering-Brexit.html
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
Hughesy said:
Have you got figures to back that up? KK78 said:
Yep the whole 'get out the EU to lower immigration issues' is a big red herring, most immigrants (and ironically those that contribute least) come from outside the EU.
http://news.sky.com/story/1706101/student-waffling-cameron-had-it-coming


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3623371/A-defiant-David-Cameron-claims-leaving-EU-terrible-way-cut-immigration-morning-savaged-public-live-TV-waffling-scaremongering-Brexit.html
I do.
https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

41% of the EU migrants last year came with a definite job. 15& came to study and 7% to live with a partner. 32% came looking for work but it's not actually known how many of these were able to claim benefits.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@dirt3joe What do you think is going to happen if we leave? Are we just going to stop letting Europeans in? Of course not. Ludicrous to suggest otherwise.

Also, there is already too much strain on those services. We have too many people already.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
I'll be voting to leave, without a doubt. Mainly because it will bring some benefits for the family business, but I'm fed up of living in a country controlled by Brussels. We should govern ourselves, we're perfectly capable of it. We should have control of our own borders.

I'm 19 and at university, and it seems the vast majority of my age group will be voting to stay which is pretty interesting.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

MBKF1 said:
I'll be voting to leave, without a doubt. Mainly because it will bring some benefits for the family business, but I'm fed up of living in a country controlled by Brussels. We should govern ourselves, we're perfectly capable of it. We should have control of our own borders.

I'm 19 and at university, and it seems the vast majority of my age group will be voting to stay which is pretty interesting.
We do already, just not to Europe. And most of our immigrants are not from Europe. To add to this, immigration from Europe will not cease. 268,000 Europeans came here in 2014 which made up 48% of total non British inflow. We could easily cut that other 52% right down using an Aussie based points system to allow only the best people in. It is just a case of doing it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
Lukedfrt said:
I don't think any party other than UKIP would bring in the Aussie style points system, which is a shame...
People keep banging on about a points system, but Australia's system is designed to encourage immigration, not lower it...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

                                                                                                                                                                   
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hughesy said:
What I don't get is if it's so bad and the end of the world then why would David Cameron even allow us to vote on it?  UK managed very well before the EU was a thing and will again if we leave... 
It didn't. The UK economy was crap in the 50's and 60's which led to Thatcher who ruined the banking systen...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
Juice29 said:
Hughesy said:
What I don't get is if it's so bad and the end of the world then why would David Cameron even allow us to vote on it?  UK managed very well before the EU was a thing and will again if we leave... 
It didn't. The UK economy was crap in the 50's and 60's which led to Thatcher who ruined everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
Like Prawn, I can't make much sense of that, but it doesn't seem that bad. It fluctuates anyway, always has done. It just happens to have slipped down a bit in the lead up to the referendum. And it was worse last September and February anyway.

Also, did anyone watch Question Time last week? The one with Nigel and Eddie Izzard on. What the heck was he doing on there, he was dreadful. Mind you, I'm not surprised he was on, it's typical BBC getting some random comedian on a serious show.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://medium.com/im-trying-to-fact-check-brexit/fact-checking-brexit-the-conclusion-c1f56ba4cb70#.n53iwu11o

Pretty good (and quick) read on the factual integrity of both sides.

Tomorrow is vote day, and I think the most important thing to say is to vote. That's why we're a democracy so don't miss the chance to have a say.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...