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Competing with Ravenwest


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I really love Autosport and I can say that it has exceeded nearly all of my expectations.

Offline races are great and fun, AI is way better than Grid 2 and it is fun as well despite their unnecessary aggression especially in touring races but I really hate competing with Ravenwest almost in every race and discipline. Some point I feel like I am racing with 2 cars only because they are really fast than other cars almost every time. This reduces fun for me. I want more competing races with all teams and ranking variations. I am playing game with hard difficulty, I do not mind if I can`t win races but I do mind if there is no competition for winning for all drivers.

I`ve spent 30 hours in this game, I do not know if it changes with progression but it really bothers me.
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For Career mode, there isn't really much you can do about it. The AI are coded to be like that. Ravenwest will more-often-than-not rubberband through the pack once you get out in front, especially in the reverse-grid races. The order of the competition changes depending on discipline and car tier (Forge and K&N become serious contenders in Cat B touring cars, for example).

You might enjoy street racing since the grids are always 'championship standings reversed' which means Ravenwest usually start at the back, and they aren't as good at fighting through the grid.


Alternatively, try Custom Cup. The AI seem a bit more balanced there.
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Yeah, I've noticed some pretty obvious rubber banding with Ravenwest too. Like gaining insane speeds down the straights even though they have no one in front to slipstream.

Something I didn't really want to see in a game like this.

They actually all go faster on the straights and accelerate faster than the player, not just Ravenwest. I've actually discovered that the other cars drive even faster when the player is driving for Ravenwest on very hard at least. I assume it's to keep the racing just as close but it's bloody annoying being overtaken on a straight by a bottom end team in car with no upgrades.
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There's obvious rubber banding, and not with just Ravenwest. CM say noooo noooo there isn't..., but the obvious truth is yeeeess yeeesss there isssss. Same happen with the F1 games BTW as this is just same AI.

There's also the infamous distance "bug" so characteristic to the F1 games in GAS, and no one is talking about this another very annoying AI screw up once they get out of sight
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I've seen Ravenwest finish in a wide variety of positions. About halfway through the last championship I played they were fourth in the team standings. FOURTH in the TEAM standings. Honestly I don't know what game half of you are playing with all this talk of cheating superpowered rubber banded lead AI. Sorry to be a dick about this but did you ever consider that maybe you just suck and need practice?
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There definitely isn't rubberbanding in this but the A.I cars are most definitely faster on straights no matter what you do with your setup. There is also not any rubberbanding in the F1 games, the issue with that as I have said a number of times is the A.I race with the same physics as when you have tyre and fuel simulation off.

So let's say with full simulation the best possible lap time is 1:32 and with no simulation it's 1:29 (a situation which does happen in F1) the issue is most of the time they are racing at say 1:35 which you are able to easily match but then Codemasters have a system in place where the A.I regulate their pace based on their distance to the player which from what I have seen kicks in both when they are close enough (like real life to try and overtake) and again when they drop back a certain distance (again fairly realistic behaviour). The issue is instead of increasing to the full simulation max pace the rocket up to the no sim pace and are suddenly pulling of impossible times and close the gap on you easily which then gets interpreted as rubberbanding.

If you turn off all simulation then they are no longer able to keep up even on the hardest difficulty and you can comfortably pull away, I also think that even on the lower difficulties it's actually exacerbated because the difference between their best and the players (due to skill level) is even greater. Grid 1 actually had the exact same problem because it had a setting which decreased grip when turned off but didn't effect the A.I.

The reason behind this is because they only teach the A.I to drive around the tracks with the no simulation settings and I'm pretty sure in the races they aren't even simulating their physics so they just lap at the pre-calculated times based on the difficulty you select. In GRID 2 they just plan cheated, the face-off events had unbelievable rubberbanding.

Now if you want to go down the route of people sucking then yes some of the complaints are people sucking and being outright beaten but within the parameters of how the game is working I fully understand why they think there is rubberbanding, it would actually be a brilliant system if it worked properly, given that real drivers don't just lap at the same pace constantly like in Forza/GT.

Personally if I'm 12th on the touring car global event leaderboard including the cheaters in the loaner car and in the same car in singleplayer on very hard the A.I are still pulling away from me on the straights and accelerating faster then clearly it is not a speed issue. I actually think that the only people able to properly work out where the issues lay are those fast enough to push a car to it's limit and understand whether something happening is impossible or not, at least issues which aren't blatantly obvious anyway.

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There definitely isn't rubberbanding in this but the A.I cars are most definitely faster on straights no matter what you do with your setup.

Yep, that's also known as rubber banding


There is also not any rubberbanding in the F1 games, the issue with that as I have said a number of times is the A.I race with the same physics as when you have tyre and fuel simulation off

They smoke you on straight lines, taking corners, everywhere no matter sim is off, as It is the same AI after all.  That is also known as rubber banding
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hola said:

There definitely isn't rubberbanding in this but the A.I cars are most definitely faster on straights no matter what you do with your setup.

Yep, that's also known as rubber banding


There is also not any rubberbanding in the F1 games, the issue with that as I have said a number of times is the A.I race with the same physics as when you have tyre and fuel simulation off

They smoke you on straight lines, taking corners, everywhere no matter sim is off, as It is the same AI after all.  That is also known as rubber banding
I can prove that the AI have better cars than the player, because I've worked out that Nathan McKane's BMW touring car has no gear ratio setups, and yet with no downforce and a locked diff (best acceleration and straight-line traction) and in the same car, both he and the Kicker touring cars out-accelerate me.

They also corner faster. You can test this yourself on the Indianapolis Oval. I -can- confirm the rubberbanding is most noticeable in Touring Cars and it's of lesser effect in most other disciplines (except for tier 2 street, as their Vanquish will storm everything for some reason).

Ravenwest also speed boost if they get too far behind. I've seen them pull lap times 5 seconds faster than everyone else because they crashed, but caught me back up within 3 laps. This isn't me driving bad. I find them a piece of cake to beat on Hard difficulty from pole.
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yah RW Vanquish is the ultimate lol in what It comes to obvious rubber banding. And what you say about any RW car boosting as soon as they get behind regardless the reason is another obvious proof of that.

But nooo nooooo..., there isn't rubber banding lol
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You guys clearly have no idea what rubberbanding is, I explained very clearly what is actually going on. The A.I having slightly faster cars is NOT rubberbanding and actually although they have faster top speed and acceleration if you are good enough they are still slower than the player can go.

Rubberbanding means no matter how fast you drive you can never break away from the A.I like in Burnout, NFS, Mario Kart etc. and in some situations the opposite also happens, hence the term rubberbanding because once it has been stretched to a certain point it flings them right back at impossible speeds as if they had been shot out of it. Some games even bestow this effect on human cars to help them catch up to the other players Mario Kart being a prime example.

Anyway I'm going to give up now because I know it doesn't even matter what anyway says you will think otherwise but you must be really bad at F1 if you aren't faster than the A.I with no sims because I'm about 1.5-2s a lap faster on the hardest difficulty. However since they are broken as soon as you put sims on and that is how the game is meant to be played I didn't even bother with F1 2013 and won't until the completely overhaul the A.I, it works for GRID but you need to simulate the A.I properly in an F1 game for it not to become infuriating.

And finally this is one of the races I had on a track the A.I are extremely fast on where I'm sure you would cry foul because a few of the corners they visibly catch up to the player. Partly because they overshoot them and go fast in slow out and also because they are after long straights and you are aware that cars bunch up into breaking zones as two cars going 100m/s and two cars going 10m/s, to be 1s apart need to be 100m and 10m apart respectively, I mean you have seen real racing?!

Qualifying:

Race 1:

Race 2 (Reverse Grid):

Qualifying and Race 1 I was a little slower because the whole no restart thing puts me on edge and then having two cars right on me in the race wasn't helpful for relaxing, Thompson Jr was flying though because he was sat in Westley's slipstream for an entire lap and took the fastest lap but I beat it in race 2 with by 0.004s once I hit the front 3/4 of the way through lap 2 and relaxed into race rhythm.

As you can see they don't mess around and it's very easy to be 1s slower from a bad corner and feel like some rubberbanding has gone on because of how the game is and whilst the A.I will consistently fly around at their top speed very very few people can, I know I can't. The few people I have raced over the years who can though beat me nearly every time and I'm always amazed they can be so consistent.

Now I'm rambling so I will just leave it at that.

:)
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They do rubberband - they coast on their brakes if they get too far ahead. Similarly they go even faster if they get too far behind.

During the 2nd Grid championship on the reverse Hockenheim track, myself and the AI were setting the same sorts of lap-times - 1:42 / 1:41. I could keep up with Ravenwest but only because they were coasting on their brakes for the heavy corners, but I couldn't catch up because they'd then somehow rocket away in the same car (For the record I was with Kicker with High capability so I had the -exact- same car for all it matters). Similarly the Forge cars were keeping up because whilst Ravenwest were braking incredibly early, they were braking very late like I was.

Come the end of the race, one of the K&N cars - who had qualified 4th but had crashed at the start - posted a fastest lap-time four seconds faster then everybody else. Four. Seconds.



But, to quote somebody, "Anyway I'm going to give up now because I know it doesn't even matter what anyway says ". Now, don't tell me I couldn't beat the AI on F1 either. They were a complete joke with tire wear off and with tire wear on I had no problem keeping up with Saubers and Force Indias in a Caterham (F1 2011 and F1 2012) even on the higher difficulties.
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Can the AI use draft?, I think they can, I look back sometimes and they use different lines on the straights depending how close they are to me and seem even to change from their line to mine to use my slip. !! :-S
And it only takes one bad corner from me for them to be back up my ar5e on my tail. A few times Ive been pushing for 1st only to spin or slip and drop back to 3rd (no flashbacks) and I hate it when that happens, usually the last lap Grrr.
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Loggy said:
Can the AI use draft?, I think they can, I look back sometimes and they use different lines on the straights depending how close they are to me and seem even to change from their line to mine to use my slip. !! :-S
And it only takes one bad corner from me for them to be back up my ar5e on my tail. A few times Ive been pushing for 1st only to spin or slip and drop back to 3rd (no flashbacks) and I hate it when that happens, usually the last lap Grrr.
Yeah they draft. They don't make good use of it in the one discipline where it's important, though (open wheel ... they're terrible at overtaking even on straights.)
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They do rubberband - they coast on their brakes if they get too far ahead. Similarly they go even faster if they get too far behind.

During the 2nd Grid championship on the reverse Hockenheim track, myself and the AI were setting the same sorts of lap-times - 1:42 / 1:41. I could keep up with Ravenwest but only because they were coasting on their brakes for the heavy corners, but I couldn't catch up because they'd then somehow rocket away in the same car (For the record I was with Kicker with High capability so I had the -exact- same car for all it matters). Similarly the Forge cars were keeping up because whilst Ravenwest were braking incredibly early, they were braking very late like I was.

Come the end of the race, one of the K&N cars - who had qualified 4th but had crashed at the start - posted a fastest lap-time four seconds faster then everybody else. Four. Seconds.



But, to quote somebody, "Anyway I'm going to give up now because I know it doesn't even matter what anyway says ". Now, don't tell me I couldn't beat the AI on F1 either. They were a complete joke with tire wear off and with tire wear on I had no problem keeping up with Saubers and Force Indias in a Caterham (F1 2011 and F1 2012) even on the higher difficulties.

As I said that is not rubberbanding, they are measuring their pace just like all real world drivers do depending on where they are in a race. I'm not even trying to claim the A.I is amazing, all I'm saying is, it is not rubberbanding because they do not go impossibly fast. If you got at the max speed of the car, the A.I simply cannot match it period, if there was rubberbanding it wouldn't matter how fast you drove they would always easily be able to go faster.

You can even look at the code and see the A.I are programmed to do this based on the relative distance to the player. They aren't doing anything impossible but as I said it would not surprise me if on lower difficulties they haven't limited their speed properly so they are increasing their pace up to very hard which gives the perception of rubberbanding because the player isn't fast enough to match it.

Given that they don't even give them the proper full sims pace in F1 it wouldn't surprise me one bit if that was exactly what was happening but I still wouldn't class it as true rubberbanding since with enough skill you are able to go just as fast. Of course that is easier said than done as based on the leaderboards there is probably only 50 or so people capable of lapping fast enough to do so on PC at least.

I'm not arguing with what you are saying not existing, I'm arguing with the premise of what is causing it because the root cause is an issue with the programming of the A.I pacing rather than them specifically adding in rubberbanding to stop you pulling away like NFS does. Given how complex the system is to keep the racing far more realistic than say Gran Turismo which has joke A.I, I don't think it's something they have been able to fix on the current consoles as they don't have the processing power to properly simulate all the A.I cars without sacrificing damage for example.

Personally it is what stopped me buying F1 2013 and also why I won't get a new one until they move to a new engine which actually simulates them as you can't just guess in a game like that as it creates too many issues like them doing dry lap times in the wet.

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Took on ravenwest on medium last night.

Started at the back of the grid. On Paris ADT, openwheeler beat them by 5 seconds in a 5 lap race.

I reckon I could beat them on top level, but I would have to bother to qualify.

I am going to continue practising until I can beat them consistently. This is hard, because there is often low order AI muppetry going on around the start of the race (2 cars spun off and in the middle of the track etc).

BTW has anyone seen the stopped Ai cars in the middle of the practice sessions ? I had two racing backiawrds and forwards across the space in front of the arc playing chicken with me as I zoomed past.
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They do rubberband - they coast on their brakes if they get too far ahead. Similarly they go even faster if they get too far behind.

During the 2nd Grid championship on the reverse Hockenheim track, myself and the AI were setting the same sorts of lap-times - 1:42 / 1:41. I could keep up with Ravenwest but only because they were coasting on their brakes for the heavy corners, but I couldn't catch up because they'd then somehow rocket away in the same car (For the record I was with Kicker with High capability so I had the -exact- same car for all it matters). Similarly the Forge cars were keeping up because whilst Ravenwest were braking incredibly early, they were braking very late like I was.

Come the end of the race, one of the K&N cars - who had qualified 4th but had crashed at the start - posted a fastest lap-time four seconds faster then everybody else. Four. Seconds.



But, to quote somebody, "Anyway I'm going to give up now because I know it doesn't even matter what anyway says ". Now, don't tell me I couldn't beat the AI on F1 either. They were a complete joke with tire wear off and with tire wear on I had no problem keeping up with Saubers and Force Indias in a Caterham (F1 2011 and F1 2012) even on the higher difficulties.

As I said that is not rubberbanding, they are measuring their pace just like all real world drivers do depending on where they are in a race. I'm not even trying to claim the A.I is amazing, all I'm saying is, it is not rubberbanding because they do not go impossibly fast. If you got at the max speed of the car, the A.I simply cannot match it period, if there was rubberbanding it wouldn't matter how fast you drove they would always easily be able to go faster.

You can even look at the code and see the A.I are programmed to do this based on the relative distance to the player. They aren't doing anything impossible but as I said it would not surprise me if on lower difficulties they haven't limited their speed properly so they are increasing their pace up to very hard which gives the perception of rubberbanding because the player isn't fast enough to match it.

Then how can one of the AI suddenly go four seconds a lap faster on Hard difficulty? The pace between Hard and Very Hard is only about a second per lap faster. One of the K&N cars pulls a 1.38 out their ass during a race where the best lap Ravenwest do is 1.41/1.42. This happened in the Australian V8 races as well, where I could visibly see the train of cars taking some particular corners faster and faster the further back they were from me.

In fact, the only difference I see in pace between the AI on Hard and Very Hard is they stop riding their brakes when they're in front of you. This, still, does not explain what I said above, which by your definition is not 'rubberband' and is thus 'possible'. You are forgetting - just because the AI cannot go faster in a straight line than the player, does not mean that they can not accelerate faster, or corner faster (( which, by the way, is what they are coded to do. >_> ))
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They do rubberband - they coast on their brakes if they get too far ahead. Similarly they go even faster if they get too far behind.

During the 2nd Grid championship on the reverse Hockenheim track, myself and the AI were setting the same sorts of lap-times - 1:42 / 1:41. I could keep up with Ravenwest but only because they were coasting on their brakes for the heavy corners, but I couldn't catch up because they'd then somehow rocket away in the same car (For the record I was with Kicker with High capability so I had the -exact- same car for all it matters). Similarly the Forge cars were keeping up because whilst Ravenwest were braking incredibly early, they were braking very late like I was.

Come the end of the race, one of the K&N cars - who had qualified 4th but had crashed at the start - posted a fastest lap-time four seconds faster then everybody else. Four. Seconds.



But, to quote somebody, "Anyway I'm going to give up now because I know it doesn't even matter what anyway says ". Now, don't tell me I couldn't beat the AI on F1 either. They were a complete joke with tire wear off and with tire wear on I had no problem keeping up with Saubers and Force Indias in a Caterham (F1 2011 and F1 2012) even on the higher difficulties.

As I said that is not rubberbanding, they are measuring their pace just like all real world drivers do depending on where they are in a race. I'm not even trying to claim the A.I is amazing, all I'm saying is, it is not rubberbanding because they do not go impossibly fast. If you got at the max speed of the car, the A.I simply cannot match it period, if there was rubberbanding it wouldn't matter how fast you drove they would always easily be able to go faster.

You can even look at the code and see the A.I are programmed to do this based on the relative distance to the player. They aren't doing anything impossible but as I said it would not surprise me if on lower difficulties they haven't limited their speed properly so they are increasing their pace up to very hard which gives the perception of rubberbanding because the player isn't fast enough to match it.

Then how can one of the AI suddenly go four seconds a lap faster on Hard difficulty? The pace between Hard and Very Hard is only about a second per lap faster. One of the K&N cars pulls a 1.38 out their ass during a race where the best lap Ravenwest do is 1.41/1.42. This happened in the Australian V8 races as well, where I could visibly see the train of cars taking some particular corners faster and faster the further back they were from me.

In fact, the only difference I see in pace between the AI on Hard and Very Hard is they stop riding their brakes when they're in front of you. This, still, does not explain what I said above, which by your definition is not 'rubberband' and is thus 'possible'. You are forgetting - just because the AI cannot go faster in a straight line than the player, does not mean that they can not accelerate faster, or corner faster (( which, by the way, is what they are coded to do. >_> ))

I actually said they are in fact in faster cars both in top speed and acceleration, they definitely don't take corners faster than the play can though it just looks that way because the accelerate slightly faster, however, despite this  their fastest lap times are not as fast as the players which is why I assume they do it. I remember someone finding in F1 they gave the A.I cars a 50HP boost again that isn't rubberbanding it's just there to keep them competitive otherwise everyone would complain they are too slow.

I've seen plenty of people take the corners like the A.I at crazy speeds/angles and wondered how the f*** they managed to come out the other side going the same speed as me and did in Grid 1 and Dirt, it's just how it looks. To answer your question on times even on very hard the A.I only match what the player is doing (within reason) until the pace change routine kicks in and then they go up to top speed, so if you aren't anywhere close to it then it will look like a huge jump.

Outside of a few races where the top cars are significantly faster (around 1.5s per lap) I've had no issues like that at all. I haven't unlocked that race yet so I can't comment on whether your time is competitive or not but I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong and apologise if it infact turns out it is complete BS like the Grid 2 A.I.

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To anyone saying "an AI car cornered and/or pulled away faster than me in the same car" 1) They might have upgrades. GAS has upgrades you know. 2) Are you using assists? Because they slow you down. TC/SC/etc seriously cripples your cornering and straight line acceleration in this game.
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Ok, I've done some further testing and I believe just like there was in F1 2010/11 on tracks like Catalunya there are some A.I pacing issues. I've just done the Red Bull Ring in the Cat B Touring Cars, I tried both cars fully upgraded all manner of combinations of tuning (which made no difference to overall times) and they both are good for a 1.38.5, with an absolutely perfect lap they might just push a couple of tenths faster.

Nathan Mckane in his Audi RS5 1.27.7..... :|.

In the actual race the top cars are simply untouchable once they are ahead and will just sit on whatever pace you are doing and if they are behind will constantly try and overtake up the inside and the slam the brakes on if you swerve across and proceed to easily catch up. I think they are probably about 1-1.5s too fast around there as nobody can knock out 4 consecutive perfect laps.

I think there are probably going to be a few other tracks with similar pace issues which I assumed I was 1s off the pace because my car was lower tier but when you are in the best one there isn't much you can do.


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