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Request to David Greco and CM team regarding improving force feedback , handling and car feel 2016

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The force feedback , needs to improve guys... when the car goes over curbs , its good, but on straights , when turning in , mid corner and exit , no real tire feel, no car weight shift...  Please improve this on F1 2016 , otherwise whats the point of all these new career and testing , improving the car  while there is no feel 

Again many thanks for listening to fans.... 

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Please improve this on F1 2016 , otherwise whats the point of all these new career and testing , improving the car  while there is no feel 
While I don't disagree with the FFB request, the vast majority of F1 game purchasers don't play with a wheel. So you're really asking "what's the point of making the game better for most people, who'll never know that one particular bit isn't very good?"

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I must agree force feedback for Thrustmaster T300 RS lacks detail in F1 2015.  :/
I wish they would make a improvement patch.  :/

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F1-2015 is dead, I am sorry to say so. It survived much longer than any other F1-20xx titel, but there wont be any updates.

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Please improve this on F1 2016 , otherwise whats the point of all these new career and testing , improving the car  while there is no feel 
While I don't disagree with the FFB request, the vast majority of F1 game purchasers don't play with a wheel. So you're really asking "what's the point of making the game better for most people, who'll never know that one particular bit isn't very good?"
While I understand the use of hand held controllers out of necessity, why on earth would anyone bug the heck out of a developer for more and more realism and then play the game without a wheel and pedals. If what you say is true, no wonder we are seeing more and more arcade like titles.

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hobbsy777 said:
Please improve this on F1 2016 , otherwise whats the point of all these new career and testing , improving the car  while there is no feel 
While I don't disagree with the FFB request, the vast majority of F1 game purchasers don't play with a wheel. So you're really asking "what's the point of making the game better for most people, who'll never know that one particular bit isn't very good?"
While I understand the use of hand held controllers out of necessity, why on earth would anyone bug the heck out of a developer for more and more realism and then play the game without a wheel and pedals. If what you say is true, no wonder we are seeing more and more arcade like titles.

People have different opinions/perspectives, and I'll undoubtedly get roasted to Hades & back for saying this, but - I've played motorsport games with different wheels & pedals a number of times & I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me over playing with a pad/controller. Quite the opposite, actually...

I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller. I've driven high-performance cars on tarmac race tracks, and it feels like a surreal disconnect highlighting the fake-ness to turn a game wheel without the corresponding physical sensation of strong lateral forces on my body, and to hit the brake pedal in-game without the corresponding physical sensation of forward dive, and to try to find the limit of grip in-game without the corresponding physical sensations of when a car is on the razor edge of its traction, etc.

...Kinda like getting intimate with a blow-up doll: even though it's shaped more like a real human (it's got "arms" & "legs"), the inescapable details of its air-pressure-shaped plastics & its lack of reactions only serve as a stronger distracting reminder that it's not the real thing... Not that I'd know anything about that sort of thing first-hand. 
:) 

I am most certainly not saying anything at all against wheel & pedal players, so please don't take this as a shot fired in a flame-war between factions because it's no such thing. I'm only saying that my input device is a conscious & informed choice/preference, not an objective measure of realism or hardcore-ness.

To me, the level of realism of a driving game's physics can only be judged by how accurately the simulated car responds to simulated conditions. For example... If I brake hard at a certain track-side marker, does this simulated car slow at a similar rate in-game that the same real car would on this same real-world track under these same conditions? ...Or: Does the car lose grip at the same point of simulated lateral G's in-game as the real car would under the same real lateral G's? Etc. ...A driving/racing game with very unrealistic physics but good force feedback played on a wheel would still not be very authentic.

I'm all in favor of heightening the fun & immersion for all players at all skill levels on all platforms using a variety of common input devices. I don't understand why anyone would want others to have less fun with a game. The more the merrier. Game "communities" are already divided too much as it is (wheel users vs. pad users, PC vs. console, console vs. console, region vs. region, hardcore vs. casual, fanboys vs. haters, blondes vs. brunettes vs. gingers, etc.), so any special attention exclusive to just one group only alienates more people.


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With what they have done with Dirt.... I am sure they can produce a great title with F1 2016 force feedback , like Hobbsy said, we pay good money for wheel and pedal so CM should concentrate on improving force feedback .... I mean if MOD community can create amazing force feedback for sim like Rfactor why can CM developer... I am keeping my hopes up for f1 2016 and wishing for a great game.....  

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Operator1 said:

hobbsy777 said:
Please improve this on F1 2016 , otherwise whats the point of all these new career and testing , improving the car  while there is no feel 
While I don't disagree with the FFB request, the vast majority of F1 game purchasers don't play with a wheel. So you're really asking "what's the point of making the game better for most people, who'll never know that one particular bit isn't very good?"
While I understand the use of hand held controllers out of necessity, why on earth would anyone bug the heck out of a developer for more and more realism and then play the game without a wheel and pedals. If what you say is true, no wonder we are seeing more and more arcade like titles.

People have different opinions/perspectives, and I'll undoubtedly get roasted to Hades & back for saying this, but - I've played motorsport games with different wheels & pedals a number of times & I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me over playing with a pad/controller. Quite the opposite, actually...

I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller. I've driven high-performance cars on tarmac race tracks, and it feels like a surreal disconnect highlighting the fake-ness to turn a game wheel without the corresponding physical sensation of strong lateral forces on my body, and to hit the brake pedal in-game without the corresponding physical sensation of forward dive, and to try to find the limit of grip in-game without the corresponding physical sensations of when a car is on the razor edge of its traction, etc.

...Kinda like getting intimate with a blow-up doll: even though it's shaped more like a real human (it's got "arms" & "legs"), the inescapable details of its air-pressure-shaped plastics & its lack of reactions only serve as a stronger distracting reminder that it's not the real thing... Not that I'd know anything about that sort of thing first-hand.  :) 

I am most certainly not saying anything at all against wheel & pedal players, so please don't take this as a shot fired in a flame-war between factions because it's no such thing. I'm only saying that my input device is a conscious & informed choice/preference, not an objective measure of realism or hardcore-ness.

To me, the level of realism of a driving game's physics can only be judged by how accurately the simulated car responds to simulated conditions. For example... If I brake hard at a certain track-side marker, does this simulated car slow at a similar rate in-game that the same real car would on this same real-world track under these same conditions? ...Or: Does the car lose grip at the same point of simulated lateral G's in-game as the real car would under the same real lateral G's? Etc. ...A driving/racing game with very unrealistic physics but good force feedback played on a wheel would still not be very authentic.

I'm all in favor of heightening the fun & immersion for all players at all skill levels on all platforms using a variety of common input devices. I don't understand why anyone would want others to have less fun with a game. The more the merrier. Game "communities" are already divided too much as it is (wheel users vs. pad users, PC vs. console, console vs. console, region vs. region, hardcore vs. casual, fanboys vs. haters, blondes vs. brunettes vs. gingers, etc.), so any special attention exclusive to just one group only alienates more people.


Holy crap, I think we should just agree to disagree  :D

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Operator1 said:

hobbsy777 said:
Please improve this on F1 2016 , otherwise whats the point of all these new career and testing , improving the car  while there is no feel 
While I don't disagree with the FFB request, the vast majority of F1 game purchasers don't play with a wheel. So you're really asking "what's the point of making the game better for most people, who'll never know that one particular bit isn't very good?"
While I understand the use of hand held controllers out of necessity, why on earth would anyone bug the heck out of a developer for more and more realism and then play the game without a wheel and pedals. If what you say is true, no wonder we are seeing more and more arcade like titles.

People have different opinions/perspectives, and I'll undoubtedly get roasted to Hades & back for saying this, but - I've played motorsport games with different wheels & pedals a number of times & I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me over playing with a pad/controller. Quite the opposite, actually...

I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller. I've driven high-performance cars on tarmac race tracks, and it feels like a surreal disconnect highlighting the fake-ness to turn a game wheel without the corresponding physical sensation of strong lateral forces on my body, and to hit the brake pedal in-game without the corresponding physical sensation of forward dive, and to try to find the limit of grip in-game without the corresponding physical sensations of when a car is on the razor edge of its traction, etc.

...Kinda like getting intimate with a blow-up doll: even though it's shaped more like a real human (it's got "arms" & "legs"), the inescapable details of its air-pressure-shaped plastics & its lack of reactions only serve as a stronger distracting reminder that it's not the real thing... Not that I'd know anything about that sort of thing first-hand.  :) 

I am most certainly not saying anything at all against wheel & pedal players, so please don't take this as a shot fired in a flame-war between factions because it's no such thing. I'm only saying that my input device is a conscious & informed choice/preference, not an objective measure of realism or hardcore-ness.

To me, the level of realism of a driving game's physics can only be judged by how accurately the simulated car responds to simulated conditions. For example... If I brake hard at a certain track-side marker, does this simulated car slow at a similar rate in-game that the same real car would on this same real-world track under these same conditions? ...Or: Does the car lose grip at the same point of simulated lateral G's in-game as the real car would under the same real lateral G's? Etc. ...A driving/racing game with very unrealistic physics but good force feedback played on a wheel would still not be very authentic.

I'm all in favor of heightening the fun & immersion for all players at all skill levels on all platforms using a variety of common input devices. I don't understand why anyone would want others to have less fun with a game. The more the merrier. Game "communities" are already divided too much as it is (wheel users vs. pad users, PC vs. console, console vs. console, region vs. region, hardcore vs. casual, fanboys vs. haters, blondes vs. brunettes vs. gingers, etc.), so any special attention exclusive to just one group only alienates more people.


You are retarded to say that using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller.
Remember children! A well though out counter argument always(!) starts with "you are retarded".

The more you know ★

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HarryBrock said:
You are retarded to say that using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller.

Hmmm... I struggled through my retardedness to re-read the words in my post, and I could not find any parts where I said "using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller."

...Though I did manage to locate the parts where I said "I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me" (maybe it does for others, but not for me)  and "I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller" (like how when my arms turn the game wheel left, my body does not feel any G-forces causing me to lean to the right).

Gamers have a wide variety of options to customize their own experience with regards to different hardware setups, input devices, & configuration settings to suit their own personal preferences (some games are even judged harshly for their lack of options)...So I never understood why so many gamers militantly fight over what they feel is the only one acceptable/good way to play a game.





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I agree that driving a game with a wheel and pedal isn't really like the real thing. I drove a formula BMW once on the Nuerburgring so I have a frame of reference here. But a wheel and pedal setup IS more realistic than a game pad. A good wheel and pedal has much higher resolution from left/right or full throttle/no throttle etc. 

try playing a real sim like iRacing with a wheel/pedal vs. a controller. You will see what I mean. You can be much more precise on your input on the wheel. 

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It's kind of like a flight simulator. There are some very good simulators out there, some of them home cockpits that costs in the six figures, but if you want realism you have to go to a multi million $ level D sim.

My point being, you will never get the motion and G force realism without many $, but you can go with the best affordable option and a game pad aint it.

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Operator1 said:

HarryBrock said:
You are retarded to say that using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller.

Hmmm... I struggled through my retardedness to re-read the words in my post, and I could not find any parts where I said "using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller."

...Though I did manage to locate the parts where I said "I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me" (maybe it does for others, but not for me)  and "I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller" (like how when my arms turn the game wheel left, my body does not feel any G-forces causing me to lean to the right).

Gamers have a wide variety of options to customize their own experience with regards to different hardware setups, input devices, & configuration settings to suit their own personal preferences (some games are even judged harshly for their lack of options)...So I never understood why so many gamers militantly fight over what they feel is the only one acceptable/good way to play a game.





You said 'I've played motorsport games with different wheels & pedals a number of times & I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me over playing with a pad/controller. Quite the opposite, actually...'. The 'quite the opposite' implies that the controller is more realistic so you did say that!!! But no you pick everything out what you said, except from those three words words from that first paragraph!!??

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Operator1 said:

HarryBrock said:
You are retarded to say that using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller.

Hmmm... I struggled through my retardedness to re-read the words in my post, and I could not find any parts where I said "using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller."

...Though I did manage to locate the parts where I said "I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me" (maybe it does for others, but not for me)  and "I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller" (like how when my arms turn the game wheel left, my body does not feel any G-forces causing me to lean to the right).

Gamers have a wide variety of options to customize their own experience with regards to different hardware setups, input devices, & configuration settings to suit their own personal preferences (some games are even judged harshly for their lack of options)...So I never understood why so many gamers militantly fight over what they feel is the only one acceptable/good way to play a game.





And also I don't even play with a wheel.

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Operator1 said:

HarryBrock said:
You are retarded to say that using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller.

Hmmm... I struggled through my retardedness to re-read the words in my post, and I could not find any parts where I said "using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller."

...Though I did manage to locate the parts where I said "I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me" (maybe it does for others, but not for me)  and "I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller" (like how when my arms turn the game wheel left, my body does not feel any G-forces causing me to lean to the right).

Gamers have a wide variety of options to customize their own experience with regards to different hardware setups, input devices, & configuration settings to suit their own personal preferences (some games are even judged harshly for their lack of options)...So I never understood why so many gamers militantly fight over what they feel is the only one acceptable/good way to play a game.





You said 'I've played motorsport games with different wheels & pedals a number of times & I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me over playing with a pad/controller. Quite the opposite, actually...'. The 'quite the opposite' implies that the controller is more realistic so you did say that!!! But no you pick everything out what you said, except from those three words words from that first paragraph!!??

Quite the opposite for me. My perceptions. My preferences. Maybe it feels different for others, but that's how it feels to me. You don't have to agree. My personal tastes have no effect on you or anyone else.


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Operator1 said:

Operator1 said:

HarryBrock said:
You are retarded to say that using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller.

Hmmm... I struggled through my retardedness to re-read the words in my post, and I could not find any parts where I said "using the wheel setup is less realistic than using a controller."

...Though I did manage to locate the parts where I said "I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me" (maybe it does for others, but not for me)  and "I don't perceive game physics being physically conveyed much better through a wheel & pedals than through a pad/controller" (like how when my arms turn the game wheel left, my body does not feel any G-forces causing me to lean to the right).

Gamers have a wide variety of options to customize their own experience with regards to different hardware setups, input devices, & configuration settings to suit their own personal preferences (some games are even judged harshly for their lack of options)...So I never understood why so many gamers militantly fight over what they feel is the only one acceptable/good way to play a game.





You said 'I've played motorsport games with different wheels & pedals a number of times & I personally did not feel like it increased any realism for me over playing with a pad/controller. Quite the opposite, actually...'. The 'quite the opposite' implies that the controller is more realistic so you did say that!!! But no you pick everything out what you said, except from those three words words from that first paragraph!!??

Quite the opposite for me. My perceptions. My preferences. Maybe it feels different for others, but that's how it feels to me. You don't have to agree. My personal tastes have no effect on you or anyone else.


Do you use a controller in a car? No you don't, you use a wheel.

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HarryBrock said:
Do you use a controller in a car? No you don't, you use a wheel.

Am I in a real car on a real race track while I'm playing a video game? No.

Do you wear a flame-retardant race suit, driving gloves, racing shoes, a safety-approved helmet, HANS device, & a 5-point harness while playing a video game?


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Operator1 said:

HarryBrock said:
Do you use a controller in a car? No you don't, you use a wheel.

Am I in a real car on a real race track while I'm playing a video game? No.

Do you wear a flame-retardant race suit, driving gloves, racing shoes, a safety-approved helmet, HANS device, & a 5-point harness while playing a video game?


Oh come on. Do you really don't understand what he means or are you just trying to be a wise ass? 

Isn't it clear that if you are in a position like in real life and using the same input device than in real life, it's closer to real life than when sitting on a sofa and using a game controller as input device? 

I agree it doesn't mean that the force feedback feeling is closer to real life on a wheel but at least the position you are in is of course much more "authentic "

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Ronage6 said:
Operator1 said:

HarryBrock said:
Do you use a controller in a car? No you don't, you use a wheel.

Am I in a real car on a real race track while I'm playing a video game? No.

Do you wear a flame-retardant race suit, driving gloves, racing shoes, a safety-approved helmet, HANS device, & a 5-point harness while playing a video game?


Oh come on. Do you really don't understand what he means or are you just trying to be a wise ass? 

Isn't it clear that if you are in a position like in real life and using the same input device than in real life, it's closer to real life than when sitting on a sofa and using a game controller as input device? 

I agree it doesn't mean that the force feedback feeling is closer to real life on a wheel but at least the position you are in is of course much more "authentic "

I understand just fine when people say they prefer to use a wheel when playing racing games.

...And I don't see what's so hard to understand about saying that I prefer a controller/pad.

I don't see it as a "right or wrong" issue or as a "good or bad" issue. It's nothing more than personal preference. Freedom of choice. Games can & do accommodate both.


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I think they did alright with force feed back (on pad), not personally a wheel user but anything more it would be annoying, anything less would take a wheel that feel of realism. I play with the force feedback, that's what has really I feel made me gain a few tenths being able to feel when the cat is going through force feedback and also just about where the edge is. But this is MY view on it people will of course as always disagree.

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Actually I agree with you so no bad feelings here. If you prefer pad it's ok and I wouldn't say it's right or wrong. I even understand if someone thinks that ffb is better on the pad. I wouldn't know because I never tried. 

The only thing which I say is that for me it's a fact that using a wheel and pedal setup comes closer to the real thing. At least in terms of the way you are actually applying directional input to the virtual car. 

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Well, I moved mid season a while back. I think it was while playing 13 or 14 and I used an Xbox controller until I could get my rig re setup and I absolutely hated it. I just couldn't get any feeling of realism at all. My own personal feeling as they say though.

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