Just when you thought it couldn't get any better !

[dynt 0]

this has go to be one of the best bits of sim racing kit i have ever seen.
http://www.pro-sim.co.uk/product/h-pattern-shifter/#tab-description

so have to get one.

[dgeesi0 305]

they chopped off £200 quid already lol. was only a month or two when this was announced.

i can tell you now you will be slower ingame with that but obviously will be more realistic to play.

[Porkhammer 78]

dgeesi0 said:

i can tell you now you will be slower ingame with that but obviously will be more realistic to play.

Why would it be slower? There are real life rally drivers that shifts quicker than scrubs in their homes with their G27 and TH8A shifters. Pretty sure this will feel better and be even faster as well. Hell, I think I'd be quicker with one of these.

But the price... eeeh

[JZStudios 631]

Porkhammer said:

dgeesi0 said:

i can tell you now you will be slower ingame with that but obviously will be more realistic to play.

Why would it be slower? There are real life rally drivers that shifts quicker than scrubs in their homes with their G27 and TH8A shifters. Pretty sure this will feel better and be even faster as well. Hell, I think I'd be quicker with one of these.

But the price... eeeh

Seems like another crazy overpriced product to me. It's cool and all, but my Fanatec clubsport shifter replicates at least my road car pretty well. And that'll switch to SQ in a flash, not an extra $800. I would want a shifter with a vibration motor to buzz when you misshift though, that'd be cool.

[dynt 0]

Forgetting the price for a moment, this isnt replicating the real thing, this is the real thing Quaife have been making gearboxes for eons and still going strong today, by using the whole switching mechanism of a real box you can finally get a genuine feel what its like to have the real mckoy.
Also there are many folks spending this sort of money on pedals which seems to me to be a much bigger rip off as basically its only 1 pedal that needs attention thats brakes.

@JZStudios but my Fanatec clubsport shifter replicates at least my road car pretty well

I think that sums it up a standard box is nothing like a competition box.

[JZStudios 631]

dynt said:

Forgetting the price for a moment, this isnt replicating the real thing, this is the real thing Quaife have been making gearboxes for eons and still going strong today, by using the whole switching mechanism of a real box you can finally get a genuine feel what its like to have the real mckoy.
Also there are many folks spending this sort of money on pedals which seems to me to be a much bigger rip off as basically its only 1 pedal that needs attention thats brakes.

@JZStudios but my Fanatec clubsport shifter replicates at least my road car pretty well

I think that sums it up a standard box is nothing like a competition box.

Probably. Wouldn't honestly know. Realistically, I'd rather buy pedals with a fancy clutch than this. A nice clutch can help you shift faster and smoother, this shifter doesn't look to be any shorter of a throw or anything than my Fanatec, and I don't think an "authentic" feel is going to really help me much there. But as I said before, a vibration motor in the shifter and clutch pedal would be sweet, really let you know if you've got the clutch depressed enough, especially for starts.

[dynt 0]

JZStudios said:

dynt said:

Forgetting the price for a moment, this isnt replicating the real thing, this is the real thing Quaife have been making gearboxes for eons and still going strong today, by using the whole switching mechanism of a real box you can finally get a genuine feel what its like to have the real mckoy.
Also there are many folks spending this sort of money on pedals which seems to me to be a much bigger rip off as basically its only 1 pedal that needs attention thats brakes.

@JZStudios but my Fanatec clubsport shifter replicates at least my road car pretty well

I think that sums it up a standard box is nothing like a competition box.

Probably. Wouldn't honestly know. Realistically, I'd rather buy pedals with a fancy clutch than this. A nice clutch can help you shift faster and smoother, this shifter doesn't look to be any shorter of a throw or anything than my Fanatec, and I don't think an "authentic" feel is going to really help me much there. But as I said before, a vibration motor in the shifter and clutch pedal would be sweet, really let you know if you've got the clutch depressed enough, especially for starts.

most competition car clutches are fairly  basic in feel, most of the early rally cars worked on a basic cable principle, the later ones are hydraulic or fly by wire most expensive pedal sets just use a potentiometer with a heavier spring a mod which can be done on most cheap pedals sets.
 Simvibe offers a pedal vibration option.

[PaloSamo 0]

Potentiometer? What about loadcell?
(Something is too short, dunno what exactly)

[dynt 0]

PaloSamo said:

Potentiometer? What about loadcell?
(Something is too short, dunno what exactly)

We where talking about the clutch a load cell would be useless as there is no travel on the pedal.

[RogerRamjet77 16]

Unless you have cash to burn I think this is massive waste of money for such a small difference in the feel of being "realistic".  Buy a Clubsport Shifter SQ and a set of Clubsport Pedals V3 and put the extra money saved towards a Direct Drive wheel and/or motion sim.  

Unless of course every other component in your rig is already absolute top-end kit and you are most likely already a professional driver anyway - there are many out there sim-racing to keep their hand in so the market for such products exists even if it is small.

[dynt 0]

RogerRamjet77 said:

Unless you have cash to burn I think this is massive waste of money for such a small difference in the feel of being "realistic".  Buy a Clubsport Shifter SQ and a set of Clubsport Pedals V3 and put the extra money saved towards a Direct Drive wheel and/or motion sim.  

Unless of course every other component in your rig is already absolute top-end kit and you are most likely already a professional driver anyway - there are many out there sim-racing to keep their hand in so the market for such products exists even if it is small.

I am not after a argument but its miles away from a small difference, unless you have driven the real thing you wouldn't appreciate this, a set of v3s and a club sport shifter is roughly the same price, i would sooner have this shifter and a nixim brake mod on a set of g27 pedals.Then at least i would have 1 piece of kit that truly replicates the feel of a competition car.

[JZStudios 631]

I agree with Roger. The Fanatec pedal set has a fancy clutch that's supposed to feel more realistic by having a double hinge that gives way past a certain point. That'd be nice to have.

After looking at the mechanics of this shifter, unless they didn't say something, it's not anything that special, minus being able to adjust it. The centering tension is based on a central rod pushing through a cylinder with a v groove cut in it and a spring to provide tension. Maybe instead of a gate it goes into a simulated gear and has a little bit of play, but honestly I massively prefer the gate if that's the case. And after just reviewing the footage again, the V cylinder has an extra addition at the bottom with a bit of a cone to fit into some drilled holes underneath. I honestly can't look at that and understand the price point or why it's so much more "realistic." And then they go talking about real world scenarios and why dog gears and synchromesh are used, but based on the way the shifter seems to work it doesn't really matter. And they continue with something about shifting hard but not shifting until you let off... it has no correlation to any sim I've ever seen, as the shifter doesn't seem to have electronics to allow for that, or a sim that actually does that. I just... I don't get it. I mean, some nice Wilwood pedals would be more realistic as cars do use those and the Fanatec pedals feel a little small to my enormous feet, especially with the inverter, but I'm not seeing any advantage of this over a clubsport for significantly less, other than it's hydraulic.

Have you ever tried a clubsport shifter? They are pretty sweet and I 100% recommend it, definitely well over the TM POS they offer.

[TonyRickard 17]

RogerRamjet77 said:

Unless you have cash to burn I think this is massive waste of money for such a small difference in the feel of being "realistic".  Buy a Clubsport Shifter SQ and a set of Clubsport Pedals V3 and put the extra money saved towards a Direct Drive wheel and/or motion sim. 

Personally I think the current shifters are the weak link in sim racing hardware because the hardware just lets you physically select the gear regardless of whether the software decides if it is a successful shift or not. Having a baulk where you physically can't put the lever in gear controlled by the game's software is absolutely what is needed IMHO.

[dgeesi0 305]

Porkhammer said:

dgeesi0 said:

i can tell you now you will be slower ingame with that but obviously will be more realistic to play.

Why would it be slower? There are real life rally drivers that shifts quicker than scrubs in their homes with their G27 and TH8A shifters. Pretty sure this will feel better and be even faster as well. Hell, I think I'd be quicker with one of these.

But the price... eeeh

it would be slower because its mechanical. it will be stiffer . you can change quicker on your g27 and other logitech wheels.its a better product you will be slower.this is often the case once you use higher end products.they are better overall but you wont be quicker .

tony try a fantec shifter and tell me that :D within a days use your bicep will be like arnolds.that is actually the problem with many top end sim gear stuff its over engineered.while realistic its also often slower than cheaper gear.

why do you want a stiffer gear change ? more effort ? you want the least amount of effort really.so you can do it at speed with least amount of energy wasted.think about modern rally cars why do most have the gearbox they have ? its so the gear change is instant. who needs extra effort ? you want to just push up or down not go round the world. keep it simple its faster.

when you not shifting up and down the gears like a whippets armpit then yes i can see it working or atleast keeping up with cheaper lower mechanical wheels. one reason i would pick the higher end stuff though is for f1 and tarmac. where you will get the extra bit of precision. then again i would be using the paddles anyway :D

[TonyRickard 17]

dgeesi0 said:

tony try a fantec shifter and tell me that :D within a days use your bicep will be like arnolds.that is actually the problem with many top end sim gear stuff its over engineered.while realistic its also often slower than cheaper gear.

By weak link I meant that the software can't control it to prevent the lever moving in to gear rather than effort needed.

Totally agree that realistic mechanical feeling gear shifters will always be slower, you can't really get quicker than pressing a button a few mm from your finger. It is all about immersion rather than speed IMHO when it comes to expensive shifters.

[bogani 756]

The clubsport shifter will make your bicep like Arnolds? Ha, good one dgeesio. If you think it's an effort you should probably get out more ;)
At max tension the h-shifter feels good but it also makes the SQ to get stuck now and then when you shift. Still, I would like even more resistance with the h-shifter.

And yes, you probably won't be faster but being fast isn't the all mighty goal for everyone like you. Some of us enjoy immersion more than WR's. 

[Darhour 3]

that's beaucoup moneh but the mechanical components within it will make swifter it than racing cars' gearboxes...

[dgeesi0 305]

bogani said:

The clubsport shifter will make your bicep like Arnolds? Ha, good one dgeesio. If you think it's an effort you should probably get out more ;)
At max tension the h-shifter feels good but it also makes the SQ to get stuck now and then when you shift. Still, I would like even more resistance with the h-shifter.

And yes, you probably won't be faster but being fast isn't the all mighty goal for everyone like you. Some of us enjoy immersion more than WR's. 

yes i understand being more realistic is good, i just pointed out it also makes you slower.many people upgrade for that very reason to a better wheel . they think by getting a ultra top wheel they will be obviously faster.which isnt the case.you often become slower.thats important to point out.is it not ?

realism is great i cant deny that but.. if you spend thousands only to be slower you do or should maybe think is it worth it ?

as some of you know i been testing out top end gear the weird thing is cheaper wheels in dirt rally will be quicker 99 percent of the time. so if your goal is top times think carefully.

the clubsport shifter is stiff and not ideal for rally. i did say this to fanatec recently and showed eg of how to make it better for rally games ;)

what many dont understand is you dont want something big clunky stiff to shift.you want simple quick light items.just cause its heavy and stiff doesnt make it better !

[dynt 0]

TonyRickard said:

dgeesi0 said:

tony try a fantec shifter and tell me that :D within a days use your bicep will be like arnolds.that is actually the problem with many top end sim gear stuff its over engineered.while realistic its also often slower than cheaper gear.

By weak link I meant that the software can't control it to prevent the lever moving in to gear rather than effort needed.

Totally agree that realistic mechanical feeling gear shifters will always be slower, you can't really get quicker than pressing a button a few mm from your finger. It is all about immersion rather than speed IMHO when it comes to expensive shifters.

It seems to me if the Club sport is the bench mark there needs to be a new benchmark, i have spent the last year trying to achieve the holy grail of being fast as well as having a realistic immersive feel, the vast experience i have had both in real life competition as well as preparation is now  starting to pay off, I have modded every bit of kit i have trying to get it more and more like the real thing, ECCI 7000, latest upgrades, full hydraulic hand bake, perfect pedal hydraulic brake pedal, a modified Dsd shifter, running huge ffb and soft lock settings.
Even thou i have had the ECCI for nearly a year i was predominantly using a t500 set at 540 as every time i went back to ECCI i was slower but the last 3 weeks i have totally stopped using the t500.
There was a thread a few weeks back on the benefit of power shifting, full throttle gear changes which is also possible on straight cut H pattern dog boxes in real life, which i tried and is definitely faster but the feel of the shifter, a modded th8a just made the whole experience feel cheap and nasty, and  I thought then anything that relies on a switch for H pattern was never gonna do the job.
Thats why i was so pleased to see this latest development in Sim boxes. Dont get me wrong the price is a bit salty but it at least replicates the real thing.

And for anyone thinking this guy has money to burn i bought the ecci used for 800 not 3500 its cost price, made my own handbrake, etc etc

As a side note @dgeesi0 is right cheap kit is faster, however fast driving is also about muscle memory and the more precise the equipment you have has at some point got to pay dividends. 

[JZStudios 631]

bogani said:

The clubsport shifter will make your bicep like Arnolds? Ha, good one dgeesio. If you think it's an effort you should probably get out more ;)
At max tension the h-shifter feels good but it also makes the SQ to get stuck now and then when you shift. Still, I would like even more resistance with the h-shifter.

And yes, you probably won't be faster but being fast isn't the all mighty goal for everyone like you. Some of us enjoy immersion more than WR's. 

How hard is it to put your car in gear? It shouldn't need to be forcefully slammed in... I accidentally made a dirty joke...
My shifters set to how it should be, and all the (granted fairly limited) manual cars I've been in have about that same amount of low level force to put in gear.
As to Dgeesi0, I have two things to say, first, my clubsport feels about perfect for the realistic amount of force it takes to get into and out of gear, with a fairly adequate amount of self centering.
Second,

dgeesi0 said:

just cause its heavy and stiff doesnt make it better !

I bet she'd argue otherwise.

As going back to Dynt, theres definitely still a switch in there, seems like the biggest change is the cones that fit into grooves for the selected gears, and honestly I don't see what that helps to improve. And if you're using a TH8A shifter, I'm inclined to agree that it's basically garbage. You all know my history with TM, and I got the TH8A and for the little I messed with it, the clubsport is leaps and bounds better in build quality and not feeling like a cheap piece of crap. The TH8A was okay, but felt nothing like an actual shifter, the clubsport does. Just for reference, to make sure were talking about the same thing, this is the Clubsport shifter, I'm not talking about the cheap Porsche plastic one.

And the picture makes it look small, this thing is Facking huge. It's almost bigger than my wheel.

[TonyRickard 17]

dgeesi0 said:

what many dont understand is you dont want something big clunky stiff to shift.you want simple quick light items.just cause its heavy and stiff doesnt make it better !

It depends what better means. If I want a rally simulation to give me some suspension of disbelief that it is like driving a rally car then the closer it gets the better the simulation.

If I want to be more competitive in the e-sport of sim racing then better means the equipment makes me faster. Where something like the SST lightning shifter was designed to be fast for sim racing but held no claims to feel like a shifter in any car.

I think both are valid aspirations. My personal wish is that the two aims would converge but that gets very difficult when sims have to support a wide array of equipment.

[dynt 0]

JZStudios said:

bogani said:

The clubsport shifter will make your bicep like Arnolds? Ha, good one dgeesio. If you think it's an effort you should probably get out more ;)
At max tension the h-shifter feels good but it also makes the SQ to get stuck now and then when you shift. Still, I would like even more resistance with the h-shifter.

And yes, you probably won't be faster but being fast isn't the all mighty goal for everyone like you. Some of us enjoy immersion more than WR's. 

How hard is it to put your car in gear? It shouldn't need to be forcefully slammed in... I accidentally made a dirty joke...
My shifters set to how it should be, and all the (granted fairly limited) manual cars I've been in have about that same amount of low level force to put in gear.
As to Dgeesi0, I have two things to say, first, my clubsport feels about perfect for the realistic amount of force it takes to get into and out of gear, with a fairly adequate amount of self centering.
Second,

dgeesi0 said:

just cause its heavy and stiff doesnt make it better !

I bet she'd argue otherwise.

As going back to Dynt, theres definitely still a switch in there, seems like the biggest change is the cones that fit into grooves for the selected gears, and honestly I don't see what that helps to improve. And if you're using a TH8A shifter, I'm inclined to agree that it's basically garbage. You all know my history with TM, and I got the TH8A and for the little I messed with it, the clubsport is leaps and bounds better in build quality and not feeling like a cheap piece of crap. The TH8A was okay, but felt nothing like an actual shifter, the clubsport does. Just for reference, to make sure were talking about the same thing, this is the Clubsport shifter, I'm not talking about the cheap Porsche plastic one.

And the picture makes it look small, this thing is Facking huge. It's almost bigger than my wheel.

Well i suppose logic would dictate spending 300 bucks as opposed to spending 1200 would be a sensible step.I have managed to collect 4 sequential shifters so selling a couple and buying a club sport might be a sensible move, but looking down at a box with quaife written on it i suppose generates all sort of nostalgia, but on the basis of spending 1200 bucks on a shifter before the Mrs gets her new kitchen is a tad optimistic, but 300 is manageable. 

As a side note is there anything in between shifter wise better than clubsport ?

[dgeesi0 305]

its regarded as a great shifter . the build quality is epic i had that same one above. the switch on the side you switch to have normal gears upto 7 and reverse and with the switch set as in pic you have sequential.which locks it to just up and down changes.

if you dont like the stick clunk of the gear changes on the side there is a smallish hex/allen key grub screw which you can alter the gear change stiffness.

its a great put together piece of kit but i wouldn't use it for rally games.

it is big ! heavy and with the clamp if you putting it to a desk make sure its a sturdy one :D

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

And this is why I love it once the new release hype dies. People disagreeing with each other but still respecting the others right to an opinion, brilliant.

[bogani 756]

I def recommend the clubsport shifter for rally games if you enjoy the sheer experience of driving. For me, there is nothing better taking the Fiat 131 to Wales, slamming gears in harshly in h-pattern mode.
The greatest thing about it is how fast you switch between H-pattern and SQ. It's a hassle on other shifters if even possible at all.

If you only care about being as fast a possible, don't spend money on 900 degree wheels and pricey shifters. Buy the cheapest plastic things that offers FFB and 180/360 degrees.