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LEGAL but UNFAIR - LEGAL pero INJUSTO


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ESPAÑOL: hola a todos, quisiera comentarles algo que pienso y quisiera conocer sus opiniones al respecto. LOORE si lees este post agradecería mucho que me dieras tu respuesta u opinión.

 Creo que desde el primer momento que Grid Autosport fue anunciado, se lo promociono como un juego mucho mas competitivo que grid 2, volviendo al estilo TOCA. Mas cerca del simulador que el arcade. una vez probado el juego, puedo ver ciertos aspectos del juego que me hacen pensar que CODEMASTERS quizo hacer un juego realmente competitivo, duradero y mas justo que las anteriores versiones en el modo online.
La primera para mencionar, es que los autos estan mejor ubicados en sus categorias, lo cual los hace mas nivelados.
Tenemos la opcion de modificar los reglajes del auto, para ajustarlos a un estilo de conduccion en particular.
Podemos equiparles mejoras a medida que usemos el mismo auto con mas frecuencia, es como si ganara prestigio.
Podemos desactivar las asistencias, y asi aumentar la dificultad de conduccion. como premio obtenemos mejor puntuacion.
Si chocamos los autos, debemos repararlos. Lo cual nos cuesta dinero, y necesitamos dinero para obtener mas autos y asi participar en la mayor cantidad de categorias posibles.
Lo que mencione anteriormente, fuerza a muchos pilotos a conducir mejor si es que quieren avanzar en el juego. Asi es como obtenemos carreras limpias, sin tantos choques y mas serias.
Si entramos en racenet, tenemos la posibilidad de formar una equipo de carreras, y asi competir contra otros para hacer el juego aun mas atractivo.
En Racenet tambien tenemos mejoradas las estadisticas y compraciones con otros pilotos amigos o bien con el promedio de la comunidad de racenet.

Todas estas características demuestran una clara intención de lograr un juego realmente competitivo y dificil de completar.

PERO

Por que correr una carrera de 1 unica vuelta paga lo mismo que una de 2, 3, 4 o 5 vueltas?

Existe gente que corre carreras a una unica vuelta sin parar durante horas y recibe los mismos premios que los que corren a 3, 4, o 5 vueltas en mucho menos tiempo.
De esa manera obtienen muchos XP, lo cual como todos sabemos significa puntos de experiencia. En mi opinion adquieren puntos, pero no experiencia.

No podemos hacer nada contra estas personas, porque no utilizan trucos ni hacks, simplemente el juego les permite hacerlo y toman ventaja de ese fallo.

Eso resulta legal pero injusto para la gran mayoria de las personas que juegan el juego de la manera en que aparentemente deberia ser jugado.
Permitiendo esto, todos los puntos fuertes del juegos no valen nada, cualquier persona puede hacerlo y asi obtener muchos XP y mucho dinero de forma muy facil y rapida accediendo a todos los autos y categorias convirtiendo esto en un GRID 2 con un estilo de conducción un poco mas real y nada mas que eso. Ademas cualquier tipo de puntuacion no tendria sentido, y las estadisticas arrojarian valores irreales.
Por lo tanto, el cocepto de competitividad estaria absolutanmente perdido.

YO PROPONGO QUE LAS CARRERAS A 1 UNICA VUELTA PAGUEN MENOS PUNTOS QUE EL RESTO. DE ESE MODO,  TODOS JUGARIAN GRID AUTOSPORT DE LA MANERA EN QUE SE DEBERIA JUGAR.

Por favor dejen sus comentarios, muchas gracias a todos los usuarios y a CODEMASTERS por el continuo esfuerzo en brindarnos mejores juegos cada vez.

Saludos.

ENGLISH: hi all, would like to mention something I think and would like to know your opinions. If you read this post LOORE grateful you gave me your answer or opinion. 

  I think from the beginning that Grid Autosport was announced, I promote it as a much more competitive game than grid 2, back to TOCA style. Closer to the simulator than the arcade . once tried the game, I can see certain aspects of the game that make me think that CODEMASTERS wanted to make a really competitive, sustainable and fairer game than previous versions in the online game mode. 
The first to mention is that the cars are better placed in their category, making them more even. 
We have the option to change the settings of the car to suit driving style in particular. 
We can equip improvements as we use the same car more often, it's like winning prestige. 
We can turn off the assists, and thus increase the difficulty of driving. as a reward we get better punctuation. 
If we hit the cars, we must repair them. Which costs us money, and we need money to get more cars and thus participate in as many possible categories. 
What previously mentioned, force many drivers to drive better if they want to advance in the game. This is how we get clean runs, without so many crashes and more serious. 
If we enter Racenet, we have the possibility of forming a racing team and compete against others, well to make the game even more attractive. 
In Racenet also have improved the statistics and comparisons with other friends or average pilots at Racenet community. 

All these features show a clear intention to achieve a truly competitive and difficult to complete game. 

BUT 

Why only 1 lap race pays the same as a 2, 3, 4 or 5 laps? 

There are people racing only 1 lap races non-stop for hours and get the same prizes that those who run a 3, 4 or 5 laps race in much less time. 
Thus obtained many XP, which as we all know means experience points. In my opinion they earn points, but no experience. 

We can not do anything against these people because they do not use tricks or hacks, just the game allows them to do so and take advantage of that ruling. 

That is legal but unfair to the vast majority of people who play the game the way it should be played apparently. 
Allowing this, all the strengths of the games are worthless, anyone can do it and get so many XP and lots of money in a very quick and easy way,  access to all the cars and turning this into a category GRID 2 with a more realistic driving style and nothing more than that. Also any type of punctuation would be meaningless, and the statistics would yield unrealistic values​​. 
Therefore, the competitiveness cocept would be absolutly lost. 

I PROPOSE THAT 1 LAP RACES MUST PAY LESS THAN THE REST. THAT WAY, ALL PEOPLE WOULD PLAY GRID AUTOSPORT THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED. 

Please leave your comments, thank you very much to all users and CODEMASTERS by continuous effort in providing us best games ever. 



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I agree with your entire post. I do not think that credits, car xp, or discipline xp should be awarded to anyone playing in Custom Lobbies. But also no damage costs to your car. They are basically friendly games. In lobbies with only one lap settings. Make the tracks themselves have a minimum amount of laps. Before you can gain anything. The longer the race is set at the more rewards are given to the players.

Example #1: 2 laps around Bathurst 20000 car credits to the winner with a full field of cars (no AI).
5 lap race at Bathurst 50000 car credits for 1st with a full field of players (no AI). The more AI the less the payout is.

Example #2: 5 laps on the Indy Oval 20000 car credits with a full field of cars (no AI). The more laps means more credits.Also the xp should work on much the same way.

Or just have Official CM Lobbies that are only setup to race for example ovals. But every discipline is included in these races. With a Championship Cup winner declared at the end of 5 races.

Or drift only CM Lobbies. These lobbies have the same rules as playlists.
These Lobbies could be just like a Custom Cup lobby in the since that a Cup is awarded to the points Champion at the end of 5 races. Then it starts over again. 

Have these types of races rotate in and out on for example Sunday's are Oval days, Monday's are Streets etc.

I am just using examples from what Battlefield does for their games.

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I wrote about that yesterday...
http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/2602/suggestion-scale-money-and-xp-to-race-length#latest
Photonik said:
So far I feel a bit penalized by the way xp and money is distributed. It is always the same base amount, regardless of how long I drive.
I've already read about people complaining about Clans that do 1 lap races to boost their rating. I really don't care about that, BUT as I get better sponsors only with higher levels, it bothers me still.

I like longer races of 5+ laps, but at the moment your system punishes this by giving way less xp and money in comparison to the time I spent racing. So I think scaling cash and xp to the number of laps driven, or even the distance driven (according to 'official' track length) would balance the online mode tremendously.
Everyone could drive what he likes and how long he likes and wouldn't suffer from this disadvantage. A good balance shouldn't let some people getting further with less effort, just because they use the game to their own advantage.
I'd even go further and add a bonus for every additional lap. So 1 Lap 100%, 2 Laps 205%, 3 Laps 310% etc... 'cause really, a longer race is more challenging than only one or two laps.

Of course, to prevent misusing of that, a player has to complete a certain amount of laps, or simply gets paid for every lap begun. Otherwise in this scenario it would be easy to enter a race and only one drives till the end and the rest just gets a smoke.

I'd love to see that in the not too distant future.
Rewarding nothing to custom lobbies, honestly, would be the dumbest change ever. What is wrong about them? I have raced 3 times in Quick Races and that's it, never again. I want to chose for myself, what car I drive (this especially!). AND I want to chose the players I drive with, not being shuffled together randomly. I pretty much only drive touring, more specific CatC. I don't drive SuperTouring, CatA, or CatB. Quick Races take this choice for me.
And though you might see it differently, there's nothing wrong in 'specialising' in one category. Look at the real world. I hardly see any drivers, that drive this, then that, then anything else. Sticking to one thing makes you competitive, driving everything does not. 

In terms of racing, there's no difference between the quick races and custom cups. I don't like complete randomness, so I don't do quick races. Being penalized for that would be completely unfair. Also it would make clans completely useless. What are they for, if I only could enter random events to drive in and not with custom cups with the whole team, in a category, that most of them want to drive in?
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Hello, 

Yes, I completely agree with the statement :" I PROPOSE THAT 1 LAP RACES MUST PAY LESS THAN THE REST. THAT WAY, ALL PEOPLE WOULD PLAY GRID AUTOSPORT THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED. "

I believe this would greatly help our cause..  and It should not be hard to implement it with a small patch or something.

It really has hurt the game somewhat because of people being able to rank up cars and open garage slots much faster :(

Why is it so bad to just Race a normal 3 laps race at minimum?   I mean, if you want to race in circles over and over everyday..
 it would be nice to make players run 3 laps..or 1 lap with severely reduced exp and cash.

I was really hoping this game would be great fun and highly competitive.. It most definitely can be, if people would stop being so concerned with ranking up , and just enjoy the lower tier cars until time has passed and everyone slowly ranks up over the course of the year :)   I think that would be an awesome racing experience, especially for Racing Teams / Clans


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Drift events are not bad made, same as the other category of racing that reminds me on the good old TOCA and DTM games. The driveability is much much different than on GRID2 and I prefering that on GRID Autosport, it seems to for me more realistic that GRID2.
The graphic is nice. I would like it if there would be longer races like not only 3-5 rounds a race maybe 5-9 rounds a race or so. CM could take more realistic in the game like made a pit stop and change your tyre because your tyre are battered, fill up your fuel = more action.

The experince point system is...Well I agree what ''ULTraJoeDeath'' wrote above
''THAT 1 LAP RACES MUST PAY LESS THAN THE REST. THAT WAY, ALL PEOPLE WOULD PLAY GRID AUTOSPORT THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED''

the garage slot thing, I have to spend 100000 money to get a new garage slot with certain of level! I mean no problem, lets play 5Hours of grid Autosport to get first the money and then a new garage slot.


But one good thing
I still didn't lost my save game as I lost it 7 or 8 times on grid 2 :p
well done Codemasters!!!
Rank up!


^:)^
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I fully agree with the statement.
"I PROPOSE THAT 1 LAP RACES MUST PAY LESS THAN THE REST. THAT WAY, ALL PEOPLE WOULD PLAY GRID AUTOSPORT THE WAY IT WAS MEANT TO BE PLAYED."  
It would be nice to even out the competition and actually force drivers who get 1st place on the grid to be challenged.
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I am astounded by the original poster's comments.  Who cares how anyone plays their game as long as it is within the rules set forth by the software publisher.  One lap races were in Grid 2 as well.  Some people enjoy racing short quick events while others prefer to race long events.  The game has been released, and if the original poster doesn't like the way that it is setup, then no one is forcing him or her to play it. 

Also take into account that if you make a mistake in a 1 lap race you do not have much hope of finishing first, while in a 3 lap race you can make the same mistake and still finish first.  So which one really takes more skill to win?

If you want to go into the fairness of the game then I suggest that you look at the club structure.  146 members on one team and 6 members on an other.  If all races were set at 5 laps and Team A had 12 players and Team B had 36 players, and everything being equal(playing time) Team A would not have a chance unless they were going to race 3 times as much as Team B.

It would appear that Codemasters has leveled the playing field by giving AutoSport players the ability to configure custom events however they see fit.

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@TheFinalWord I don't know if you are getting the reason for these one lap races or not. People are using them to boost their xp & cash to higher levels quickly. So they can go to public lobbies and have better cars, etc. As well as earning their club more xp. I also understand what you mean by they are just playing the game within the guidelines set up by CM. You are absolutely right.

@Photonik I am sorry my idea offended you. I understand what you are saying. But I also said to make the longer races should be worth more than a shorter race too. And you are also right that some real-world drivers only race one type of car, at the higher levels of Motorsports. But they all had to race something else before they got to the higher tiers. And the ones that have not made it to the top echelon will drive anything. If they want to get to the top echelon. Sorry again if I upset you.

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@TheFinalWord‌ So would you be happy getting paid 100 dollars for 5 hours of work while someone else got paid the same amount for 1 hour of work? And about your 1 lap/3 lap question, 3 lap races are harder because they require more concentration over a longer period of time. 3 times the corners, 3 times the areas for you to screw up.
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TUSMBOX said:
@TheFinalWord‌ So would you be happy getting paid 100 dollars for 5 hours of work while someone else got paid the same amount for 1 hour of work? And about your 1 lap/3 lap question, 3 lap races are harder because they require more concentration over a longer period of time. 3 times the corners, 3 times the areas for you to screw up.
Amen to this...
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TUSMBOX said:
@TheFinalWord‌ So would you be happy getting paid 100 dollars for 5 hours of work while someone else got paid the same amount for 1 hour of work? And about your 1 lap/3 lap question, 3 lap races are harder because they require more concentration over a longer period of time. 3 times the corners, 3 times the areas for you to screw up

The bigger question here is why does anyone care about this so much?  With all of the things going on in the world, why worry about how a company developed their software?  No one forced anyone to purchase Grid AutoSport.  If someone is unhappy with their purchase then they should try to obtain a refund.


And to your point TUSMBOX, if someone offered you a job that paid $100.00 per hour, and someone else offered you a job that paid $100.00 per day which one would you take?

As far as the time question goes, in any professional sport the clock is always against you when it is shorter.  If you are playing in the NFL and one team has a 10 point lead, is it easier for the other team to come back if there is 3 minutes left in the game or 53 minutes left in it?

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And to your point TUSMBOX, if someone offered you a job that paid $100.00 per hour, and someone else offered you a job that paid $100.00 per day which one would you take?

So do you see the flaw in the current system? It is exactly that. The 1-lappers get paid ~15k per 2 minutes, the 3-lappers get paid 15k for 6 minutes, same for xp. 
Problem is, that these people, that do the 1-lap races, do this to get more everything in shorter time, gaining an advantage over everyone else. And I'm not talking about a better place in some rank system, I talk about content... more cars through more money, more garage space.
This is a game, it should be balanced. If someone wants to invest thrice the time and gets thrice the money, that's perfectly fine. But exactly here the developer should take care, that whatever you do, you should accomplish the same as anyone else, when investing the same amount of time.
Also it's pretty, uhm, ridiculous, to follow your advice and simply return the game if it isn't liked the way it is done. I'm pretty sure, this simply wasn't taken into considerating, if you remember, how little time there was to complete this game. So better try to give const

@Photonik I am sorry my idea offended you. I understand what you are saying. But I also said to make the longer races should be worth more than a shorter race too. And you are also right that some real-world drivers only race one type of car, at the higher levels of Motorsports. But they all had to race something else before they got to the higher tiers. And the ones that have not made it to the top echelon will drive anything if the want to get to the top echelon. Sorry again if I upset you.

No problem, I should apologise, maybe a little hard choice of words from me. I simply didn't agree, as it would make the gap between accomplishments relative to the game mode even bigger.
Sure, on some levels drivers take everything the get, on other levels, they stick to what they have, without striving for bigger engagements.
But again, this is a game, everyone should be able to drive what he likes and nothing else, if he wants to. THAT shouldn't be penalized.

I am astounded by the original poster's comments.  Who cares how anyone plays their game as long as it is within the rules set forth by the software publisher.  One lap races were in Grid 2 as well.  Some people enjoy racing short quick events while others prefer to race long events.  The game has been released, and if the original poster doesn't like the way that it is setup, then no one is forcing him or her to play it. 

Also take into account that if you make a mistake in a 1 lap race you do not have much hope of finishing first, while in a 3 lap race you can make the same mistake and still finish first.  So which one really takes more skill to win?

If you want to go into the fairness of the game then I suggest that you look at the club structure.  146 members on one team and 6 members on an other.  If all races were set at 5 laps and Team A had 12 players and Team B had 36 players, and everything being equal(playing time) Team A would not have a chance unless they were going to race 3 times as much as Team B.

It would appear that Codemasters has leveled the playing field by giving AutoSport players the ability to configure custom events however they see fit.

No one wants 1 lap races gone, simply xp/money balanced relativ to race length. That way nobody could complain about anything. Everyone has the same chances, regardless how he drives. At the moment that is not given. Look at other games. Balancing issuses are fixed most times. So why not complain about it and hope it gets better?

And 1 lappers more challenging than 3-lappers?
For me, 1-lap races are pure luck. Depending on the position you start in, if you get crashed, etc. If a real talent is in the race but starts from the back, chances are good, that you still can win the race with less skills, if you start in the front.
The longer the race, the more good drivers get separated from the 'bad' ones. 1st Laps, especially the 1st couple of corners are always messy and hardly representative for the performance of anyone.
Also I had races against people for 1st position over 3 laps. I was in 2nd all the time as I couldn't get past, BUT I was in his back (without touching) all the time. Finally the pressure was so high, that he did a mistake in the last lap and I took the win. That would hardly happen in Lap 1.

Regarding the teams, yes this might be unfair. BUT there it is only about ranks, numbers, nothing else. I couldn't care less about that. But having a disadvantage in money and (individual) xp (and therefore sponsors, which again give money) is not ok.
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@Photonik I thought that is what I said, maybe I did in my head.... 

But, I have a waaayy more important question for you, than most of the above.
What is in your honest opinion the best Cat C Tourer & why? I currently have the Civic btw.And I like it but I think I should have went with the RWD BMW. 
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I give up.  The game is what it is.  I have bought several games that I thought would be great but after playing them for a short time I was not happy with them so I just stopped playing. 

Everyone has the ability to race as many or as few laps as the game allows, so the word "unfair" is not being used correctly.  If the original poster's game doesn't allow him to race 1 lap and his lowest limit is 3 then it would be unfair.  Seeing how that isn't the case I still don't understand the problem.  The same scoring system existed in Grid 2.  People play games for enjoyment.  If it is more fun to race 5 laps than 1 go do it.  Because the software developer decided that custom events give the same XP and Cash whether it is a 5 lap race or a 1 lap race is just something that people who own the game have to live with. 

Seeing how no one has addressed the issue of the number of racers per team not having a cap as unfair, I don't see the point in continuing this thread any further.

Happy Posting

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