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Take the god damn AI out of RaceNet Challenges!!!

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For races, as opposed to Time Attack, it might be sensible to have qualifying turned on to allow those able to get a head start. If it could then save this qualifying for future runs at the same challenge it would make it less of an imposition.

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Yayy 2seconds of pace an bringing attitude hahaha.    @V8R3L3NTL3SS1‌    I was less then 2 hundreths of 1st ;)   the ai cant even drive the cars or tracks 6 or 7 times they spun out infront ov me throwing away my sick laps!!!!!!!      Isnt the idea behind an online leaderboard to c whos the fastest!!!!!!!!!!    NOT WHOS LUCKIEST WITH BAD AI!!!!!!!!     what does the I stand for again????????   insaneiyerr hahahaha

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> people complaining about AI behavior in both Time Attack and Race RaceNet challenges
> developer decides to bias non-party-fun challenges towards Time Attack

such logic, wow

It gives you what you want no? It lessens the effects of AI in the challenge but still keeps the 'fastest lap' style mechanic?

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I'm not sure you quite understand the Problem Loore. The Challenges that are put forward on Racenet 99% of the time are based on getting across the finish line in the fastest possible time.

It doesn't matter if it's a distance thing, or a timed lap. You have to be the quickest, at the moment the A.I are in the way CONSTANTLY. Each time you start the challenge a fresh, the A.I are spaced out differently on track. We don't have an equal playing field here, the guys who manage to get a clear lap on the challenges are the winners. It's very frustrating when you think you're about to nail the fastest lap in the Cat C touring cars around Brands Hatch, when suddenly the awful A.I decide to block your line and ruin your time.

They either need removing, or placing on a skill level where they can keep up with the players skill level.

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@loore - what the guy above said. 


The AI need to either be removed from the time attack events or their skill/difficulty level upped so that they are more consistent.  Currently they always block and you always find them in the crappest of places, on the racing line.

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I don't even really understand why the AI is there in the Time Trials at all. If they aren't meant to be a factor anyway, why have them there in the first place?

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It's not a true "time attack" when the player is attacked & blocked by AI drivers at any point during the session. It doesn't matter how far apart they might be spaced or what difficulty the AI are set at when the player is very likely to have at least one encounter with an AI driver during the session. Setting the "fastest lap" takes a back seat to dodging AI, which might make sense in a race, but not in a Time Attack.


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Awong124 said:
Also, why should we be required to run 3 laps if we platinum on first lap?  I want an option to stop when we want.
I think it would be better if we got unlimited laps, and when we quit it will register the fastest lap.

Exactly.

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The condition needs scrapping aswell sick ov it costing all my credits for 6 laps :'(   no leaderboards still soon they say where im from in this world soon means at sometime today not in 10 weeks!!!!!!!!    GRID AUTOSPORT:  ONLINE CAPABILITIES:  LEADERBOARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!      An not being able to run a lobby alone while you wait for people to join is killing it for me!!!!!

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Not a bad suggestion Awong124, it gets tiresome going through 2 mins of menu's for a 30s run.

The AI is a bad factor though as the luck of the draw dictates how successful your times will be. Took me about 40 tries to get top 3% last week with the Golf R in the Street category due to the stupid AI messing up at the start. This week's Endurance run on Algarve is even worse with the damn 787B's unable to get through the first corner without a massive pileup and the Ravenwest driver zipping off into the distance. For Racenet leaderboard style races they should ALL be from a controlled situation such as a clean track Time Attack. It's not about racing AI set to medium with less ability to race than a pair of rocks.

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Loore said:
> people complaining about AI behavior in both Time Attack and Race RaceNet challenges
> developer decides to bias non-party-fun challenges towards Time Attack

such logic, wow

It gives you what you want no? It lessens the effects of AI in the challenge but still keeps the 'fastest lap' style mechanic?

We're not racing the AI but the leader boards. The AI is in the way regardless of game mode. Even in time attack it takes less than 1 lap until you have traffic in front of you.

So what we want is the opportunity to drive as fast as we can without mobile obstacles to compete with everyone on the challenge leader boards. This can be done by either increasing AI level, let human player start in pos 1(this would solve it in all game modes and still keep fastest lap mechanic) or ghost the AI. Making most challenges time attack does not solve the problem unless something is done also to the ai

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Loore said:
> people complaining about AI behavior in both Time Attack and Race RaceNet challenges
> developer decides to bias non-party-fun challenges towards Time Attack

such logic, wow

It gives you what you want no? It lessens the effects of AI in the challenge but still keeps the 'fastest lap' style mechanic?

No, it absolutely does not. It is not races with AI, that's the problem, it is the AI in Time Attack. They are too weak. You run into them after half a lap and your laptime is ruined, as you cannot pass them properly. (not 'cause we all suck, but because they go feeled 1st gear in every corner)

Options to solve that problem (more time attack is not a solution to problems IN time attack):

  1. Only ghost AI
  2. much stronger AI (let us increase the difficulty of AI, if wanted)

Either one of these two things will solve the problem and I think nothing else will do. At least I don't have any idea what should.

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Photonik said:
Loore said:
> people complaining about AI behavior in both Time Attack and Race RaceNet challenges
> developer decides to bias non-party-fun challenges towards Time Attack

such logic, wow

It gives you what you want no? It lessens the effects of AI in the challenge but still keeps the 'fastest lap' style mechanic?

No, it absolutely does not. It is not races with AI, that's the problem, it is the AI in Time Attack. They are too weak. You run into them after half a lap and your laptime is ruined, as you cannot pass them properly. (not 'cause we all suck, but because they go feeled 1st gear in every corner)

Options to solve that problem (more time attack is not a solution to problems IN time attack):

  1. Only ghost AI
  2. much stronger AI (let us increase the difficulty of AI, if wanted)

Either one of these two things will solve the problem and I think nothing else will do. At least I don't have any idea what should.

I proposed that in another thread as well, ghosting the AI in time attack would be perfect as it is after all only about time, not some odd type of race. Personally I'd like to have ghosted cars in playlist time attack as well, people differ so much in skill, so some of the better can lose out just because they get more traffic from slower players. It's after all the time that matters in that event. 

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The AI in Time Attack are very poor (set to medium) and they just get in the way all the time. Usually meaning that you won't get a clean lap unless you stop stock still at the start and wait for the gap to increase enough to get two clean laps in after the first gets wasted.

That's not something that should be setup for Racenet Playlists. Leave the Ghost cars in, and remove the AI or make them ghost too. It's pointless otherwise as the main competition is the other players on Racenet, NOT the AI.

With the Race scenarios it's also pointless as the Racenet positions are based off total time. Why? It's a race if you win you win, problem is the AI is so easy to beat that the winning part is removed. Racenet being Time Attack only would make far more sense. However there are two exceptions. Party mode should stay as is, with weird and random combinations, as well as Endurance having proper Endurance Solo racing.

As mentioned before if races are to be kept in, allow the player to start from Pole instead of last. Otherwise it taints the results.

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Loore said:
Just a heads up, but we are making a change where we'll give priority to Time Attack modes in the RaceNet Challenge. This should ensure that your run ins with the AI are kept to an absolute minimum.

There'll still be the odd Race for those that like that sort of thing but overall you should be seeing more Time Attack.
Week 5: Touring - Race / Endurance - Race / Open Wheel - Race / Tuner - Race / Street - Time Attack / Party Mode - Checkpoint. So, yeah, that's happening. The odd four races out of six events.

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Time attack should be on an empty track. Otherwise it's qualifying.  @Loore‌ READ WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING.  Don't want more time attack.  Just get rid of the AI. 

No wonder you guys can't make a game,   

No AI please.   Ok well have some destructo derby.   That's your thought process right?

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Just attempted this weeks open wheel challenge at Spa. To put in numbers:

4/10 times AI cars up ahead wreck each other through Eau Rouge blocking the road,
3/10 times I get side swiped by the car starting next to me in 11th,
2/10 times the AI make it through fast somehow so I couldn't overtake enough,
1/10 times I can get past quickly enough without damaged steering to go for top 1%.

This is more like playing dodgeball and one that is based more on luck than skill. Worst is that 9/10 times I have no fun at all which ruins the whole idea of playing a game.

So yes it's frustrating the way it is now. The only place where I see AI fit is the Party Mode, let us laugh at them how dumb they are like they totaled each other in the first turn in San Francisco in a previous challenge.

Apart from that I'm quickly losing interest in Racenet challenges. I do it just for the money awarded which feels rather like work. Codemasters ruined a feature with one simple change from Grid 2.

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If there is any technical reason why AI must remain present, then put us starting in 1st place or just ghost the AI, as some other guys have said. I guess this would solve it.

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Loore said:
> people complaining about AI behavior in both Time Attack and Race RaceNet challenges
> developer decides to bias non-party-fun challenges towards Time Attack

such logic, wow

It gives you what you want no? It lessens the effects of AI in the challenge but still keeps the 'fastest lap' style mechanic?

Are you for real?   We are on planet Earth, in the Milky way............................where are you, and the CN team?

_________________________________________________________________________________

Thats the problem. 

Time attack - AI on the track - YES


_____________________________________________________________________________________

Here is the solution 

Time attack   -  AI on track???    [NO]

_________________________________________________________________________________


Can you spot the difference?????????????????????????????  


Time attack is a race against the clock.   That means no one on that track other than my own car.  No other cars, AI's or anyone other than me and a ghost I selected. 


Qualifying is done with other cars on the track.   But we are NOT qualifying,  we are TIME ATTACKING,  and we know this because it says so on the screen. 

 

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So imagine, it's about 3am, I'm Time Attacking and out of the blue... will you see it coming?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VlY76adiCc


And a copy/paste from steam forums, because I can whine about racenet bots all day long...


Here's my typical Time Attack: 

1) every first lap is wasted, because we have a rolling start at a speed which is quite slower than possible;

2) if we don't sit at least 20-30 seconds before the last turn of the first already_wasted lap, there's a high chance we'll get bots in the way;

3) bot placement is random for each full restart.

TL DR: first lap + 30 seconds of each attempt is wasted.

I really miss Grid 2 Power Laps, where you have a standing start + only 1 lap and nobody that gets in the way. Checkpoints had no AI as well.

>end of copy/paste


I think the best/easiest solution is to ghost bots in Every. Single. Challenge. Because a challenge should not be luck based!

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Zodh said:

1) every first lap is wasted, because we have a rolling start at a speed which is quite slower than possible;

You should always run a quicker outlap than a rolling start -- get used to it.

2) if we don't sit at least 20-30 seconds before the last turn of the first already_wasted lap, there's a high chance we'll get bots in the way;

You've answered your own arguement -- drop back and hit that stella lap.

3) bot placement is random for each full restart.

It's not random -- the animation sequence of the AI can be very predictable -- it depends how much time you invest in understanding how you start and how that correlates to the AI.

I don't have the answers but mere suggestions.

Good luck in racing.




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Another week where the racenet challenges are ruined by the scripted cars(i refuse to call it AI since there is no intelligence involved).

Why not just let human players start in pos 1 as a quick fix. If you do that the scripted cars wont be a problem in any race event at all.

As said many times before: We are not racing the AI, we are racing the leader boards!

If we want to race the scripted cars we got a whole part of the game called single player to do that.

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DLT222 - That reasoning is absolute bullshit. The whole point of a Time Attack is to go for fastest lap. This results in no time attack but something closer to a Qualifying session for a race. In Time Attack there are no other cars on the track and if there are they are spaced out like Rally with enough gap so participants don't impede another driver. Currently this is not the case and on a lot of laps you catch the AI (because they are so damn slow) on the first lap. Then you'll continue to hit AI each subsequent lap too.

Having to wait (literally stopped) near the end of the first lap for enough of a gap to open to get a run is just wasting player time for no valid reason. The other issue is the AI don't even run the Platinum level times, they run about 10s slower so they will ALWAYS get in the way and be useless if they impede you lap. Changing it from current type of Time Attack to a more appropriate type (IE no AI or AI running Platinum Times) would help solve the issues face, unlike your mostly unhelpful and self-aggrandising comments.

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