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Take the god damn AI out of RaceNet Challenges!!!

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Of course you're not going to do that, but regardless... take the god damn AI out of the Challenges!

Can anyone explain / sketch / refer me to the actual point of having 12 cars on track RACING in a leaderboard-based, fast-lap game mode? Furthermore, can anyone explain the point in making the AI slow-moving walls that lap 10 sec. off the Gold pace, brake 50 meters earlier in every corner, brake-check you in flat-out corners, accelerate slower, go three wide on a narrow-as-**** track, hit the inside barriers and get thrown into anything and anyone trying to pass on the outside on Street tracks or clip each other and collect you in the process? Because the sole purpose of it, as I see it, is to slow you down dramatically for the first 10 corners or inflict damage you have to carry through the rest of the race.

And it's not just that. Even in the Time Attack mode, the AI is ridiculosly slow. Take this week's Touring Cat. C challenge as an example. I had to constantly sacrifice the first lap and STOP (actually stop moving) for about 10-15 sec. on track in order to give myself some space for two clean laps. Otherwise you just have to deal with insanely slow traffic that's inevitably going to ruin each and every of your three laps.

Is there at least some logic in dialing the difficulty level down so much, other than to make any just-bought-the-game-yesterday fella feel fast even though he's ranking 2000+ every week or cater for the GRID 2 first-lap nutters who don't feel at home if they don't complete the Trading Paint achievement race after race?

I don't want to sound like a pretentious prick and believe me, I'm enjoying the game A LOT but this is beyond frustrating, it takes the fun out of an otherwise perfectly decent game mode and it just scrambles with the leaderboards putting the accent on luck and evasive manouvers skill rather than pure speed and technique.

Either keep the damn AI in Career Mode, where it belongs OR increase the difficulty in order to make it pose an actual challenge, rather than act like a massive pain in the *** that lasts half a lap.
 

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I think there is just something a miss with AI, I thought that codemasters got rid of rubberbanding, but I feel this is rubbish, when you're in a single player race, race 2 in touring cars for example and you have to start last. after a laps (depending on difficulty), you manage to get past all the AI drivers, and you leave the Raven West team in the dust, and make yourself a nice big lead, then suddenly, as if out of no-where, Nathan is catching up to you, but you've been doing the fastest laps, but he can't quite catch up enough to overtake you.

Now the issue of online time trials where AI is added, it seems half the AI cars are just driving leisurely around the track, while the other half are actually trying to get good lap times, but now, if you're driving behind an AI car trying to get good laps in, and you get close enough, it suddenly slows down to a halt, but it won't get out of the racing line, so you inevitably plough straight into the back of the AI car.

Now there is the problem with AI cars in general. Sure, you see (in real life), especially in the early stages of the race, cars riding 2 abreast, both drivers give each other room on the race track, yes they touch and scrape, but you cannot do this against AI, they will cut you off, you take the inside line in the apex, they will shove you off the track, you get a penalty for crossing the line, you try going around the outside, they shove you onto the gravel.

I find the AI is just too annoying and frustrating, I don't even see rammers driving this aggressively, and yet we get punished when the AI shoves us around when we're "trying" to get past cleanly. It's now come to a stage that I'll ram the AI drivers out the way before they can ram me.

During online challenges, It is almost impossible to get platinum because the AI is either cock blocking you, or shoving you into oblivion. The AI seems to be on easy, because they don't drive very fast, and you can get past them all easily within one lap if you're lucky enough to get around them, so my suggestion, they should be faster on track to avoid the annoyances of them being in your way, and if you are running abreast with an AI driver, to let them let you drive next to you, yes, if you shove them, then they can shove you, but it's annoying they the AI is instigating the shoving most of the time.

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I completely agree Tony. Last weeks Street challenge with the Hot Hatches was ridiculous! I finally got my Golf to level 50, added the engine upgrade and all the tuning stuff, but alas, I still had to get through the first few corners of AI drivers that think we're all in bumpercars. Maaaayyybe if it was the Touring discipline, I could understand, but Street? Suffice to say that I spent hours trying to find a good line through the AI on the first lap and just gave up because I just couldn't make up the lost time on the 2 other laps. 

All that to say: if the competition is time based in a RaceNet Challenge, make it a Time Attack not a Race.

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Waa Waa Waa ai is in my way . Work out how to get around them. I'm 2seconds off pace for platinum with just a few tries. Sometimes you have to work 4 things. Would u rather no AI and the base times dropped 5 secs or have AI and keep things they way they are? either way you would have to work for it they're not just going to give you a platinum everytime.

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Work out how to get around them. I'm 2 seconds off pace for platinum with just a few tries.
You completely misunderstood my point. I did work out how to get around them and I'm usually 1-2 sec. off the Platinum pace in Endurance, Open Wheel and Tuner (when it applies) and I get Platinum rather easily in Touring or Street. So what's your case or mine have to do with the fact that the AI is not well optimized in terms of difficulty?

The thing is (and here's where you missed my point): I don't care about the crappy medals. I care about an enjoyable racing experience.

How is working your way through slow-as-**** traffic that's gonna block, brake-check and ram you senseless for 1/2 a lap out of 3 racing at all, really?

The current state of the AI in RaceNet is the real-world equivalent of being the only LMP1 car, starting last in a sprint race with a full field of overly-aggressive GTs in front. That's not racing, that's a sure-shot full blown carnage waiting to happen.

If people want the AI to stay, then sure, I'm not in a position to contest that, but you have to at least accept the fact that the difficulty NEEDS to be increased so that they won't act as mobile chicanes.

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Couldnt agree with this post more... Last week Fun Party Challenge, for the love of God! :S
I must've done 50 restarts easily just to get past the first chicane wreckage.

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In my opinion, the point isn't that the AI is there, but that it's inconsistent. Having inconsistent conditions for leaderboard challenges doesn't make sense.

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Awong124 said:
In my opinion, the point isn't that the AI is there, but that it's inconsistent. Having inconsistent conditions for leaderboard challenges doesn't make sense.
Spot on!

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Waa Waa Waa ai is in my way . Work out how to get around them. I'm 2seconds off pace for platinum with just a few tries. Sometimes you have to work 4 things. Would u rather no AI and the base times dropped 5 secs or have AI and keep things they way they are? either way you would have to work for it they're not just going to give you a platinum everytime.
Wat has this to do with 'work for things'? In my case... I get Platinum in the 1st run most of the times. But that's not my goal, it is being in the Top 1%. Not to brag, just cause it's a challenge for me. Problem here... if you have to fight to get past the AI in Time Trial, you lose at least half a second. That means, you can forget that time for sure.
Just to make it clear, getting a nearly perfect lap to compete with the top times, you have to work damn hard. Some may get that after 6 Laps, and so do I with very few challenges. But most of the times you get better from lap to lap and it takes 5-10 tries.
The thing is now, that these perfect laps, in 90% of all cases, are only done, when I stop in the beginning, let the AI get away for 20 seconds and start in the 2nd lap, so I have a clear track.

An AI, that it a rolling chicane in a corner, that you simply cannot pass without losing much time, isn't what I consider 'working hard'. In real racing that is called impeding and is usually penalized. Remember, we're talking about time trial, basically qualifying, not racing.

If we had the possibility to increase the AIs strength, they would be faster and we (the faster ones) wouldn't run into them after 5 corners.

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Awong124 said:
In my opinion, the point isn't that the AI is there, but that it's inconsistent. Having inconsistent conditions for leaderboard challenges doesn't make sense.
Exactly this

Being able to slip stream the AI cars shouldn't be allowed, especially in time attack. Personally I'd do away with them altogether

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Photonik said:
Waa Waa Waa ai is in my way . Work out how to get around them. I'm 2seconds off pace for platinum with just a few tries. Sometimes you have to work 4 things. Would u rather no AI and the base times dropped 5 secs or have AI and keep things they way they are? either way you would have to work for it they're not just going to give you a platinum everytime.
Wat has this to do with 'work for things'? In my case... I get Platinum in the 1st run most of the times. But that's not my goal, it is being in the Top 1%. Not to brag, just cause it's a challenge for me. Problem here... if you have to fight to get past the AI in Time Trial, you lose at least half a second. That means, you can forget that time for sure.
Just to make it clear, getting a nearly perfect lap to compete with the top times, you have to work damn hard. Some may get that after 6 Laps, and so do I with very few challenges. But most of the times you get better from lap to lap and it takes 5-10 tries.
The thing is now, that these perfect laps, in 90% of all cases, are only done, when I stop in the beginning, let the AI get away for 20 seconds and start in the 2nd lap, so I have a clear track.

An AI, that it a rolling chicane in a corner, that you simply cannot pass without losing much time, isn't what I consider 'working hard'. In real racing that is called impeding and is usually penalized. Remember, we're talking about time trial, basically qualifying, not racing.

If we had the possibility to increase the AIs strength, they would be faster and we (the faster ones) wouldn't run into them after 5 corners.
BTW it is to brag if that's your goal is top 1%. I mean it can obviously be done with AI there . Practice practice practice.

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Why is it automatically bragging, if I want to beat the best times on the board and not just some random goal to get a medal?
I have one of the fastest players in grid on the team, so I constantly try to beat him, without success, unfortunately. :D
And again, practise doesn't help. If I am half a second off anothers time and I loose exactly that half second, because an AI driver blocks a corner, I can practise as much as I want, that won't help. Sure, on some tracks you can have luck and pass the AI where it doesn't impede you, or use it in a corner to your advantage, but that is luck and not skill. Most times it is just waiting in the first lap and attack in 2nd and 3rd. That works, but costs time, where I simply do nothing. If i want to do nothing, I play 'sleep' or 'watch a movie'.
Time Trial is about setting the fastest lap of all on a clear track. Otherwise that is called a race.
Imagine you'd be running a timed Marathon and you'd have to wait on street lights to turn green. Would practise help there? No. It's luck, nothing more.

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Also, why should we be required to run 3 laps if we platinum on first lap?  I want an option to stop when we want.
I think it would be better if we got unlimited laps, and when we quit it will register the fastest lap.

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Just a heads up, but we are making a change where we'll give priority to Time Attack modes in the RaceNet Challenge. This should ensure that your run ins with the AI are kept to an absolute minimum.

There'll still be the odd Race for those that like that sort of thing but overall you should be seeing more Time Attack.

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> people complaining about AI behavior in both Time Attack and Race RaceNet challenges
> developer decides to bias non-party-fun challenges towards Time Attack

such logic, wow

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I'd rather have the a.i on very hard tbh. Any chance of you creating a poll thread where we can bounce some ideas around Loore?

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Photonik said:
Waa Waa Waa ai is in my way . Work out how to get around them. I'm 2seconds off pace for platinum with just a few tries. Sometimes you have to work 4 things. Would u rather no AI and the base times dropped 5 secs or have AI and keep things they way they are? either way you would have to work for it they're not just going to give you a platinum everytime.
Wat has this to do with 'work for things'? In my case... I get Platinum in the 1st run most of the times. But that's not my goal, it is being in the Top 1%. Not to brag, just cause it's a challenge for me. Problem here... if you have to fight to get past the AI in Time Trial, you lose at least half a second. That means, you can forget that time for sure.
Just to make it clear, getting a nearly perfect lap to compete with the top times, you have to work damn hard. Some may get that after 6 Laps, and so do I with very few challenges. But most of the times you get better from lap to lap and it takes 5-10 tries.
The thing is now, that these perfect laps, in 90% of all cases, are only done, when I stop in the beginning, let the AI get away for 20 seconds and start in the 2nd lap, so I have a clear track.

An AI, that it a rolling chicane in a corner, that you simply cannot pass without losing much time, isn't what I consider 'working hard'. In real racing that is called impeding and is usually penalized. Remember, we're talking about time trial, basically qualifying, not racing.

If we had the possibility to increase the AIs strength, they would be faster and we (the faster ones) wouldn't run into them after 5 corners.
BTW it is to brag if that's your goal is top 1%. I mean it can obviously be done with AI there . Practice practice practice.
Why do you want the AI to stay as it is? If you can give a good argument for that maybe people will agree. Telling people to drive better isnt and reason. Racenet challenges isnt (at least for me)just about getting a medal but also having your time compared to other drivers. For me the AI is just an element that puts luck into something that should be pure skill based.

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