DiRT Rally 2 - Expectations

[bogani 756]

So, we can all assume the success of  DR will bring us a sequel. It's been heavily implied by the devs, even though not confirmed.

What expectations do we have? What can be done to improve the experience even further?

• This one is obvious, more cars, more stages, more locations. We can safely assume this will be the case.
• Tarmac feel. Loose surfaces feel brilliant but tarmac need some work. For me, it really isn't much of an issue grip wise, but more of a very numb and soft FFB response. The cars never feel as precise and sharp as I would expect them to on a stiff tarmac spec setup.
• Damage model. Surely need an improvement. At least the option of a hardcore damage model.
• Damage repair. I just don't think the percentage model makes much sense. You either need to replace the part costing time, or you risk a complete failure out on stage.
• The sound is awesome in this game, but me wantz moar transmission whine inside the cars. Some are fine but the WRC's could really benefit from an increase. I just love transmission whine ;)
• Saveable replays.
• 1:1 steering animation would be sweet
• Fully fleshed out RX championship. Full event structure online. Would be epic for league racing! Replays of online RX.

These are the most crucial point in my opinion. What's yours?

[SergeyTokarev 7]

DR sequel needs more tracks/cars for each class, hardcore damage mode, better career mode "presentation"/feel.
Deformable surface would be awesome, but I doubt they will implement that.

[shadow118 18]

• Rally PVP, where you can race each other at the same time. Either ghosts or staggered starts (or better yet, both)
• Longer stages
• More car classes. I wouldn't mind having some misc. cars like the Kamaz or the Dallenbach from DiRT2. Old CMR games were also purely about rally, but had some extras (Citroen 2CV, Ford Transit)
• All cars on all tracks (or at leas more cars on more tracks)

[dgeesi0 305]

well im sure we will have a million of these posts for dirt rally 2 before its out but heres my input

i just want the same as dirt rally + the things that wernt upto standard being better

1, . Anticheat for me is the biggest thing that needs changing . the current anticheat if there even is one is pathetic.sorry its true.since early access same cheats are being used.same players are top of table who cheat and we know they cheat.they havent been banned.

that alone has stopped me basically playing now.which is sad as its my fav car game ever.some of you may think i bark on about this but...

i have submitted hundreds of cheat times.submitted most of the places that have the cheats and for what ? nothing.the same cheats are working that launched from day 1.

so Codemasters need to get serious about stopping and banning cheats.if i can find them within 30 secs. they should be able to and ban them.also no two strikes and you out sort something with steam for VAC Bans. this could apply to your other games then also if caught.

2, Mp - modern games need multiplayer. even if you dont want it many others do.dirt rally had basicaclly no mp.rallycross isnt as popular as rally.so please make mp for rally.

3.drivers configs and matching them.i asked about this being added from the start.im glad to see this system is actually in F1 2016. works really well and should be implemented into dirt rall 2. basically in dirt rally you go steam and workshop and subscribe download peoples uploaded configs. now there is a problem with this. if people want to they can upload any garbage to steam workshop. many i have tried have been slower than default.

with what i proposed and its in F1 2016 so please add it. you can just select any player ingame and just copy there set up. see a world record select that guy copy set up and its instant.that is perfect system. its the one they used for the top time there is no confusion or doubt.

also let set ups be changed whenever you want to without restarting.often if you hotlapping you dont want to have to save restart game just to change.as above use system from F1 2016.

4. more graphics options for time of day and lighting. wales for eg is dull whatever. i get why but cant we have sunshine ? or lighter day. no motion blur option also.

5. sound , make a option for no sound. sorry dont say about mixers and messing with sound. the game is the process. it should have a no sound option. why for eg ? many may want music on for eg when driving.

[Dytut 89]

What I expect:

• More stages and cars. This is a given, not much doubt it will be there.
• Upgraded handling model. Think it was Paul that said he'd tried an internal handling model that blew DR out of the water.
• Upgraded damage and repair model
• Better career mode. I expect I slightly updated version of what DR has to offer

What I would love, but don't expect:

• Realistic damage
• Very long stages (Panzerplatte lang, full ouninpohja, and so forth)
• A fully fledged career mode, with both Rally and Rallycross. Start off in a second hand crap car and work yourself up to the WRC factory teams, or become a works team yourself with the right contacts. Manage equipment and logistics costs. 
  The same for rallycross, go from an old Volvo 240 to the WRC supercars.
  Throw in the opportunity to buy historical cars and do historical rallies a few times per season.
• If possible, throw in the possibility to do one or two hillclimb races per season if you can afford a car.
• Much more dynamic surfaces on the roads, and road position making a difference. Make road sweeping, ruts and  dirt on tarmac make a real difference.

[Porkhammer 78]

All I want really is the cars to move properly on tarmac. It's all wrong as it is now.

[bogani 756]

dgeesi0 said:

well im sure we will have a million of these posts for dirt rally 2 before its out but heres my input

i just want the same as dirt rally + the things that wernt upto standard being better

1, . Anticheat for me is the biggest thing that needs changing . the current anticheat if there even is one is pathetic.sorry its true.since early access same cheats are being used.same players are top of table who cheat and we know they cheat.they havent been banned.

that alone has stopped me basically playing now.which is sad as its my fav car game ever.some of you may think i bark on about this but...

i have submitted hundreds of cheat times.submitted most of the places that have the cheats and for what ? nothing.the same cheats are working that launched from day 1.

so Codemasters need to get serious about stopping and banning cheats.if i can find them within 30 secs. they should be able to and ban them.also no two strikes and you out sort something with steam for VAC Bans. this could apply to your other games then also if caught.

2, Mp - modern games need multiplayer. even if you dont want it many others do.dirt rally had basicaclly no mp.rallycross isnt as popular as rally.so please make mp for rally.

3.drivers configs and matching them.i asked about this being added from the start.im glad to see this system is actually in F1 2016. works really well and should be implemented into dirt rall 2. basically in dirt rally you go steam and workshop and subscribe download peoples uploaded configs. now there is a problem with this. if people want to they can upload any garbage to steam workshop. many i have tried have been slower than default.

with what i proposed and its in F1 2016 so please add it. you can just select any player ingame and just copy there set up. see a world record select that guy copy set up and its instant.that is perfect system. its the one they used for the top time there is no confusion or doubt.

also let set ups be changed whenever you want to without restarting.often if you hotlapping you dont want to have to save restart game just to change.as above use system from F1 2016.

4. more graphics options for time of day and lighting. wales for eg is dull whatever. i get why but cant we have sunshine ? or lighter day. no motion blur option also.

5. sound , make a option for no sound. sorry dont say about mixers and messing with sound. the game is the process. it should have a no sound option. why for eg ? many may want music on for eg when driving.

Sadly I get the feeling that the war against cheaters will always be lost on PC. Cheaters finds a way. They always do :/

[SergeyTokarev 7]

bogani said:

Sadly I get the feeling that the war against cheaters will always be lost on PC. Cheaters finds a way. They always do :/

Same on consoles (I'm playing on PS4 now).... not as much as on PC, though, but still there are lots of 'glitch' times.

[dgeesi0 305]

Porkhammer said:

All I want really is the cars to move properly on tarmac. It's all wrong as it is now.

how did i forget this ! +10000000000000

[MartijnvH 12]

Most important thing I would love to see in Dirt Rally 2 is a new carreer mode combined with online mode as i discribed in the threads:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/43/idea-wrc-ultimate-rallyteam-explained

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/6104/game-mode-idea-dirt-ultimate-rallyteam

And also:

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/7121/improvement-itineraries-rally-schedule-service-options

The rally schedule / service option and the Ultimate team idea are in my eyes important if you want to create a game where you want to build on with add ons.

because the difficulty is good, but u need a character / rally team to build on to make the carreermode more challenging and longer.  and more personal ( like setups, gravel and tarmac spec, spare parts , wheels , livery etc etc.

What do yuo guys think?

[ALF 8]

- Some kind of competition with ladders / divisions, where the fastest e.g. 500 players move to a higher tier... or e-sports. A proper anti-cheat is needed for this.

- FFB needs to improve, mainly on Tarmac.

- Ingame telemetry  ( not in a website like atm ) and Wheel rotation, pedals, g-forces and all that, on screen ( similar with DiRT Telemetry Tool mod )

- Ingame Leaderboards ( not in a website ), with all kinds of filters and without the need to run a stage, just to be able to check times

- All settings, no matter which ones, from 1 to 100, and not 0-10-20-30 etc. If i wanna set 53 for something, let me. FOV in degrees and not some percentage or random number. Fov for dash cam as well.

- Showroom to appreciate all the cars details, with photo mode

- Service area with a better presentation ( e.g. able to watch mechanics repairing car )

- After crossing finish line on a stage, let me keep driving ( similar to RBR )

And then, there's the obvious ones... tyre choice, terrain deformation, day-night cycle, longer stages, dynamic weather, etc.

I'm sure there's plenty of more things that i'd like to see in DR 2.

[Busterbvi 4]

OK, here's my "Wish list" ( Not expectations ! ) I'm sure this thread will escalate quickly with all sorts of weird and wonderful requests so lets look at the fundamental basics of what’s wrong with it before pushing for all the fancy bells and whistles. Personally, I don't want any gimmicks at all, I just wan to make sensible suggestions to get the basics right. These comments come from a mature Welshman that enjoyed competing successfully at local club level in the golden years of Rallying in a Mk2 Mexico all over S.Wales.

Escort Mk 2.  Replace the current Frankenstein hybrid offering with a nice and accurate period Boreham or Sutton Group 4 Works RS 1800 with spot on BDA/BDG engine sound ( On Webbers ) A nice appropriate tribute to the most iconic and successful rally giant of all time that is still winning events worldwide today.

Replay's    Current replays are terrible, very arcade. If I have just driven a stage, I really don’t want to see it again from inside the car or the wheel arches ! stage side TV camera style coverage as we had in RBR is what’s needed.  Good close in stuff so you can analyse your driving to see where you are going wrong. Zoom in close with those heli views and eliminate the helicopter engine sound and co-driver voice, replace with the car’s engine sound reverberating loudly off  the forest and hills. Add an option to save a replay so we can proudly post that awesome drive we just did on YouTube or find it later to show your mates, maybe in a separate file ?

User Interface     Make it simple and safe to save your car set up, FFB and controller settings, add a SAVE button on each settings window. We like SAVE buttons, it gives you a warm fuzzy comfy feeling when you hit SAVE ! It’s currently too easy to wipe out all wheel & car settings by hitting ENTER on the keyboard then having to re set everything, soooooo annoying !

Field of View     Currently impossible to get a realistic FOV in any chosen view.  A good FOV should include both front screen pillars in your peripheral vision with the top of the dash, top of the wheel and most of the bonnet. This has been accomplished by a modder on Race Department so shouldn’t be difficult for Codies to do it in house!

Engine Stalling    Too easy to stall engine, needs re-coding to be more forgiving.

Spot Lamps   Give us the option when setting up the car to have spot lamps fitted or not, rally cars look naked without them !

Engine Sound Reverb  When the car goes from the open into the forest, it would be nice to get that loud engine noise reverberation off the trees and hills you get on real rallies (those sounds still haunt me) I have posted some examples on the forum.

Windscreen Sun Strip.  The strip is too wide on most cars and ruins the view.

Weather Options.  I would like to see "Dry and Sunny" added.

Crash Realism.  Needs re-coding so the car doesn't sky rocket and roll 10 times when a wheel strokes a bank.

Confirmations.  If I make a selection, say, RESTART, I don't want to be asked again if  I want to RESTART, if I didn't want to RESTART I wouldn't have clicked it ! Very annoying,  hope this can be removed.

Modders Support.  Allow us to add cars from a 3rd party. Make car sound files and liveries simple to replace. 

So that's my two pence worth. I hope Codies will tidy up the existing game before moving on but I realise it may not be possible with the existing game engine. DiRT Rall2, bring it on !

[tbtstt 2,387]

More rally stages is a given really. Few more things that spring to mind:

- Expanded rallycross content: I think the Championship within DiRT Rally is brilliant, but more circuits would make it even better. I'm not bothered about "short" variations, just more full circuits please!

- Historical rallycross car class (or classes): A subject that has been touched on by a few of us before. At the very least I'd like to see some Group B era cars included but, if it is possible, inclusion of period specification Division 1 and Division 2 cars from the early 90's would be superb to see. 

- Expansion of modern rally car classes: The lack of modern rally machinery was probably my biggest complaint with DiRT 3 and, although I thought that DiRT Rally did a good job of addressing the issue, I would like to see further expansion of the World Rally Car classes. I think it would also be great to see an R5 car class added in: given the R5 class is now the mainstay of a number of national Championships it would be good to see them included. 

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Instead of writing what others said in different words (the anti-cheat is a must though), I'll just add things that haven't been mentioned at all or just partially.

- Proper car names, performance, data in general: as much as the Subaru Quattro S1E22B is fun and all, I'd love for the models to be correct in their naming when coupled with the 3D model AND have accurate performance along with handling characteristics naturally.
- Dynamic weather and time of day: honestly, being stuck to a specific combination of day and weather feels very... archaic. Even Colin McRae Rally 2.0 had dynamic weather ffs (sort of, more like scripted change but you get ma point xD ). I want to drive Pikes Peak at night or not be stuck to rain weather every single time I want to drive in Finland in the morning -_-
- Graphical settings accessible from replay screen: in case it's not self-explanatory for some, you race at lower settings to maintain that smooth framerate, but on replay you want all the blows and whistles and while going for that epic run you often forget to pause the game right before the finish line. Just a quality of life feature.
- Ladder system: I said it before and I'll say it again. Leaderboards are the worst possible thing to implement into any game as a "competitive mode". Ladder system ensures that you can't just hotlap that perfect run and sit on your ass all gooey. Ladder means you have to actually race against others which naturally means maintaining your form/skill etc.
- Ability to access rankings without having to finish a particular stage or even launching the game: If leaderboards weren't bad enough on their own, having to actually finish the stages just to check the times is... wrong in so many ways there's no point even counting. Times should be accessible from the site AND a quick menu option in the game. If fans have been doing this for many games out there, shouldn't be difficult for actual game developers. This is yet another quality of life feature.


I want to also add that the anti-cheat option can't be just "put and forget". It has to be tied with the "Zero Tolerance" policy against cheating. Codies allowed cheaters to roam the leaderboards and they didn't perma ban them instantly. So now they're in a dead spot. This has to be enforced from the beginning or it will inevitably lead to a cheater infested experience regardless of how well the anti-cheat is implemented and how often it is updated. There has to be a moderation group for checking things and perma banning cheaters. Again, zero tolerance policy for cheating is a must to have as cheater free experience as possible. Anti-cheat alone won't suffice in a PC environment, where hackers are capable of breaking through any security there is, even if it will take a long time. And when it comes to games... it doesn't.

Busterbvi said:
Confirmations.  If I make a selection, say, RESTART, I don't want to be asked again if  I want to RESTART, if I didn't want to RESTART I wouldn't have clicked it ! Very annoying,  hope this can be removed.

If they implement this, inb4 thousands of threads asking for the confirmation option because they clicked on RESTART by a mistake. I'm dead serious here.

[Snaky115 18]

DiRT 3 had leaderboards accessible from the main menu, why did not DiRT Rally? -_- 

My lists are.. well, look at Ryu and Tbtstt for what would be my higher priorities.

[RyuMakkuro 6]

Also, would've forgot. Proper change notes. The only people that actually read through the change notes are those that are expecting certain bug fixes. So having notes that don't only list the "cool changes" but actually all of them ALONG with statements about other bugs and where in the fixing process they are should be a must.

Honestly, if it's going to be a list of "cool changes" you may as well not bother with them at all -_-

[enamel 0]

My top items:

1) More stages
2) Longer stages
3) More realistic / higher difficulty car damage model
4) League system improvements, at the very least a way to export event results, ideally a way to run a full championship without having to do all the work outside of Racenet

[SkyRex 417]

Lets also jump in here shall I? 

Features:

-realistic Damage system. No procentual damage accumulation but a more realistic swap part-by-part. No constant accumulation of damage just by driving clean (or idling around not even driving.. I tried it to test the damage). But therefor much more impactful damage when actually impacting something.

-better jump physics. Maybe the cars have to less weight, or downforce or something else, but driving finland is wrong... a lot more airtime than in real life even with the softest and most absorbing suspension.

-better tarmac physics. Doesn't need to be as CPU heavy as in Assetto but a feeling for tarmac like in Forza Motorsport would already be a step to better tarmac feeling. (Gravel/Snow is awesome already) 

-realistic career mode. stick to a car for the whole season, having a lot less service parks (requires realistic damage from above), and maybe add a layer of team management: Having to pay for fuel, tires and teammates and stuff... because why earn money at all otherwise if not using it for managing a rally-team (which is also the entity that buys the cars). (maybe make it optional, and give also the option to just sign a driver-contract at a team and don't have to worry). Maybe even a a scouting-day to rally events: So you have the option to drive any of the stages on that weekend beforehand with an unmodified Subaru Forester. So you can scout out difficult places if you wish to. 

-even longer stages. You can still split them up to the 5km small ones but also give us long ones. You have made ca.20 stage-km per location now. If you have the ressources to double the location-creation time you could go like this: a ca. 30km stage that splits into 3 10km stages, that each split into 2 5km stages. all also in reverse. Plus a 10km stage from that location with a different feeling (like the Vineyards in Germany compared to the Panzerplatte) which again splits into 2 5km stages plus reverse. Which makes 2+6+12+2+4 =26 stages total. Whatever you do, I hope with the new engine you will be able to reuse a lot of the Assets from DR, to save on production cost while bringing us an even bigger track roster.

-all cars on all tracks. Not in career and not even neccesarly in online, but it shouldn't be hard or harmful to include that in custom singleplayer? 

Content  

Locations:
New Zealand
Argentinia
Australia
any proper Gravel+Tarmac location (like spain) (or pick your AUS/NZ stage(s) accordingly)
a tropical-feeling one, with deep mud and stuff. I think Safari Rally might be to big of an undertaking if done right as it one require an enourmusly long stage and lots lots of creation time and so on to totally satisfy the expectations of some. So I would suggest maybe take a look at Rally Ivory Coast?
+ the six ones we currently have (maybe with more stages but definitely with 'stiched' 20km stages where possible (Finland, Monte , etc) 

Cars:
most of the current roster, which hopefully can be licensed again, and assets can hopefully be reused to cut overall cost and shift resources to 'new' stuff without cutting out too much 'already there'
more R4/N/Road car level: I like that class as it represents the 'entry level' for many people into the sport in real life. You could maybe even start there in career. Maybe a 2015 STI ? a Focus RS Mk3 ? Audi RS3 ? Golf R?
R5 class, mainly Skoda fabia R5
early 2000's Mitsubishi Evolution
mid 2000's Subaru Hawkeye

And some advice for codemasters:
if  you can keep most of the car roster: Make it a rule "Location over car" Time invested in a new location will definatly have a higher gamplay/production time ratio than a new car. 

If you can't invest in creating at least 3 hillclimb tracks, just leave it out alltogether and focus on Rally and RX 



That's it, cheers

[SkiddyMcCrash 311]

Tyre Choice.

Adjustable downforce.

More in depth career.

A Bonus Limited Edition DVD of @KickUp and @Hatward turning up at the Toyota Promotional Dept, like Jay and Silent Bob, to beat the Head of the Dept to a bloody pulp with a print out of every single request for DiRT Rally to add Toyotas until he agrees to give them the licence (can't post the video, not without having to ban myself afterwards).

On 2nd thoughts, it should be @justbiglee and @KickUp

Sorry @Hatward but you know it makes sense. We need someone to film it though. You just can't hit him.

Because then it's actual assault, and not a homage.

Which would be wrong.

Totally understandable.

But wrong.

Mixed surface events.

Recordable replays with tv camera angles and selectable co driver audio in all camera angles.

[Etirion 2]

I would also like a bit more balanced Group B, a 1983 Group B class with the ur-quattro, 037, manta and maybe a few others and an 86 Group B with the S4, 205, metro and the winged S1. An interesting addition would also be the option for a no-restart hardcore championship maybe even with a seperate leaderboard.

[pigloaf 236]

Alf72 said:

- Some kind of competition with ladders / divisions, where the fastest e.g. 500 players move to a higher tier... or e-sports. A proper anti-cheat is needed for this.

- Ingame Leaderboards ( not in a website ), with all kinds of filters and without the need to run a stage, just to be able to check times

- Service area with a better presentation ( e.g. able to watch mechanics repairing car )

- After crossing finish line on a stage, let me keep driving ( similar to RBR )

And then, there's the obvious ones... tyre choice, terrain deformation, day-night cycle, longer stages, dynamic weather, etc.

I agree with these.
My top requests:
* Anything that improves immersion in to the Rally atmosphere / experience. More buzz.
* More stages (New Zealand........ that's all)
* Please keep on with keeping it highly focused on Rally - e.g. don't waste time and effort expanding Hill Climb, RX etc. 

Crowd fund this shizz and I'll give you lots and lots of monies. xoxo

[bogani 756]

RyuMakkuro said:

Also, would've forgot. Proper change notes. The only people that actually read through the change notes are those that are expecting certain bug fixes. So having notes that don't only list the "cool changes" but actually all of them ALONG with statements about other bugs and where in the fixing process they are should be a must.

Honestly, if it's going to be a list of "cool changes" you may as well not bother with them at all -_-

This leads me to another one. A  pace note editor would be awesome as there are many places in the game that's questionable. If they could be adjusted to your liking, that would be great.

[ALF 8]

Something i forgot to mention in my previous post...

- Mod Support. Common Codies... Every top Racing Sim already have this

- Rally School or a playground where we can Setup the cars... or just fool around =P

- Mixed Stages ( e.g. Gravel + Tarmac )

And for the Gods sake, do a Hardcore game as a tribute ( or whatever you wanna call it ) to the people who loves the Sport. All the others ( casual players ) will follow. Focus on Rally discipline and leave the Hillclimb, RX, etc, as a side thing to do.

[Busterbvi 4]

Alf72 said:

Something i forgot to mention in my previous post...

- Mod Support. Common Codies... Every top Racing Sim already have this

- Rally School or a playground where we can Setup the cars... or just fool around =P

- Mixed Stages ( e.g. Gravel + Tarmac )

And for the Gods sake, do a Hardcore game as a tribute ( or whatever you wanna call it ) to the people who loves the Sport. All the others ( casual players ) will follow. Focus on Rally discipline and leave the Hillclimb, RX, etc, as a side thing to do.

Definitely need modders support, there are some very talented people out there that can do wonders for DiRT Rally, give us the SDK and let them in so we can tweak the game to our own individual liking.

Also I second Alf72 on Hillclimb and RX, focus on proper Rallying going forward.

[chukonu 476]

- I don't need more cars (except Quattro E2!), I just want more locations and stages. If we could have really long stages I would be very very happy.
- Dynamic ground.. I dont know a better term. Like that game, Spintires.
- Dynamic weather, but only if we have long stages else it's not really worth developing
- Great physics model
- Damage model as it is, isn't too bad graphically speaking but the whole %'s thing is a little bit silly. I don't know, it's not the most important thing in the world but it would be a huge bonus to have a more flashed out damage model.
- No intrusive DRM like Denuvo please

I could think of a million flashy little things I'd also want in the game but they're aren't that important, I'm sure Codemasters have those lists themselves and are able to determine what needs priority.