TOO MUCH advantage for players using TC

[ItsJordyNL 0]

Worntoathread said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Imo they don't have an unfair advantage. I use assists myself and sometimes race online against people without using assists and they're about a second faster then I am. And I'm pretty quick if I say so myself.

I think you can only really compare if you try the difference for yourself instead of comparing with other players. I tried doing a couple of TT laps with traction control on, and I was immediately quicker from the first lap, even though I have good pace without assists, so I'd say it definitely does give you an unfair advantage.  

I also want to explain that I have absolutely no problem with TC being competitive and helping people who don't have the time for a lot of practice, that's what it's for, just as long as it's well balanced for online racing.

True that. But I mostly don't have the time to try and master without TC. I feel like it should be more balanced as well. But the thing that I'm saying is there are super fast people that are not using TC, or any assists at all. I'm on Xbox One and raced against one of the best (TRL Button) and he's unbelievably quick.

[ItsJordyNL 0]

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Worntoathread said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Disagree. Some people don't have that much time to play and master racing without TC. Why need to punish those people so they're slower?

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

Imo they don't have an unfair advantage. I use assists myself and sometimes race online against people without using assists and they're about a second faster then I am. And I'm pretty quick if I say so myself.

If they had assists on, then they'd still beat you regardless so that can't be an argument. 

So, you're saying I'm bad? On F1 2015 I was in top 30 Leaderboards on Australia and on almost all other tracks in top 100 as well. Not bragging, it's a fact.

Not trying to be offensive but if they're a second faster than you, then to them you're bad. A second is a lot of time loss per lap.

I'm saying that you're not as good as them so you can't go and make a statement comparing you and them. 

To them I'm bad but that's pretty obvious isn't it? I'm only talking about a couple of people though. I've become so much better last couple of months. The gap is now way less but still. There are still people faster without using any assists than myself using all assists apart from brake assist ofcourse.

[Woqrr 0]

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Worntoathread said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Disagree. Some people don't have that much time to play and master racing without TC. Why need to punish those people so they're slower?

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

Imo they don't have an unfair advantage. I use assists myself and sometimes race online against people without using assists and they're about a second faster then I am. And I'm pretty quick if I say so myself.

If they had assists on, then they'd still beat you regardless so that can't be an argument. 

So, you're saying I'm bad? On F1 2015 I was in top 30 Leaderboards on Australia and on almost all other tracks in top 100 as well. Not bragging, it's a fact.

Not trying to be offensive but if they're a second faster than you, then to them you're bad. A second is a lot of time loss per lap.

I'm saying that you're not as good as them so you can't go and make a statement comparing you and them. 

To them I'm bad but that's pretty obvious isn't it? I'm only talking about a couple of people though. I've become so much better last couple of months. The gap is now way less but still. There are still people faster without using any assists than myself using all assists apart from brake assist ofcourse.

Would you say that people using brake assist who ar faster than you,  are they better than you  ?

[ItsJordyNL 0]

Woqrr said:

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Worntoathread said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Disagree. Some people don't have that much time to play and master racing without TC. Why need to punish those people so they're slower?

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

Imo they don't have an unfair advantage. I use assists myself and sometimes race online against people without using assists and they're about a second faster then I am. And I'm pretty quick if I say so myself.

If they had assists on, then they'd still beat you regardless so that can't be an argument. 

So, you're saying I'm bad? On F1 2015 I was in top 30 Leaderboards on Australia and on almost all other tracks in top 100 as well. Not bragging, it's a fact.

Not trying to be offensive but if they're a second faster than you, then to them you're bad. A second is a lot of time loss per lap.

I'm saying that you're not as good as them so you can't go and make a statement comparing you and them. 

To them I'm bad but that's pretty obvious isn't it? I'm only talking about a couple of people though. I've become so much better last couple of months. The gap is now way less but still. There are still people faster without using any assists than myself using all assists apart from brake assist ofcourse.

Would you say that people using brake assist who ar faster than you,  are they better than you  ?

Of course. If someone is faster then he is better. Doesn't matter what assists you're using. 

[cheech219360 0]

this seems to be goin offtopic it's about TC not who's faster then who...

[hellbound14 0]

i hate assist users there useless lazy bastards who are too lazy to learn how to play a game properly! These are the guys who are probably still having there nappys changed by mammy

[Woqrr 0]

ItsJordyNL said:

Woqrr said:

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

SentryAlpha said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Worntoathread said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Disagree. Some people don't have that much time to play and master racing without TC. Why need to punish those people so they're slower?

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

Imo they don't have an unfair advantage. I use assists myself and sometimes race online against people without using assists and they're about a second faster then I am. And I'm pretty quick if I say so myself.

If they had assists on, then they'd still beat you regardless so that can't be an argument. 

So, you're saying I'm bad? On F1 2015 I was in top 30 Leaderboards on Australia and on almost all other tracks in top 100 as well. Not bragging, it's a fact.

Not trying to be offensive but if they're a second faster than you, then to them you're bad. A second is a lot of time loss per lap.

I'm saying that you're not as good as them so you can't go and make a statement comparing you and them. 

To them I'm bad but that's pretty obvious isn't it? I'm only talking about a couple of people though. I've become so much better last couple of months. The gap is now way less but still. There are still people faster without using any assists than myself using all assists apart from brake assist ofcourse.

Would you say that people using brake assist who ar faster than you,  are they better than you  ?

Of course. If someone is faster then he is better. Doesn't matter what assists you're using. 

Interesting... do you think then that Ben Johnson was faster and better than Carl Lewis ?

[ItsJordyNL 0]

Lol, I don't even know them. But, we're just talking about a game which should be fun to everyone. To me it's good the way it is. I'm not gonna discuss about this anymore :)

[D4rio 40]

I think this guy here got the real point about all these discussions:

Worntoathread said:

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

[Woqrr 0]

D4rio said:

I think this guy here got the real point about all these discussions:

Worntoathread said:

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

Totally right !!

[hellbound14 0]

Worntoathread said:

ItsJordyNL said:

Disagree. Some people don't have that much time to play and master racing without TC. Why need to punish those people so they're slower?

It's not about 'punishing' people using assists. It's about not giving them an unfair advantage compared to non-assist users.

and clearly this is not the case at the moment because the advantages they have on control pad is overpowed how can a guy state he's using no assist when they have abs traction and steering assist built in 

[Woqrr 0]

OK the question now is if anybody within Codemasters F1 team, will at least answer to this message.

¿are they, or are they not considerning mitigating the great advantage of players with TC? 

a simple YES or NOT would be much appreciated.

thanks !!

[hellbound14 0]

Woqrr said:

OK the question now is if anybody within Codemasters F1 team, will at least answer to this message.

¿are they or ane they not considerning this ?

I really hope they are, awsell as trying to fix the mess they have made with the recent patch common codies YOU CAN DO IT 

[dirt3joe 0]

Traction control is supposed to be there so that people who have lower skill levels / less time to practise can still play the game without spinning out all the time and can enjoy it more rather than getting frustrated.

It's not supposed to be there so that people can use it to gain an advantage and dominate the leaderboards.

If good people can't go faster with traction control off then its wrongly balanced. I can't believe the game designer wanted people to put hours and hours of practice in, remain with traction control on and run faster times than they would with traction control off. The idea is that you practice with traction control on, gain skill, progress to traction control off and through that process you improve your time. 

[SpaceMonkey 0]

Can anyone post some pics of the leaderboards dominated by assists? I don't have access at the moment to live leaderboards on console. Thanks.

[Woqrr 0]

dirt3joe said:

Traction control is supposed to be there so that people who have lower skill levels / less time to practise can still play the game without spinning out all the time and can enjoy it more rather than getting frustrated.

It's not supposed to be there so that people can use it to gain an advantage and dominate the leaderboards.

If good people can't go faster with traction control off then its wrongly balanced. I can't believe the game designer wanted people to put hours and hours of practice in, remain with traction control on and run faster times than they would with traction control off. The idea is that you practice with traction control on, gain skill, progress to traction control off and through that process you improve your time. 

hmmmm OK yes we know ..... that´s the reason of this post.

Question is if Codemasters is also aware of this  ?

[Nagir 0]

I started out playing on a remote for various reasons.
Now when I'm using my wheel I'm nowhere near as fast. So yes. Remote is definitely faster...unfortunatly.

[Woqrr 0]

Nagir said:

I started out playing on a remote for various reasons.
Now when I'm using my wheel I'm nowhere near as fast. So yes. Remote is definitely faster...unfortunatly.

Sorry guy but  we are not arguing if the remote control is faster or not than wheel; although you may have a point there, what we are discussing is that using TC is far away faster than not using it. hope this clarifies.

[Driver74 4]

Thank's for this thread !!!

All guys in my two leagues say the same : It's not ok that the TC have the same speed or more than no TC.
IN RAIN, A NO TC DRIVER HAVE NO CHANCE AGAINST A TC DRIVER . 
We, the no TC driver, need a lot of training to drive
a track fast and perfect. Than come's a TC driver with the half practice time and drive the same time or faster..

[Woqrr 0]

Driver74 said:

Thank's for this thread !!!

All guys in my two leagues say the same : It's not ok that the TC have the same speed or more than no TC.
IN RAIN, A NO TC DRIVER HAVE NO CHANCE AGAINST A TC DRIVER . 
We, the no TC driver, need a lot of training to drive
a track fast and perfect. Than come's a TC driver with the half practice time and drive the same time or faster..

YES YES YES, please CODEMASTERS read this clever post too.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dirt3joe 0]

SpaceMonkey said:

Can anyone post some pics of the leaderboards dominated by assists? I don't have access at the moment to live leaderboards on console. Thanks.

@SpaceMonkey

Well I certainly can't !

As an aside, thinking about how you define it makes my head spin. First you've got the bias that people who are naturally fast are almost certain to start and continue to play the game with tc off, so they may never find out whether they could go faster with tc on. Then you've got the wheel and pad bias. Then you've got the fact that anyone who ends up turning tc off is likely to be better and therefore be able to post faster times than someone who keeps it on. I guess you can only compare it person to person, and see whether the majortiy can improve their time (eventually) on turning it off. The only other thing I can think of doing is looking at the profiles you got on your other games. I assume you get a normal distribution of times on the leaderboard, and the gaps between the peaks in tc on and off might give you some clues as it whether the process is working as designed.

Anecdotally, I would say that for me turning traction control off does not improve my performance as much as I would expect, but maybe in the next few days I will try a more scientific experiment and see whether or not that's 100% true. So far I've spent too much time having fun with tc off to bother turning it on.

[SentryAlpha 0]

TRL Limitless even made a video about how TC was faster and he's mastered TC off. He even proves it in one of his recent videos. When he has multiple world records on TT and he can put a faster time with assists, that's how you know they're faster.

[SpaceMonkey 0]

dirt3joe said:

SpaceMonkey said:

Can anyone post some pics of the leaderboards dominated by assists? I don't have access at the moment to live leaderboards on console. Thanks.

@SpaceMonkey

Well I certainly can't !

As an aside, thinking about how you define it makes my head spin. First you've got the bias that people who are naturally fast are almost certain to start and continue to play the game with tc off, so they may never find out whether they could go faster with tc on. Then you've got the wheel and pad bias. Then you've got the fact that anyone who ends up turning tc off is likely to be better and therefore be able to post faster times than someone who keeps it on. I guess you can only compare it person to person, and see whether the majortiy can improve their time (eventually) on turning it off. The only other thing I can think of doing is looking at the profiles you got on your other games. I assume you get a normal distribution of times on the leaderboard, and the gaps between the peaks in tc on and off might give you some clues as it whether the process is working as designed.

Anecdotally, I would say that for me turning traction control off does not improve my performance as much as I would expect, but maybe in the next few days I will try a more scientific experiment and see whether or not that's 100% true. So far I've spent too much time having fun with tc off to bother turning it on.

True. I'm going on the assumption that the top 100 will do anything to be in the top 100 and therefore will turn on or off anything that will make them faster. With that in mind we should either see assists on at the top of the leaderboard, or off and in theory, generally speaking, it should give us an idea as to whether TC on is really faster than off.

[Woqrr 0]

SpaceMonkey said:

dirt3joe said:

SpaceMonkey said:

Can anyone post some pics of the leaderboards dominated by assists? I don't have access at the moment to live leaderboards on console. Thanks.

@SpaceMonkey

Well I certainly can't !

As an aside, thinking about how you define it makes my head spin. First you've got the bias that people who are naturally fast are almost certain to start and continue to play the game with tc off, so they may never find out whether they could go faster with tc on. Then you've got the wheel and pad bias. Then you've got the fact that anyone who ends up turning tc off is likely to be better and therefore be able to post faster times than someone who keeps it on. I guess you can only compare it person to person, and see whether the majortiy can improve their time (eventually) on turning it off. The only other thing I can think of doing is looking at the profiles you got on your other games. I assume you get a normal distribution of times on the leaderboard, and the gaps between the peaks in tc on and off might give you some clues as it whether the process is working as designed.

Anecdotally, I would say that for me turning traction control off does not improve my performance as much as I would expect, but maybe in the next few days I will try a more scientific experiment and see whether or not that's 100% true. So far I've spent too much time having fun with tc off to bother turning it on.

True. I'm going on the assumption that the top 100 will do anything to be in the top 100 and therefore will turn on or off anything that will make them faster. With that in mind we should either see assists on at the top of the leaderboard, or off and in theory, generally speaking, it should give us an idea as to whether TC on is really faster than off.

I bet you 1 Mill € :-)) that if all the guys with TC on who are listed in the top 100 list, turn TC off, all of them would desappear not only from top 100 list, but also from 1.000 top list in less than 1 day.

[dirt3joe 0]

SpaceMonkey said:

dirt3joe said:

SpaceMonkey said:

Can anyone post some pics of the leaderboards dominated by assists? I don't have access at the moment to live leaderboards on console. Thanks.

@SpaceMonkey

Well I certainly can't !

As an aside, thinking about how you define it makes my head spin. First you've got the bias that people who are naturally fast are almost certain to start and continue to play the game with tc off, so they may never find out whether they could go faster with tc on. Then you've got the wheel and pad bias. Then you've got the fact that anyone who ends up turning tc off is likely to be better and therefore be able to post faster times than someone who keeps it on. I guess you can only compare it person to person, and see whether the majortiy can improve their time (eventually) on turning it off. The only other thing I can think of doing is looking at the profiles you got on your other games. I assume you get a normal distribution of times on the leaderboard, and the gaps between the peaks in tc on and off might give you some clues as it whether the process is working as designed.

Anecdotally, I would say that for me turning traction control off does not improve my performance as much as I would expect, but maybe in the next few days I will try a more scientific experiment and see whether or not that's 100% true. So far I've spent too much time having fun with tc off to bother turning it on.

True. I'm going on the assumption that the top 100 will do anything to be in the top 100 and therefore will turn on or off anything that will make them faster. With that in mind we should either see assists on at the top of the leaderboard, or off and in theory, generally speaking, it should give us an idea as to whether TC on is really faster than off.

Maybe. I think it's worth remembering that there is considerable kudos to running with TC off. Some of the really serious guys see any assists as a big no no. As SentryAlpha points out, there was a vid. I didn't see it but I do remember it being on here somewhere. That guy TRL Limitless is seriously fast on XB1. My guess is that if he is saying something about the effects of traction control its worth listening to. Maybe @SentryAlpha can post a link.