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Codemaster's need to Beta test the games they release.

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With the current issues that have yet to be solved with the Corrupt save files Codemaster's should seriously consider having Beta tests being done by the community. Other major developers do this and so should they as well. This would help with finding these major error's before release of the completed game and make gamer's enjoy the games that they produce. With having been hit with the corrupt file this early after release Codemaster's is bordering on Limited Warranty 90 day since what is been written on the disk is in fact faulty. Depending on how you read the Limited Warranty they will probably say that only the disk is covered and not the data. If that is the case then they are bordering on selling a defective product and with upcoming changes to the laws for digital downloads could in fact find themselves at the end of a lawsuit. IMO that is.

I realize that creating these games is not the easiest thing to do but with a bit more testing by the community it could make everyone happier. 

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I don't see your problem. They are currently beta testing with the community's input, are they not? :D 

Sure, games should be bug free, but that's an illusion in todays complexity of programs. But I agree, that especially CM is repeating bugs and lacking features in their new games. Considering their huge experience and possibly mountains of existing code for some features, that'd only need a bit of polishing, to work (again and properly), it is weak.

But well, I've come to terms with that since GRID. Don't expect a CM-game, that somehow will work simply better than the previous one, but more likely different, not at all, or stupidly.

It seems to me, that they are a bunch of 50 people, that do lots of stuff on their own, but without any supervisor or 'management', that actually asks themselves, if that, what's being done, makes any sense in terms of gameplay. If I as player feel lost in the features, the minute I enter the online-lobby, something's gone horribly wrong. 

There are a thousand (tiny) things that are done without the smallest amount of logic. Muting players only in the lobby; kicking players? I still don't know, how that should work... or is that exclusive to the playlist and not in custom cups? Exiting an event, before it starts, not possible. Entering in spectate mode, not possible. text chat? hahaha! having consecutive infos on players? no! in lobby you can see their stats, during races only steam profile. seeing, that friends are in a custom game? nope. That's just what comes into mind that quick.

And then there's this racenet, with its' clans, that can't be accessed through the game. why is there a friends list, but to see people ingame that is done via steam?! Some features only here, some only there, but nothing complete, that simply shows me everything. That is the worst thing i've ever seen! Game + Steam + Racenet... unbelievable. Like I said, I doubt there's anyone in a high position, that has any sense of intuitive GUIs and accessibility. Someone that stops that whole process and let these different people talk together, to find one path to go.

I predict, that G:A2 (if there'll be one) will have similar issues, a rear view mirror will be patched into the game again, many features won't make much sense, the lobbys will be totally new and different, depending on game mode.

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I've got a theory which might relate to this subject. 

It's in terms of the reviews developers receive for their games, and how they subsequently react for future development. 

Over the years, I've read many reviews from many outlets -- and one thing I always keep asking myself is 'how long has this reviewer played the game?'  

I can only speak for myself....I play on xbox360...I play racing games only...I purchase the game on the day of release.

Very often, the first days play makes me pull my hair out.  But, I continue.  It always gets better.  I attempt to complete the in-game achievements until the game gets boring or some of the achivements are just silly.  Depending on the time of year -- if another racing title is released -- I'll chuck in some stupid-time to get the single-player done to a reasonable level.  My online play is somewhat limited, but if available -- I'll be scouting the hot-lap or time trial leaderboards.   In this case, RaceNet Challenge.

Onto my point.....if a reviewer plays a game for a small amount of time -- there's every possibility the reviewer will chuck out a review which isn't reflective of the game.   Now, typing aloud -- let's say this reviewer is part of a large online entity -- which gets thousands of hits -- perhaps the reviewer doesn't want to 'rock the boat' -- especially when you consider there's a chance title sales will be affected by a favourable review.  Perhaps an in-correct review at that. 

In this situation...there's potential for a knock-on effect -- the developer thinks they are better than they actually are.  They'll keep making the same mistakes over and over.  Progression of a game title or brand might look better due to tweaks or perhaps a new generation of hardware -- but they will continue to get the fundementals wrong. 

On a personal note, one of my biggest gripes has always been the glitching on time trial leaderboards.

It really tests me -- a racing game which has problems delivering correct timing -- it's nothing short of shameful, shody and lack of testing.  Imagine it --- yeah Lewis, great lap, but there was a problem on the timing board -- you're P-22. 

Anyway, perhaps a semi-rant -- but I think called for -- whether its beta testing or reviewing a game -- I feel developers could do a lot more to help themselves create a smoother and more efficent development process.

This installment of Grid is a nice addition, but it's still got that 'Codemasters Old Content Re-Hashed Left-Overs Let's Make Some Cash Because We Need To Release Something' look.  I felt exactly the same with Dirt Showdown -- leftover re-hashing just to release a title.

Codemasters could be so much more. 

DLT222 ----- XBox360 ----- Career Mode & Hot Lapper


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Just becausr a game has an open-beta doesn't mean it will be perfect. I play on the 360 and I beta tested BF4 and the first few months of that game were much worse than this imo. And that is a AAAA title put out by the Almighty EA. Heck with that game you could not even play it because it would just lock up on you within about the 1st 15 minutes of gameplay. Heck even after a patch it still would lock up after 30 minutes of gameplay (better I guess). 

My main point is though that even if there was an open-beta of GAS it may have been what 2 cars and 2 tracks? Well you may have caught some bugs but, you wouldn't get them all. And yes I agree it is very frustrating because I have been playing since day one U.S. release and I have had 2 corrupted save file one at 199 online races & #2 at 177 online races. But I have been playing w/o a hitch for 2 weeks now. But, only because I adapted & bought a 8 dollar usb stick & discovered The Cloud. 

But let's just say the game was beta-tested and there was other problems that were never even addressed within the testing. Then who do we blame ourselves? Nope we blame Codie's because they didn't listen to us. Well how could they if they didn't know there was a problem in the 1st place. 

For a game that is made soup to nuts in one house is a tall order that most people making games now just simply do not do. Especially in what seems to be an ever-shrinking market of racing games. So I dare you to compare this to any other racing game that has been released this year and on 3 different formats. There is one that springs to mind Nascar 14 & boy oh boy if you think this stinks then do not even smell that pile. 

I am no fan-boy by any means but I just do not know that the end all be all would have been a beta test. Thank you, and have a nice day.

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Photonik said:

I don't see your problem. They are currently beta testing with the community's input, are they not? :D

There are different forms of testing when it comes to anything software related. The Alpha testing is behind the scenes testing that is done. Beta tests are obviously after and would include online test like testing how the servers react to online play. Once the Beta tests are complete they have loads of data to work with and will fix them before the game is launched. There was no such testing done for this game that they made aware of to the community. There is a game out in Beta test that only gamers that pre-ordered the game had access to. They have already opened the testing to all the community.

Therefore if Codemaster's is using a release version to Beta test they have it all backwards.

Also if someone does participate in a Beta they don't have to pay to play it and usually get some sort of game add-on once the game is released.

Hope that clears it up. Cheers

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Photonik said:

...Sure, games should be bug free, but that's an illusion in todays complexity of programs...


It's not an impossible illusion. It's just that companies keep lowering their standards while raising costs & customers keep lowering their expectations while paying more as a result. It's a vicious cycle that's easily painted over with flashy marketing & fancy graphics that take full advantage of gamers' short attention spans. 
Companies have no incentive to change when money keeps coming in no matter how poorly they deliver.

The "illusion" that gamers keep buying into is "the next one will be better" - when usually the only "improvements" are superficial (swapped-out content on top of the same game engines, more famous voice actors, bigger marketing budgets, etc.) while core functionality, reliability, security, & originality decline.

The only way to stop it is to stop buying it. But when nearly every company in the industry is doing the same things, gamers would practically have to stop gaming altogether because there are no competing better options to purchase. Refusing to buy from one disreputable game company just means we buy games from other disreputable game companies, because the list of reputable ones keeps shrinking.

...Besides, all the "testing" in the world makes no difference when it's not a priority to actually fix the problems found through testing.

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well if you all are considering projectCARS that game should be perfect with the entire community who put money out to be testing the game for what the last year . So that game should be absolutely perfect with no flaws at launch , highly doubt it but I shall see.

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^ I think ur Sarcasm Reader should have been beta-tested and adjusted too. 

I agree on that. :#

But honestly, in other companys a game in that state might actually still be considered beta. There are some things, that are more than obvious, like the money/repair thingy. And when I read in other threads, that this and that will be changed and therefore 'the balance should be fine', I'm getting pretty furious. I don't really care, if this is 'only' a racing game or a proper mmorpg. If there's Online and Levels involved, it has to be balanced properly, period. But here's the problem, namely CM. They have some great ideas, start with them, but don't finish them properly. In the end they are too busy patching bugs or working on the next game and these issues are never adressed. And instead of implementing that properly in the next game, there they come up with yet another idea, that again wasn't thought through (is that a proper expression? don't know :D ).

They simply should stop trying to reinvent everything in the sequel and instead improve that what's already there. That saves time, gives better quality, less bugs. Who cares how the game is presented? It's a racing game! I want lots of tracks and cars, a good physics engine and besides that proper menus, that give me all the information I need, when I need it. Having a completely different racing lobby in every game proves to me, that this always was a 'quick and dirty' job. Why else would you rebuild it from sratch every time? If something is good, you would keep it. Sure, the design could change, but what and when that should be there, can't change over time, so the data behind it stays.

I'm writing too much. But well, I'm kind of angry, that it's all that fuss with every cm-racing-game.

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DLT222 said:

...Over the years, I've read many reviews from many outlets -- and one thing I always keep asking myself is 'how long has this reviewer played the game?'...


Gaming media reviews are not what many of us would like to think they are. There's no objectivity when the gaming media is so dependent on game publishers. The gaming media gets much of its "news" from so-called "inside sources" at game companies who provide interviews & press releases. The gaming media gets most of its money from the game-related advertisements plastered all over their sites. No "game journalist" can afford to get blacklisted by a big game company due to having given that company bad press.


Ever see any of the biggest gaming media outlets give a bad review of any major triple-A rehashed sequels despite the ever-dwindling originality & ever-growing list of problems in those games? Of course not. Those games come from the biggest game publishers in the industry, and no gaming media outlet wants to bite the biggest hands that feed them most. Any shred of so-called "news" about upcoming triple-A games (or their DLC) drives tons of traffic to the gaming media websites - traffic that gaming media needs to stay viable.


When game companies provide pre-release copies of games to gaming media outlets so they can have reviews ready to publish on or before launch day, there are strict contractual agreements dictating what aspects of the game that the gaming media are & are not permitted to cover in their "reviews" - which is why "reviews" don't ever tell us some of the most important things about games (like whether or not the game actually works).

When making purchasing decisions, don't count on the heavily filtered & biased information provided the biggest gaming media outlets. Look for real information from real customers. Don't rely on cinematic trailers produced by marketers. Look for actual gameplay footage from independent individuals. Don't get caught up in "pre-order" buzz & "launch day" hype. Sit back & wait at least a few days to see what the game actually does when it gets out of the incubator & into the real world.

I did not purchase Grid AutoSport until a week after its launch. Unfortunately, a week was not long enough for its major issues to spread & start becoming publicly noticeable.

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A beta test enables the public to have have vital input, I can't understand how anyone would question that.
Sadly it would seem the general majority opinion is we should be grateful for whatever developers give us.
Some of us believe it should be up to the customer to dictate to the developers what they make, its our money after all.


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RUD3Y said:
Sadly it would seem the general majority opinion is we should be grateful for whatever developers give us...


Yeah, popular opinions like that often come from those with plenty of someone else's money to waste.

Popular opinion also says I should give a crap about Justin Bieber & Kim Kardashian.
 ;)

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I've had no issues with the game, I've had many issues with my NASCAR games. I have seen a game released in this day and time that doesn't need a patch. A lot of that comes from deadlines created by publisher's forcing the Developer to produce the game. Then a few people get a beta, they realize there is an issue and Wha-Lah, you get a Day One patch. That came from Beta testing. Now other issues will arise, though playing as they can't possibly test every Variable of the game that the Public can. Everybody runs different options, controllers, environments and platforms. To test each one would create nearly a million different combinations and variations of the game. For me I'm just happy they communicate with us and working on patching the issues. I get a little frustrated with the AI at times, but other than that I have great fun and love the game. 

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I've had no issues with the game... I have great fun and love the game.


That's great for you, and I hope it continues that way. Those of us who are affected by game-breaking defects would very much like to join you in similar kinds of positive & enjoyable experiences with the game, and we need our voices heard (and acted upon) in order to do so.


...they can't possibly test every Variable of the game that the Public can. Everybody runs different options, controllers, environments and platforms. To test each one would create nearly a million different combinations and variations of the game...


If the scale and/or complexity of their endeavors are too much for them to manage effectively, then they should either dial it back to a level that they can manage effectively, or invest more time & resources into managing it effectively, instead of turning their scope problems into customers' problems with game-breaking defects.

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Just becausr a game has an open-beta doesn't mean it will be perfect. I play on the 360 and I beta tested BF4 and the first few months of that game were much worse than this imo. And that is a AAAA title put out by the Almighty EA. Heck with that game you could not even play it because it would just lock up on you within about the 1st 15 minutes of gameplay. Heck even after a patch it still would lock up after 30 minutes of gameplay (better I guess). 

My main point is though that even if there was an open-beta of GAS it may have been what 2 cars and 2 tracks? Well you may have caught some bugs but, you wouldn't get them all. And yes I agree it is very frustrating because I have been playing since day one U.S. release and I have had 2 corrupted save file one at 199 online races & #2 at 177 online races. But I have been playing w/o a hitch for 2 weeks now. But, only because I adapted & bought a 8 dollar usb stick & discovered The Cloud. 

But let's just say the game was beta-tested and there was other problems that were never even addressed within the testing. Then who do we blame ourselves? Nope we blame Codie's because they didn't listen to us. Well how could they if they didn't know there was a problem in the 1st place. 

For a game that is made soup to nuts in one house is a tall order that most people making games now just simply do not do. Especially in what seems to be an ever-shrinking market of racing games. So I dare you to compare this to any other racing game that has been released this year and on 3 different formats. There is one that springs to mind Nascar 14 & boy oh boy if you think this stinks then do not even smell that pile. 

I am no fan-boy by any means but I just do not know that the end all be all would have been a beta test. Thank you, and have a nice day.


Yeah it's quite possible that the bugs didn't get picked up by CM. My game hasn't shown up any of the problems I've read about that others have suffered from. I'm not saying they aren't there because people wouldn't be complaining of them if they weren't.None of the problems have affected me though even the corrupted save hasn't hit me the game has crashed a couple of times but then most games do that from time to time. Aside from that though Autosport has performed flawlessly for me and I'm pleased that I bought it.

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Operator1 said:
DLT222 said:

...Over the years, I've read many reviews from many outlets -- and one thing I always keep asking myself is 'how long has this reviewer played the game?'...


Gaming media reviews are not what many of us would like to think they are. There's no objectivity when the gaming media is so dependent on game publishers. The gaming media gets much of it's "news" from so-called "inside sources" at game companies who provide interviews & press releases. The gaming media gets most of its money from the game-related advertisements plastered all over their sites. No "game journalist" can afford to get blacklisted by a big game company due to having given that company bad press.


Ever see any of the biggest gaming media outlets give a bad review of any major triple-A rehashed sequels despite the ever-dwindling originality & ever-growing list of problems in those games? Of course not. Those games come from the biggest game publishers in the industry, and no gaming media outlet wants to bite the biggest hands that feed them most. Any shred of so-called "news" about upcoming triple-A games (or their DLC) drives tons of traffic to the gaming media websites - traffic that gaming media needs to stay viable.


When game companies provide pre-release copies of games to gaming media outlets so they can have reviews ready to publish on or before launch day, there are strict contractual agreements dictating what aspects of the game that the gaming media are & are not permitted to cover in their "reviews" - which is why "reviews" don't ever tell us some of the most important things about games (like whether or not the game actually works).

When making purchasing decisions, don't count on the heavily filtered & biased information provided the biggest gaming media outlets. Look for real information from real customers. Don't rely on cinematic trailers produced by marketers. Look for actual gameplay footage from independent individuals. Don't get caught up in "pre-order" buzz & "launch day" hype. Sit back & wait at least a few days to see what the game actually does when it gets out of the incubator & into the real world.

I did not purchase Grid AutoSport until a week after its launch. Unfortunately, a week was not long enough for its major issues to spread & start becoming publicly noticeable.

Great insight to how things currently work.  I'm sure there must be some industry insiders who'd like a change.  Whether it's a coder, animator, sound studio, CGI team or the person who makes the tea each morning -- surely there's a different approach.

If we look at Turn 10, I think it's fair to say their Forza Motorsport series has been a success.  Rather than get into their micro-transaction debacle -- lets have a look at them opening up the franchise to Playground Games in terms of Forza Horizon.   They tried something different -- which in my opinion was a reasonable effort for a first crack at the whip.  With Horizon 2 set to hit late September, it should hopefully build upon the original Horizon.

My point here is to try something different -- open it up to other developers -- perhaps open up a sub-company -- which tries something different -- approaches the development in a different manner.

The hardware developer Razer has a moto of - 'For Gamers by Gamers' -- I can't see why this approach couldn't be tweaked so a developer creates something which reads 'For Racers by Racers'.

Perhaps I'm after a utopian world of racing -- perfection of code.  Much like I want that perfect lap.

It seledom occurs.

Nice responses.

:-)

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DLT222 said:
...I'm sure there must be some industry insiders who'd like a change.  Whether it's a coder, animator, sound studio, CGI team or the person who makes the tea each morning...


Indeed there are, but they rarely have any sufficient executive-level decision-making influence.


DLT222 said:
...If we look at Turn 10, I think it's fair to say their Forza Motorsport series has been a success...


They're no better than many/most other game companies. Being a first-party/in-house developer for a parent company with a history of anti-competitive legal battles, I might guess that some of their "success" could possibly be attributed to monopolistic practices on the platform. They may have had some financial "success," but their games have plenty of major defects that continue to go unaddressed & the company is nearly silent when it comes to customer interaction & patching.

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When toca 2 was released I immediately realized that when racing the winner received more xp than was taken from the loser by considerable amount.  Which meant if someone were to set up a private room and just run 1 lap races at Indy and take turns letting each other win both would go up in xp and within an hour either could be the highest ranked person on xbox.  I posted here to codemasters or to be more precise the old codemasters forums and they never responded.  They couldnt give a shit less so my friend and I did precisely what I told them could be done and in just over an hour of running laps I was the number one person on xbox and he number 2 and up until the day they shut down the servers and online leaderboards we were both miles ahead of everyone and they never once gave a shit even though we were blatantly exploiting the system and even posted about it.

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!!Forza motorsprort 3 had a working demo with omfg leaderboards hahaha.   That demo if I remember right had 4 or 5 boards no glitches! !!!!!      When forza motorsport release a new game if you look around the top 100s you will see gamertags with little turn10 signs :D   I can bet you money now the guys who made this aint playing it!!!!!     Out ov the 50 people who works at CM bet none ov them has ever thrown down a top 50 on any of the most successful racing games!!!!!!!!    An I guarantee none hav ever ran a WR on any game not even f1 stars!!!!!!!    This is what happens when bad gamers make games!!!!!!!         A beta test haha dont make me laff wouldnt you of thought product research was more important! !!!!     If they looked at any of the best racing games around an came up with this feature less mess :D  :blush:   stand grid autosport next to forza 3 an it gets pants down in the school yard bullied!!!!!     Heres the sadest thing :/     stand this game next to the very 1st simulation based racing game gran turismo ps1 the mother of all racers!!!    An this game is shown up in fact CM are shown up 2 fukk:d          more in depth career system, better tuning features,  more balenced levels of play through out the career an licences! !!!!     An heres the final kicker TELEMETRY! !!!!!!      Gran turismo had it on playstation 1hahahaga   an omfg  f1 94 had it also :p    15 years behind the curve these guys they need to rebuild there full company from top to bottom before attempting anymore bad games!!!!!!  I for one will never invest another dime into CM products!!!!!!!!!!    not worth the risk grid 1 :/ grid 2 :( now grid 3 :'(  yeh its grid 3 giv it a different name to freshen it up they should of freshened up the play system in game feel is horrid!!!!!!!!!!     Pgr4 had a better feel an loads more to offer a single player. ..

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kubica4 said:

!!Forza motorsprort 3 had a working demo with omfg leaderboards hahaha.   That demo if I remember right had 4 or 5 boards no glitches! !!!!!      When forza motorsport release a new game if you look around the top 100s you will see gamertags with little turn10 signs :D   I can bet you money now the guys who made this aint playing it!!!!!     Out ov the 50 people who works at CM bet none ov them has ever thrown down a top 50 on any of the most successful racing games!!!!!!!!    An I guarantee none hav ever ran a WR on any game not even f1 stars!!!!!!!    This is what happens when bad gamers make games!!!!!!!         A beta test haha dont make me laff wouldnt you of thought product research was more important! !!!!     If they looked at any of the best racing games around an came up with this feature less mess :D  :blush:   stand grid autosport next to forza 3 an it gets pants down in the school yard bullied!!!!!     Heres the sadest thing :/     stand this game next to the very 1st simulation based racing game gran turismo ps1 the mother of all racers!!!    An this game is shown up in fact CM are shown up 2 fukk:d          more in depth career system, better tuning features,  more balenced levels of play through out the career an licences! !!!!     An heres the final kicker TELEMETRY! !!!!!!      Gran turismo had it on playstation 1hahahaga   an omfg  f1 94 had it also :p    15 years behind the curve these guys they need to rebuild there full company from top to bottom before attempting anymore bad games!!!!!!  I for one will never invest another dime into CM products!!!!!!!!!!    not worth the risk grid 1 :/ grid 2 :( now grid 3 :'(  yeh its grid 3 giv it a different name to freshen it up they should of freshened up the play system in game feel is horrid!!!!!!!!!!     Pgr4 had a better feel an loads more to offer a single player. ..

Go troll Microsoft you forza fanboy.

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kubica4 said:

 Out ov the 50 people who works at CM bet none ov them has ever thrown down a top 50 on any of the most successful racing games!!!!!!!!    An I guarantee none hav ever ran a WR on any game not even f1 stars!!!!!!!    This is what happens when bad gamers make games!!!!!!!


damn straight, about time we had some truth in here. obviously you will be ridiculed and eventually hounded off the site with some sort of violation so i'd just like to be the first to say "well said"


also that line about the telemetry being on ps1 and f1 94 makes me smile, I remember using it :)

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Myth: if a developer releases buggy software it's because they didn't adequately test and were not aware of the bug(s).

Reality: if a developer releases buggy software it's because the management, fully aware of the bugs, decided it was "good enough" to release.

Source: almost twenty years experience in software development.

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kubica4 said:

 Out ov the 50 people who works at CM bet none ov them has ever thrown down a top 50 on any of the most successful racing games!!!!!!!!    An I guarantee none hav ever ran a WR on any game not even f1 stars!!!!!!!    This is what happens when bad gamers make games!!!!!!!


damn straight, about time we had some truth in here. obviously you will be ridiculed and eventually hounded off the site with some sort of violation so i'd just like to be the first to say "well said"


also that line about the telemetry being on ps1 and f1 94 makes me smile, I remember using it :)

Let me be the first to ridicule and or hound you off the site.  Meh.............couldnt bring myself to do it.  Im sure those who test all suck.


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@V8R3L3NTL3SS1‌   all your doing is being a fan boy who wouldnt know a decent game if it bite him on the sack :p    pgr was made by bizarre sony made gran turismo an turn10 made forza not microsoft gimp ;)     an these shit cunts havnt made a good game since toca 2 :D

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