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The Debate/CMV Thread


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Ron666 said:
Alright since the stuff thread is devoted to spilling beer, chilling out, so lemme bring the ongoing topic to where it belongs, here. Topic: Do you think it should be made mandatory to vote ? 
If you make it compulsory, those who weren't intending to vote to begin with will just void their votes. Doesn't make much of a difference.
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We have compulsory voting here. Last election, we had a 93% turnout and only 5.91% informal votes ballots. That isn't to say that 6% of people are politically apathetic because our voting system is much more complicated than putting a tick in one box so I'd guess about 1 or 2 percent of informal votes cast are genuine votes but not filled in correctly. 

Whether people make a conscious decision to spoil or leave their ballot blank is another story in itself and since this debate is strictly about compulsory voting, I'll leave it at that.

By making voting compulsory, you get a very wide range of people voicing their opinions and it better reflects the will of the people. In a voluntary system, because people don't need vote, you'll only be getting the views of a minority of the people which is exacerbated if the vote is being run via first-past-the-post. You can potentially end up with a radical party in power like in Germany in 1933.

Before women were given the right to vote, politicians needed only to satisfy the desires of the people who were actually voting, generally wealthy landowners. Many policies naturally favoured the rich, old men who probably only accounted for maybe 15% of the population and the rest were shafted.

Mildly interesting and slightly related: You can win a US presidential election with only 11 votes total.
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No, I don't think it should be compulsory, but if it was, politicians might have to take notice of the increased number of spoilt papers...

I don't intend on voting at next year's elections in the UK, nor am I voting for the European elections. That's categoric; I didn't bother to register. It has very little effect on me and a good proportion are protest votes for minority parties. Plus MEPs are lazy and aristocratic gits...

Equally, in a country of 60 million and a constituency of 100,000, what difference does a single vote make. 10 years ago it was our district that was 5th closest, but that was still a 300 vote margin. last time it was a landslide 70% for the liberal party. Does my vote really make a difference?
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I have divided opinion here. Earlier I used to think that being a citizen it's my duty to work towards the welfare for my country and in order to achieve that, I must vote because I have the choice to do what's right i.e who gets to lead my country. But after hearing what Fez had to say, I think he is somewhat correct that those who have no interest in politics, they should have free will not to vote because even if they want to, they are likely to be voting for the wrong guy since they don't have any idea about politics. Having said that, I think they have no right speak of their country's problems and how to solve them. Either they enter the "war" and do their duties or they rather stay out of it. Either way, I think people have a choice. BTW, I am not saying anything against no voters.
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My first vote will likely be the independence vote ...





What will you choose?
(I think I accidently pressed off topic on one of your posts in the Football thread btw)

And my opinion on voting: I think that if you vote, you have a right to complain about the government, if you don't vote, then you cannot sit there and complain about it because you made no attempt to change the outcome. Should you have to vote? No, but I can't see why you wouldn't. 

I wont be able to vote this time around (2015) but depending on when the EU vote is, that could be my first one. 
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You say it's inconsequential to not vote, but look, you have a BNP representative in the EU Parliament.
No, I don't think it should be compulsory, but if it was, politicians might have to take notice of the increased number of spoilt papers...

I don't intend on voting at next year's elections in the UK, nor am I voting for the European elections. That's categoric; I didn't bother to register. It has very little effect on me and a good proportion are protest votes for minority parties. Plus MEPs are lazy and aristocratic gits...

Equally, in a country of 60 million and a constituency of 100,000, what difference does a single vote make. 10 years ago it was our district that was 5th closest, but that was still a 300 vote margin. last time it was a landslide 70% for the liberal party. Does my vote really make a difference?
Last year, Clive Palmer won a seat in Parliament by 53 votes. Before the recount, he had won it by 7. 53 people that day could have decided that they didn't want to vote for their various reasons, meaning we could have a vastly different composition to Parliament.
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AMS97KRR said:
My first vote will likely be the independence vote ...

What will you choose?
(I think I accidently pressed off topic on one of your posts in the Football thread btw)

And my opinion on voting: I think that if you vote, you have a right to complain about the government, if you don't vote, then you cannot sit there and complain about it because you made no attempt to change the outcome. Should you have to vote? No, but I can't see why you wouldn't. 

I wont be able to vote this time around (2015) but depending on when the EU vote is, that could be my first one. 


Not sure, probably yes
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You say it's inconsequential to not vote, but look, you have a BNP representative in the EU Parliament.
No, I don't think it should be compulsory, but if it was, politicians might have to take notice of the increased number of spoilt papers...

I don't intend on voting at next year's elections in the UK, nor am I voting for the European elections. That's categoric; I didn't bother to register. It has very little effect on me and a good proportion are protest votes for minority parties. Plus MEPs are lazy and aristocratic gits...

Equally, in a country of 60 million and a constituency of 100,000, what difference does a single vote make. 10 years ago it was our district that was 5th closest, but that was still a 300 vote margin. last time it was a landslide 70% for the liberal party. Does my vote really make a difference?
Last year, Clive Palmer won a seat in Parliament by 53 votes. Before the recount, he had won it by 7. 53 people that day could have decided that they didn't want to vote for their various reasons, meaning we could have a vastly different composition to Parliament.
'Nuff said.

Also, "vastly different composition to Parliament"; 1 seat in 150 to a minority party. Absolutely changed the parliamentary composition, there... <./sarcasm>


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Tbh tommig, it's not really fair to say that your vote is 1 out of 60 million and hence doesn't count. No one should have that mentality because if everyone did, then democracy wouldn't work. It isn't right to have an indifferent mentality and hope that everyone else cares enough to make the right decision. That's selfish, no matter whether the effect ends up being seen.
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It's more than you think. Clive's a bit of a nutter and will hold the balance of power in the Senate come July. He'll do anything in his power to disrupt proceedings.

Whether you like it or not, accept it or not, politics pretty much runs your life. The government takes a percentage of your paycheck and makes you pay more at the checkout. Don't you want a say in where your money is distributed? For all you know, he could be siphoning it into his Swiss bank account. Compulsory voting keeps politicians accountable to the 95% of the population, otherwise, politicians need only appease the 60% that bother to turn up.

All I'm saying is that you have a right to vote. Why you choose not to exercise that baffles me.

I'm sure someone from Zimbabwe or the like would have plenty to say about that.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Coye+voting+like+paying+taxes+should+mandatory/9839655/story.html
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The European elections, as far as I'm aware, have no effect one me, definitely not in the next cycle. I don't even know what the last thing they did that had any effect on me. Nor do I know who any off the people I'm voting for are or what they intend to do. I really couldn't care less either.

Next year's general election don't bother me either, at least not yet. Of the 4 parties in the limelight, 2 aren't likely to win 10 seats between them. Therefore it's a 2 horse race. Neither of the party leaders are particularly clued up with the mind-set of voters, more concerned with themselves and their front bench friends. I don't want to vote for either. The only way I will vote, is to get the current Education Secretary out of power before he ruins my younger sister's and my potential children's future. He could do serious long term damage.

The country is such a state economically that both of the potential winners will make the same decisions but for different motives, and in doing so completely miss the point. Under the current government, both my parents have taken pay cuts (both public sector payed) and are working more hours. Do I think it would be any different had a different party been in? No, I really don't.

On a local scale, whilst our current MP is a good politician and actually gives a f***, the party leader is a complete idiot and in voting for one, I vote for the other. No thanks.

EDIT: Tbf, I wouldn't mind voting for the Green Party, except they aren't available to me...
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