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Rules Regarding "Off Track Excursions".

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Hi...new here. I just watched the start of the Mexican race and have a question about that first turn episode of Hamilton's.  He went off track, through the grass, while leading, cut the corner and came out in first place. Why was he allowed to do that without a penalty ? I know he didn't "improve" his position but he took the shortest route and got an unfair advantage. For the past few years, all I watch now, is the start because it seems that if the first 1/2 dozen cars that top qualifying make it through that first turn, then that's pretty much where they will finish, in most of the races. Very boring to sit through for 2 hours.....hell, they don't even fuel the cars anymore.  If I want to see really good open wheel racing now, I watch Indy Car because at least they pass, have numerous lead changes and swap paint, now & again. Appreciate it if anyone has an explanation because i'm too lazy to download the rule book. Thanks. 

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He didn't gain an advantage. Plus, the VSC and SC put Rosberg back with him anyway. Another reason is that Rosberg cut T2 also, so surely he would have to be penalised as well if they were to give Hamilton a penalty.

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Yeah...thanks...it still sucks, though because he was off course and the cars behind him had to stay on the racing surface. I think he should have went to the back of the pack for doing it. That would mean that everyone could go "off track" at that corner, intentionally and gain an advantage, right ?  Basically, he "cut the corner" and managed to stay out in front....that blows. Have a nice day...( who won, btw...I can't watch a complete race....lol ) 

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Hi...new here. I just watched the start of the Mexican race and have a question about that first turn episode of Hamilton's.  He went off track, through the grass, while leading, cut the corner and came out in first place. Why was he allowed to do that without a penalty ? I know he didn't "improve" his position but he took the shortest route and got an unfair advantage. For the past few years, all I watch now, is the start because it seems that if the first 1/2 dozen cars that top qualifying make it through that first turn, then that's pretty much where they will finish, in most of the races. Very boring to sit through for 2 hours.....hell, they don't even fuel the cars anymore.  If I want to see really good open wheel racing now, I watch Indy Car because at least they pass, have numerous lead changes and swap paint, now & again. Appreciate it if anyone has an explanation because i'm too lazy to download the rule book. Thanks. 
how can you say that was boring? the Ferrari red bull battle, the force India and williams battle all race. The mclaren renault battle all race.  The seasons points position order was battling in the race position order. Not just only watching who in first place is but each place in the top 10 is what F1 is all about and what makes it different from indy. 

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Yeah...thanks...it still sucks, though because he was off course and the cars behind him had to stay on the racing surface. I think he should have went to the back of the pack for doing it. That would mean that everyone could go "off track" at that corner, intentionally and gain an advantage, right ?  Basically, he "cut the corner" and managed to stay out in front....that blows. Have a nice day...( who won, btw...I can't watch a complete race....lol ) 
no it does not mean everyone else would want to cross over the grass dragging the undertray of a F1 car because hamilton did it. In fact it would make them want to do the exact opposite of not going thur the grass.

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Bloomie01 said:
He didn't gain an advantage. Plus, the VSC and SC put Rosberg back with him anyway. Another reason is that Rosberg cut T2 also, so surely he would have to be penalised as well if they were to give Hamilton a penalty.
He certainly did gain an advantage, as his route was faster than sticking to the track, regardless of what the cars behind him were doing.

And yes, Rosberg probably deserved a penalty too.

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Bloomie01 said:
He didn't gain an advantage. Plus, the VSC and SC put Rosberg back with him anyway. Another reason is that Rosberg cut T2 also, so surely he would have to be penalised as well if they were to give Hamilton a penalty.
He certainly did gain an advantage, as his route was faster than sticking to the track, regardless of what the cars behind him were doing.

And yes, Rosberg probably deserved a penalty too.
Rewatching it I agree with you, he did gain an advantage. Anyone saying he deserved a penalty needs to realise that Rosberg would've as well. 

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Hamilton said his brakes had glazed up, so they were not working as they should. so he couldn't brake and he chose the safe way out.

Suppose this would have happened to someone in the midfield, like Massa or Sainz? They's have mass-crashed into the top flight, and gotten a race suspension like Grosjean had in Belgium a few years back :)

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Hamilton backed off before the VSC came out. I agree that he clearly gained an advantage and probably should have backed off sooner. He probably didn't get a penalty because the stewards saw that he came off the accelerator but who knows the drivers may have got the VSC message before we were told. 

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Hoping they make sufficient changes to that corner before next years race. Multi cars cut that corner, none of them lost enough speed in the process to lose a place to a car directly behind them due to the shape of the corner and all should have been penalized. 
Put in some sausage curbs or a set of required drive through barriers. Something to provoke some caution cause they were all going into it way too hot and confident. 

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Agreed nothing to do with the game.

But.....

Hamilton made a mistake/brake lock up and couldn't make 1st corner.  he was already on a clear lead and slowed so as to cancel out any advantage gained. 

Rosberg however was battling for 2nd, ran wide and Max held his line. Rosberg on the kerbs slowed and max took 2nd place.

At this point Max is now 2nd and taking the corner.

Rosberg chooses NOT to rejoin track and turns to cut corner and therefore overtake max whilst cutting the corner.

Why wasn't he penalised for that ? 

He unfairly gained 2nd place.  Max didn't barge Nico off - Max just held his  line....

Nico gained a position by cutting the corner and nothing was said? ??

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Wow...I started a firestorm here....(to Kevin kirk)...i'll stand by my opinions regarding the boredom watching today's F1 races. They ARE boring....like I said, the first few cars that make it through turn one without wiping out, usually finish  in that order. It's ok if if's your horse leading but supremely un-entertaining to watch the last 15 or so cars, doing "laps" for over an hour and a half...or am i wrong ? You want to see real action, watch Indy Car or even Nascar. Have a nice day....( and Hamilton or anyone else who does that, should be penalized. )

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. It's ok if if's your horse leading but supremely un-entertaining to watch the last 15 or so cars, doing "laps" for over an hour and a half...or am i wrong ?  
I don't think you understand what is happening in those positions that are unlike indy and nascar. The top 10 get points. Points that are  literally worth millions of dollars that get paid to the team. In indy and NASCAR the top 10 are just racing for a place. In F1 a pass in the top ten is worth millions of dollars that team wins or loses per spot they gain or lose. Unlike indy and NASCAR a pass in F1 has a much bigger implication for the teams involved.  A huge sum  of money for development and in some cases wether the team will survive another season or not just from a simple pass for 10th spot. Also no the running order doesnt stay the same after the first turn  

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kevinkirk said:
. It's ok if if's your horse leading but supremely un-entertaining to watch the last 15 or so cars, doing "laps" for over an hour and a half...or am i wrong ?  
I don't think you understand what is happening in those positions that are unlike indy and nascar. The top 10 get points. Points that are  literally worth millions of dollars that get paid to the team. In indy and NASCAR the top 10 are just racing for a place. In F1 a pass in the top ten is worth millions of dollars that team wins or loses per spot they gain or lose. Unlike indy and NASCAR a pass in F1 has a much bigger implication for the teams involved.  A huge sum  of money for development and in some cases wether the team will survive another season or not just from a simple pass for 10th spot. Also no the running order doesnt stay the same after the first turn  
Yeah. One point is worth $20,000,000. (20 million)

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Bloomie01 said:
He didn't gain an advantage. Plus, the VSC and SC put Rosberg back with him anyway. Another reason is that Rosberg cut T2 also, so surely he would have to be penalised as well if they were to give Hamilton a penalty.
Rosberg's cornercutting was because Ricciardo or Verstappen touched him, so, that's not his fault.

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Cheezkape said:
kevinkirk said:
. It's ok if if's your horse leading but supremely un-entertaining to watch the last 15 or so cars, doing "laps" for over an hour and a half...or am i wrong ?  
I don't think you understand what is happening in those positions that are unlike indy and nascar. The top 10 get points. Points that are  literally worth millions of dollars that get paid to the team. In indy and NASCAR the top 10 are just racing for a place. In F1 a pass in the top ten is worth millions of dollars that team wins or loses per spot they gain or lose. Unlike indy and NASCAR a pass in F1 has a much bigger implication for the teams involved.  A huge sum  of money for development and in some cases wether the team will survive another season or not just from a simple pass for 10th spot. Also no the running order doesnt stay the same after the first turn  
Yeah. One point is worth $20,000,000. (20 million)
I dont know the exact figure but that amount of money makes all those positions fun to watch just like who wins the race. 

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kevinkirk said:
Cheezkape said:
kevinkirk said:
. It's ok if if's your horse leading but supremely un-entertaining to watch the last 15 or so cars, doing "laps" for over an hour and a half...or am i wrong ?  
I don't think you understand what is happening in those positions that are unlike indy and nascar. The top 10 get points. Points that are  literally worth millions of dollars that get paid to the team. In indy and NASCAR the top 10 are just racing for a place. In F1 a pass in the top ten is worth millions of dollars that team wins or loses per spot they gain or lose. Unlike indy and NASCAR a pass in F1 has a much bigger implication for the teams involved.  A huge sum  of money for development and in some cases wether the team will survive another season or not just from a simple pass for 10th spot. Also no the running order doesnt stay the same after the first turn  
Yeah. One point is worth $20,000,000. (20 million)
I dont know the exact figure but that amount of money makes all those positions fun to watch just like who wins the race. 
@kevinkirk agreed

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To be honest, I feel that F1 has gone mad - Hamilton may have cut the corner and on paper he may have gained 2 seconds for example, but that was not all that he gained by cutting the corner. Hamilton wants to win the championship and his teammate and championship rival was behind him, so by cutting the corner, he made it impossible for Rosberg to make a move. Also, it meant he had a reduced risk of getting involved in a turn 1 crash. Did the stewards take this into account when making their decision, I think not - they just looked at it on paper, and felt that he had gained 2 seconds, and he gave 2 seconds back.

Dont get me wrong, I do not think that drivers should be punished every time they leave the track, and I do not disagree with a driver cutting a corner if they have a legitimate reason such as avoiding an accident. However, Hamilton made a mistake and in sport, mistakes are what make the difference. I dont want drivers to always be given penalties, but i feel that they should have to make the drivers give back 150% to 200% of the time that they gained, so if they cut a corner, then at least we can say they havent gained an advantage, but instead lost a little bit of time. 

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To be honest, I feel that F1 has gone mad - Hamilton may have cut the corner and on paper he may have gained 2 seconds for example, but that was not all that he gained by cutting the corner. Hamilton wants to win the championship and his teammate and championship rival was behind him, so by cutting the corner, he made it impossible for Rosberg to make a move. Also, it meant he had a reduced risk of getting involved in a turn 1 crash. Did the stewards take this into account when making their decision, I think not - they just looked at it on paper, and felt that he had gained 2 seconds, and he gave 2 seconds back.

Dont get me wrong, I do not think that drivers should be punished every time they leave the track, and I do not disagree with a driver cutting a corner if they have a legitimate reason such as avoiding an accident. However, Hamilton made a mistake and in sport, mistakes are what make the difference. I dont want drivers to always be given penalties, but i feel that they should have to make the drivers give back 150% to 200% of the time that they gained, so if they cut a corner, then at least we can say they havent gained an advantage, but instead lost a little bit of time. 
I don't know why people are having trouble with this....The safety car came out moments after that happined and stacked the field back up nose to tail. The FIA doesnt give penalties unless a advantage was actually gained. They don't give a penalty simply because you ran off track. Infact you can run off track every lap if you wanted as long as you dont shorten that sectors time. The sector time has to show they gained a advantage. Since the safety car came out moments after that and stacked the field nose to tail no gain was made. Hamilton gained nothing. He was in first going in and was first coming out with the yellow stacking the field up nose to tail at slow speed behind a safety car. As far as what nico did that's a matter of opinion. Also im not a mercedes fan.  

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@kevinkirk - I totally agree, Hamilton didn't gain a TIME advantage, as the safety car backed the pack back up, but all I was trying to say is that in racing, it is not as simple as just a TIME advantage, like I said, by running wide, Hamilton couldn't get involved in a turn 1 accident and also Rosberg couldn't try to make a move, so the advantage was much more than just the TIME he gained by cutting the corner.

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..but Hamilton DID gain an advantage by making it impossible for Rosberg to have a chance at making a move.
That doesnt make any sense. Racing doesnt work that way. If people was penalized for making it impossible for the car behind them to make a move. Especially one that wasnt in a position to make a move like Rosberg. Then the race would literally come to a stop with everyone having a penalty. Thats what the car ahead does to the car behind. Grass or no grass. He was first going in and first coming out with a safety car immediatly slowing the field saving him from getting a penalty from gaining time. He ended up the exact same spot coming out of the corner as he went in the corner. Any time was taken away by the yellow.  As much as i would have liked to seen them both wadded up in the grass. Thats what happined.

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kevinkirk said:
..but Hamilton DID gain an advantage by making it impossible for Rosberg to have a chance at making a move.
That doesnt make any sense. Racing doesnt work that way. If people was penalized for making it impossible for the car behind them to make a move. Especially one that wasnt in a position to make a move like Rosberg. Then the race would literally come to a stop with everyone having a penalty. Thats what the car ahead does to the car behind. Grass or no grass. He was first going in and first coming out with a safety car immediatly slowing the field saving him from getting a penalty from gaining time. He ended up the exact same spot coming out of the corner as he went in the corner. Any time was taken away by the yellow.  As much as i would have liked to seen them both wadded up in the grass. Thats what happined.
Yes it does make sense, he made it impossible for Rosberg to make a move, because he broke the rules and cut the corner, meaning he gained more of an advantage than just the TIME he gained. If you cut the corner on a corner when the car behind could overtake and then gave the TIME back on a part of the track where they couldn't overtake, then you would keep the place - Hamilton kept the position unfairly and therefore should have been asked to give the place to Rosberg.

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Lewis was not penalized because he is lewis Hamilton. Now everything will be done to assist him in winning the title period.... btw I'm not a rosberg fan, but that's just how I see the whole thing. It's about making the British driver win the title 

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