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PJTierney

 

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Ahh, i see, thank you.

Does make me curious though, the image suggests that the first part is better than the two subsequent, which we know, and had described to us as not the case.

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I dont understand why they have taken staggered starts from the franchise ...You could find pieces of cars and broken signs and see the footprint of the cars ahead. It was one of the things that differentiated it from the other titles and gave it more immersion. :(





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I dont understand why they have taken staggered starts from the franchise ...You could find pieces of cars and broken signs and see the footprint of the cars ahead. It was one of the things that differentiated it from the other titles and gave it more immersion. :(





You're talking about on stage multiplayer?  Yeah, you'd get shorter and/or less detailed stages and something that's not Rally - remember this is supposed to be hardcore stage rally.

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I dont understand why they have taken staggered starts from the franchise ...You could find pieces of cars and broken signs and see the footprint of the cars ahead. It was one of the things that differentiated it from the other titles and gave it more immersion. :(





You're talking about on stage multiplayer?  Yeah, you'd get shorter and/or less detailed stages and something that's not Rally - remember this is supposed to be hardcore stage rally.
Both, online and solo. Do you mean some graphic engine limitation or something like that? I suppose that the engine after 10 years should have improved as to allow longer stages and better physics. I'm just saying its a pity. It has also happened with the split screen function, present in dirt 3.



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Even leaving out engine limitations etc, you can't have your cake and eat it.
Longer stages will take a toll on the system.
More detail will take a toll on the system.  (Split screen requires rendering it all twice)
More advanced physics will take a toll on the system.
Etc.

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ShodanCat said:
So are you guys who were contacted to provide feedback still actively participating in the process, or was it a one-and-done kind of deal? Also, what was the criteria for being selected? I sure would've liked a chance to offer feedback as well.
Honestly I feel like Early Access should be used again, but I suppose that ship has sailed already.
We're... active in our top secret spot, but as far as testing we don't know. We offered feedback but haven't had anything new in a while, so the gameplay video releases are exciting for us too. ;)
...it's a little unclear what we are and aren't allowed to say other than "We did testing! We like the physics!"
So... We did testing! We like the physics!

As to the selection process, I have absolutely no idea why I was chosen since I am absolutely nothing special, just an avid forum member. :P You'd have to ask Christina to figure out her reasoning for my attendance, other than she said she was looking for a "diverse" group of participants. Maybe you weren't diverse enough.
ShodanCat said:
So if there is deformation in the terrain, will have rally with staggered starts like Dirt2/3? I would like to see cars pass when you drive slow with damage...traffic is part of the rally.


I think some of us are getting our hopes up a bit as to just how the surface "deformation" really works. According to what we've seen and read from people who played it at the little event last weekend, the system selects from 3 possible states. So I'm assuming they hand-crafted some changes which are tied to each of the 3 states, and it selects from those based on the running order.

What I'm saying is I don't think it's some amazing real-time surface deformation technology, which is a lot to expect - but rather a pre-designed set of changes to each stage.

edit: And apologies, I know you weren't specifically talking about the tech behind the degradation/surface condition, I just thought I'd mention it. I doubt they were have traffic running the stages in general because it would require an entire AI system.
As just my thoughts, (i.e. nothing formal or informed) I don't think they changed a whole lot on the Ego engine, so DR and D4 didn't have staggered starts and I don't expect DR2 to have them due to engine limitations. Then again, the stages are obviously longer than DR based on the NZ vid, where I think the engine was being stretched pretty thin in the DR stages/length.
As such, if the engine won't handle actual staggered starts there's no real reason to make the road deformation super dynamic, so 3 states of "fresh" "Used" and "worn" would make sense.
I can see how that could be interpreted as 3 stages - however, that's not what he's saying, and notice the last thing he says is:

"...and then from 10th all the way down to kind of a 150th, you'll notice that the track will start to rut, material will start to be moved to the outside of the racing line and the track camber adjusts slightly based on the build up of that material, so where ever you are in the competition running order, you'll find a slightly different challenge.

This all suggests it's progressive - his description of the "3 states" was for where the best, worst and how affected the stage would be.
Hmm, potentially what it could be is something like 3 "hard" modeled surfaces that blend between each other for each running position, so it's a more "gradual" though still premade degradation.
What could potentially be possible is they have independent ruts or tire tracks that can randomly generate and blend together for a bit more variety.

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Even leaving out engine limitations etc, you can't have your cake and eat it.
Longer stages will take a toll on the system.
More detail will take a toll on the system.  (Split screen requires rendering it all twice)
More advanced physics will take a toll on the system.
Etc.

sigh...
I miss split screen games...

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Ok so degradation and deformation are 2 different things now, I would like to know if there will be texture changes (instead of mesh changes) to represent the degradation.   I guess it would be helpful to see the lines and ruts that we need to take or avoid to some degree, maybe it’s to fast to matter?

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gfRally said:
Ok so degradation and deformation are 2 different things now, I would like to know if there will be texture changes (instead of mesh changes) to represent the degradation.   I guess it would be helpful to see the lines and ruts that we need to take or avoid to some degree, maybe it’s to fast to matter?

Is it? I thought it was the same thing? 

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I’d be very surprised if it’s anything like real time degradation. If it was you would probably have to simulate all the cars in the rally, and in dirt 4 we had multi-class rallies with a lot of competitors. So if that carries over, I don’t think we would be seeing that. I hope the ruts aren’t completely pre determined, so we don’t always see the same rut on the same corner, but regardless it’s a very cool feature to have in the game!

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I’d be very surprised if it’s anything like real time degradation. If it was you would probably have to simulate all the cars in the rally, and in dirt 4 we had multi-class rallies with a lot of competitors. So if that carries over, I don’t think we would be seeing that. I hope the ruts aren’t completely pre determined, so we don’t always see the same rut on the same corner, but regardless it’s a very cool feature to have in the game!
It's confirmed its pre baked, which is fine. I'm just happy there will be actual road sweeping!  <3

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In GameRiot's video on Youtube, you can see the road deformation icon, right in the beginning of the stage.

There seems to be 3 levels of deformation.

Although a bit basic, its still a never before seen gameplay feature in a rally game, to my knowledge. Pretty cool.
Well, actually the often mentioned Richard Burns Rally had this feature. 

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I’m excited about some of the features in dirt 4 that probably got overlooked due to the handling issues that will hopefully be making their way over to DR2.

Things like multi class rallies, dynamic weather, puddles of rain water on the inside of corners, retired cars on stage!

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Flykas said:
In GameRiot's video on Youtube, you can see the road deformation icon, right in the beginning of the stage.

There seems to be 3 levels of deformation.

Although a bit basic, its still a never before seen gameplay feature in a rally game, to my knowledge. Pretty cool.
Well, actually the often mentioned Richard Burns Rally had this feature. 
What? I have zero memories of that other than that there are ruts here and there. 

Or are you talking about mods? 

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I’m excited about some of the features in dirt 4 that probably got overlooked due to the handling issues that will hopefully be making their way over to DR2.

Things like multi class rallies, dynamic weather, puddles of rain water on the inside of corners, retired cars on stage!
Agree with this; D4 got a lot of things right but just not the main ‘feeling’ one. Multi-class rallies was good, but spoiled a bit by you always having the same 16 drivers in your class, regardless of which that was.

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bogani said:
Flykas said:
In GameRiot's video on Youtube, you can see the road deformation icon, right in the beginning of the stage.

There seems to be 3 levels of deformation.

Although a bit basic, its still a never before seen gameplay feature in a rally game, to my knowledge. Pretty cool.
Well, actually the often mentioned Richard Burns Rally had this feature. 
What? I have zero memories of that other than that there are ruts here and there. 

Or are you talking about mods? 

No, vanilla game. Have you beaten it? Or at least finished some championships? There are ruts but they get deeper over time depending on your starting position and also some cuts on inside corners get really rough, really fun:] 

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Flykas said:
bogani said:
Flykas said:
In GameRiot's video on Youtube, you can see the road deformation icon, right in the beginning of the stage.

There seems to be 3 levels of deformation.

Although a bit basic, its still a never before seen gameplay feature in a rally game, to my knowledge. Pretty cool.
Well, actually the often mentioned Richard Burns Rally had this feature. 
What? I have zero memories of that other than that there are ruts here and there. 

Or are you talking about mods? 

No, vanilla game. Have you beaten it? Or at least finished some championships? There are ruts but they get deeper over time depending on your starting position and also some cuts on inside corners get really rough, really fun:] 
Interesting. Can't really remember, such a long time ago. 

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I’m excited about some of the features in dirt 4 that probably got overlooked due to the handling issues that will hopefully be making their way over to DR2.

Things like multi class rallies, dynamic weather, puddles of rain water on the inside of corners, retired cars on stage!

I'll add to that with multiplayer lobbies, which I thought were done really well.

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JZStudios said:
As to the selection process, I have absolutely no idea why I was chosen since I am absolutely nothing special, just an avid forum member. :P You'd have to ask Christina to figure out her reasoning for my attendance, other than she said she was looking for a "diverse" group of participants. Maybe you weren't diverse enough.
Maybe they chose those, who have reached Champion level in forums? 

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Didzis said:
JZStudios said:
As to the selection process, I have absolutely no idea why I was chosen since I am absolutely nothing special, just an avid forum member. :P You'd have to ask Christina to figure out her reasoning for my attendance, other than she said she was looking for a "diverse" group of participants. Maybe you weren't diverse enough.
Maybe they chose those, who have reached Champion level in forums? 
I can't speak for others but I won the Gadget Show competition they ran on DiRT Rally so I just asked afterwards if I could get involved in a test day if it ran and they said yes so that's how it happened for me!

Playing on a 20-30 foot events LCD is quite a task since the input lag is baaaadddd.

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NZ stage comparison to real life over in the Locations thread: http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/359537/#Comment_359537

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Other games with rally/cross style and proper deformation: Sega Rally (Revo) and this: http://www.worldracingseries.net
At a guess, I imagine the reason its not been done is those kinds of physics take a lot of power and I'd rather that power be reserved for the handling physics. Spin Tyres can do it because the vehicles are moving very slowly so its not having to load and deload tracks at a fast pace in comparison and Sega Rally handling physics were very basic.

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Jepsertti said:

Alright maybe I was exaggerating a bit when I said the Polo is kind of like Solberg's DS3. I still think that the latest 2018 spec Polo has quite a lot of body roll especially when going on the brakes as seen here at 2:42:

https://youtu.be/dY5xc3fGYXY

Yeah, the Polo does appear to dip quite heavily under braking, I wonder if it's more pronounced in the Polo (compared to the rest of the works cars) because of the weight distribution (some of the behavior of the car I have seen over jumps would support this theory). The front end of the Polo is pretty low as well, so it doesn't take much to have that front bumper scraping the tarmac!

I don't have many direct comparison photos, but here a few to give a gauge as to just how soft the PSRX DS3 was. 

Last turn at Loheac, the DS3 would drag it's entire left side on the ground here (you can see how close the left side of the front bumper is to the ground)...



...same corner and the Polo R is much flatter (and Petter really threw it in on this lap as well!)



Different view points, but the last corner at Lydden. Downhill and with a very fast turn in, the DS3 is fully cranked over (and you can see wear to the left side of the rear bumper from cornering at North Bend)...



...shot from a different angle, but the Polo GTI at the same point on the circuit and you can see how much flatter it is.



Off the start line (at Lydden), the DS3 is really low at the rear (compare it to the EKS S1 in the back of the shot) and would stay this way all the way until turn one...



...where as the Polo GTI squats no more than the other works cars (compare it to the EKS S1 in the background and the Hansen 208 to the left of shot)



Lastly - and these are two different circuits - but the DS3 in a high speed left hand corner (turn two, Franciacorta), the right rear was dragging on the ground here...



...the Polo R on a fast left (turn eight, Barcelona: a corner which is also slightly downhill) and the car is still pretty flat. 



I miss Petter in the DS3. The DS3 is not my favourite looking modern rallycross Supercar, but Solberg's car (with Petter at the wheel) was always the most entertaining thing to watch on track! 

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Thanks @tbtstt for such an in-depth reply :) I really miss Petter in his DS3 too. It definitely wasn't the prettiest looking car but seeing that unique suspension in action combined with Petter's driving style really made me fall in love with that car/driver combination.

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