DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

Judging by the car classes currently in the game there is one visible gap: the 2000s...   There are plenty of classics to pick from that period! :D

I'm not that knowledgeable about history of rally so perhaps someone else could take a guess at this: was there a Rally Finland event in 2000s where the battle came right down to the wire?

I know that Marcus Gronholm won Rally Finland in 2000s many times (7 according to Wiki) while driving the Peugeot 206 WRC, Peugeot 307 WRC and Ford Focus RS WRC. I'd welcome these cars, please and thank you :)

Ford Focus RS WRC made an appearance in DiRT 3 so, assuming Ford likes being in rally games, it shouldn't require a great deal of work from the team.... That's comparing it to getting in cars from scratch.

Another car from 2000s, which Codies already had in their games was the Citroen C4.

So if Codies were limited to 2-3 cars from that period they could have gone for example with a pairing of:
Ford Focus RS WRC - Citroen C4   - cool, but these wouldn't be brand new to DiRT
Ford Focus WRC 01 - Peugeot 206 - Subaru Impreza WRC from early 2000s - Citroen Xsara

[tbtstt 2,387]

KingOfCoins said:

I think it's more likely we'll get Makinen's Lancer and Grönholm's  206/307 

I might be able to save the dev team some time if they are modelling the 307 for DiRT Rally. Here is an accurate CAD drawing I did of it earlier:

[gaski 2]

DocStrangelove said:

Sadly, no achievements for wrecking opponent cars in online events, that would've been a great idea :(

Go and play grid autosport, seems the norm over there. 

[MastaVonBlasta 2]

grancab said:

KingOfCoins said:

I think it's more likely we'll get Makinen's Lancer and Grönholm's  206/307 

By looking at "periodic table of dirt rally's cars" the cars that could "fit" in Finland legends update are Makinen's subaru 2001/2002 wrc (the frog eyed one), Grönholm's pug 307 2005 wrc or Kankkunen's toyota celica gt-four st-205.... the ones you point are, sadly, not in the list

Whoa! What is this period table of DiRT Rally cars?

Can you explain a bit more how you've arrived at your conclusion?

[KingOfCoins 286]

I just went by the wall of cars we saw way back. Only the 307 were present. As for thinking it will be the a pug and a mitsubushi. I figured since the pack will contain finnish stages it would have some cars that would relate to that. So i was thinking finnish legendary drivers, with wrc winning cars. The only ones i could see that were not present were gronholm's 206 makkinen's lancer and kankunen's celica. And since Toyota is not gonna be in the game, i figured the 206 and the lancer would be most likely

[Rallycameraman 241]

KingOfCoins said:

I just went by the wall of cars we saw way back. Only the 307 were present. As for thinking it will be the a pug and a mitsubushi. I figured since the pack will contain finnish stages it would have some cars that would relate to that. So i was thinking finnish legendary drivers, with wrc winning cars. The only ones i could see that were not present were gronholm's 206 makkinen's lancer and kankunen's celica. And since Toyota is not gonna be in the game, i figured the 206 and the lancer would be most likely

What if I told you, you're wrong?

[tbtstt 2,387]

GentleNameMVB said:

Judging by the car classes currently in the game there is one visible gap: the 2000s...   There are plenty of classics to pick from that period! :D

Fully agree! Assuming that both new cars are from the same era, then the second generation Focus WRC and Citroen C4 WRC certainly seem a possibility; both cars were driven by legends (and we know CM have modeled them in the past) though, if I'm being picky, I personally wouldn't class them both as legendary cars. 

I'd love to see more cars from the early World Rally Car era (i.e. 1997 to 2003). The absence of cars from this period was the biggest flaw of the DiRT 3 car list in my personal opinion. Plus there were some truly iconic car/driver combinations in that era:

Carlos Sainz -  Ford Focus WRC
Colin McRae - Subaru S4 and S5 Impreza WRC
Colin McRae - Ford Focus WRC
Juha Kankkunen - Subaru S5 Impreza WRC
Marcus Gronholm - Peugeot 206 WRC
Petter Solberg - Ford Focus WRC
Petter Solberg - Subaru Impreza S9 WRC
Richard Burns - Subaru S6 and S7 Impreza WRC
Richard Burns - Peugeot 206 WRC
Sebastien Loeb - Citroen Xsara WRC
Tommi Makinen - Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VI (though this would technically fall under Group A, not World Rally Car)

Any two of those above would would be fantastic to see in DiRT Rally! 

[KingOfCoins 286]

Rallycameraman said:

KingOfCoins said:

I just went by the wall of cars we saw way back. Only the 307 were present. As for thinking it will be the a pug and a mitsubushi. I figured since the pack will contain finnish stages it would have some cars that would relate to that. So i was thinking finnish legendary drivers, with wrc winning cars. The only ones i could see that were not present were gronholm's 206 makkinen's lancer and kankunen's celica. And since Toyota is not gonna be in the game, i figured the 206 and the lancer would be most likely

What if I told you, you're wrong?

I guess I would be dissapointed. But that would depend on the cars that would appear instead.

[RodgerDavies 933]

Trying to piece together some clues as to what they might be. Feel free to chime in, as I’m aware this will seem slightly obsessive. For the record, I really enjoy things like Pub Quizzes and Murder Mysteries.

So my logic is based on a combination of the following:

We know there will be no Porsche (confirmed by Lee), Toyota (confirmed by Lee) or Volvo (confirmed by Lee), whilst Mazda (hinted by Paul, who would ‘like them to be represented eventually’) are highly unlikely at the moment; possibly in the Sweden pack.

I’m also piecing together clues about specific cars. Because the 1984 S1 is #thatcar (ie: the ‘halo car’), I suspect that there are no plans for the Evo 2, and Luke has replied to a thread before saying “no more Quattros”, so I assume that’s unlikely.

I’ve made some assumptions too. We also know that the Renault 5 and Alpine A110 are modelled and in development builds, but were originally planned to be in the Tarmac Terrors pack (Paul on Twitter) so are unlikely to be the two cars referred to in the Finland pack. I assume they’re out for licensing reasons, hopefully to return in future. I also suspect a design decision will mean multiple cars from the same manufacturer in the same class are unlikely (rightfully so, in my book).

So what do we know about the ‘two’? We know there are “two legendary cars from two legendary drivers” from the timeline, and they must have fairly evocative works liveries. Luke is also a big fan of them, which I wish it was more of a clue but would mean I would be cyberstalking more than I’d be comfortable with. You know him better than me. ;)

We also know that the Modern Masters pack promises to include “a new class”, which I would expect to be the 2000s class cars, so that would discount several of the favourites that fit this description. I can’t imagine it being 2010s cars either, as they’d surely fit the narrative of Modern Masters better.

So a Marlboro or Ralliart coloured Mitsubishi Lancer Evo of Tommi Makinen (and Richard Burns) fame would seem highly appropriate and would fit the above criteria and the existing class structure, I hope it’s an Evo III or IV, to better match the existing cars, but I’m not going to get that specific.

If one is a Mitsubishi, it makes it even more unlikely that the second would be a 2000s car, as it would be on its own. Originally, I was thinking a Celica, but that’s out, then I started thinking Erik Calsson’s Saab would fit, then I moved onto Mikkola’s Twin Cam Escort, but neither would fit young whippersnapper Luke’s excitement (sorry sir, not meaning to patronise!) or have particularly iconic ‘works’ liveries.

So I’m genuinely a little stuck. What other legends are there out there? Rohl’s Ascona in Rothmans colours seems unlikely, even though it was on the Periodic Table. Mazdas would invoke more passion for sound than livery, so what am I missing (or assuming incorrectly)?

One slight possibility I could think of would be Sebastien Loeb’s [Citroen] DS3, but I have my fears about the licensing availability of that car, and would it necessarily qualify as ‘legendary’, seeing as even its driver wasn’t its biggest fan?

If it were to be 2000s, Gronholm’s 206 or 307 (Marlboro), Solberg/Burns’ Impreza (555) or Sainz/McRae’s Focus (Martini) would fit the criteria, but I would guess those three are destined for the Modern Masters pack.

‘Over 15 cars’ in production/planned, of which at least 5-6 must be rallycross, so if we’re to assume (maybe wrongly, there could be some hillclimbers in there) that there are still ~9 rally cars in the works, my guesses would be on:

Near certainties:

Mitsubishi Lancer (Group A)

VW Polo (2010s)

Peugeot 206 or 307 (2000s)

Subaru Impreza (2000s)

Ford Focus (2000s)

Licensing permitting (ie: I have my doubts):

Renault 5 (1980s RWD)

Alpine A110 (1960s)

Citroen Xsara (2000s)

[Citroen] DS 3 (2010s)

Outsiders:

Hyundai i20 (2010s)

Saab 96 (1960s)

Mitsubishi Lancer (2000s)

Skoda Fabia WRC (2000s)

Very outsiders (I guess they weren’t in the initial scope):

Vauxhall Astra Kit Car (Kit Cars)

Mazda RX7 (Group B RWD)

Datsun 240Z (1960s?)

Opel Ascona 400 (1980s RWD)

Seat Cordoba E2 (2000s)

Am I going to have to go to Hell (wouldn’t be the first time I’d been told to do that today!) just to get hints about these?

[RookieOne 61]

That is exactly WHY I want the playable codriver mode in multiplayer to happen.

[RodgerDavies 933]

GentleNameMVB said:

Whoa! What is this period table of DiRT Rally cars?

A two year old Wish List: https://www.reddit.com/r/dirtgame/comments/36j0e4/periodic_table_of_dirt_car_list_at_codemasters/

Not definitive, but it's been accurate so far.

[couger1981 89]

Here is a old thread called DiRT4 / New Rally game suggestions 

Old forum

[function9 0]

Even if you were a Peugeot fanboy, how could one seriously consider the 307 as legendary? The only thing legendary about that is the amount of times the gearbox or power steering failed. Gronholm probably still wakes up some nights in a cold sweat because of that car.

[MartijnvH 12]

function9 said:

Even if you were a Peugeot fanboy, how could one seriously consider the 307 as legendary? The only thing legendary about that is the amount of times the gearbox or power steering failed. Gronholm probably still wakes up some nights in a cold sweat because of that car.

Okey,... I do drive Peugeot rallycars in real life but still i have to agree the 307 WRC isnt that legendary as for example the 205 T16 or the 206 WRC, etc etc,.. overall Peugeot made many good rallycars! ( look at the 106,206,306 maxi 

But Marcus Gronholm had some amazing quotes in the Peugeot 307 WRC, that made the 307 i guess legendary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqQhQSbe6fw

Although those lines from Gronhol are also legendary;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF_0PoLbZro

[shadow118 18]

RodgerDavies said:

Very outsiders (I guess they weren’t in the initial scope):

Vauxhall Astra Kit Car (Kit Cars)

Mazda RX7 (Group B RWD)

Datsun 240Z (1960s?)

Opel Ascona 400 (1980s RWD)

Seat Cordoba E2 (2000s)

240Z would more likely be in 1970s, they were produced from 1969 to 1978. Also, an RX-7 would be awesome :D 

[RodgerDavies 933]

Didzis said:

RodgerDavies said:

Very outsiders (I guess they weren’t in the initial scope):

Vauxhall Astra Kit Car (Kit Cars)

Mazda RX7 (Group B RWD)

Datsun 240Z (1960s?)

Opel Ascona 400 (1980s RWD)

Seat Cordoba E2 (2000s)

240Z would more likely be in 1970s, they were produced from 1969 to 1978. Also, an RX-7 would be awesome :D 

That's as may be, but if the Alpine A110 1600 counts as 60s, then I'd argue the Datsun would be too although, granted, it doesn't really fit either. I can't imagine it will be included either, as it's a lot less important to rallying than the Violet/160J from the late 70s (which would fit the 70s category better), but I put it on there because I was surprised by the support for it on the Steam forum. It did have an iconic livery though...

But I digress... Anyone else got any educated guesses or want to correct any of my wrong assumptions?

[Evilsmurf 90]

I take an educated guess and say we will get rally cars! :p

[Rallycameraman 241]

Or we could get some new Pikes Peak cars :open_mouth: 

[BrySkye 14]

Rallycameraman said:

Or we could get some new Pikes Peak cars :open_mouth: 

lol... The sad thing about that is calling them Pikes Peak cars instead of Hill Climb. But apt saying as Pikes Peak is probably all we're going to get in that class.
I do hope so though. Some Suzuki's, Hyundai and the 208 T16 to round off all the Pugs.

[DocStrangelove 165]

ThierryNeuville said:

function9 said:

Even if you were a Peugeot fanboy, how could one seriously consider the 307 as legendary? The only thing legendary about that is the amount of times the gearbox or power steering failed. Gronholm probably still wakes up some nights in a cold sweat because of that car.

Okey,... I do drive Peugeot rallycars in real life but still i have to agree the 307 WRC isnt that legendary as for example the 205 T16 or the 206 WRC, etc etc,.. overall Peugeot made many good rallycars! ( look at the 106,206,306 maxi 

But Marcus Gronholm had some amazing quotes in the Peugeot 307 WRC, that made the 307 i guess legendary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqQhQSbe6fw

That incident was the reason why I didn't buy a 307

[macebig 4]

Why hasnt anyone thought of suggesting to add the 3 F1 tracks in RX pack?Codies already have the 3d objects for Hockenheim Istanbul and Catalunya so it will only take some AI adjustment and some dirt layers to just double RX tracks in game.Also they should not be any licensing problem.

[Rallycameraman 241]

Don't think it's as easy as that sadly. 

[dwkGravey 0]

macebig said:

Why hasnt anyone thought of suggesting to add the 3 F1 tracks in RX pack?Codies already have the 3d objects for Hockenheim Istanbul and Catalunya so it will only take some AI adjustment and some dirt layers to just double RX tracks in game.Also they should not be any licensing problem.

There would probably be huge licensing problems. Istanbul Park is owned by FOM I think, for starters, so their deal probably involves all kinds of arbitrary limitations—it can only have current F1 cars driving on it, these advertisers must be included, these weather conditions are forbidden, it can only be photographed from its good side, all copies expire and must self-destruct by 2018 etc etc etc.

I don't know much about licensing content for video games, but from what I've gathered it's all about conjuring up the most byzantine, capricious, restrictive, developer- and player-hostile tangle of requirements, granting the developer the privilege for their game to be free profit-generating advertising for the license holder.

Or something like that.

[macebig 4]

Why should it be licensing problems?Codies have the licensing for the series (FIA WRX) so what is the difficulty in including rounds of a licensed series.Plus two of those tracks (Hockenheim and Istanbul) have appeared in other games made from the same company (see Grid series).And Catalunya has appeared in other games (not by Codemasters).So it looks weird to me.

[KingOfCoins 286]

They may have the rights for those tracks. But maybe they only have the rights to do F1 races on those tracks. Other types like Rallycross could require different licences