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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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dwkGravey said:
macebig said:
Why hasnt anyone thought of suggesting to add the 3 F1 tracks in RX pack?Codies already have the 3d objects for Hockenheim Istanbul and Catalunya so it will only take some AI adjustment and some dirt layers to just double RX tracks in game.Also they should not be any licensing problem.
There would probably be huge licensing problems. Istanbul Park is owned by FOM I think, for starters, so their deal probably involves all kinds of arbitrary limitations—it can only have current F1 cars driving on it, these advertisers must be included, these weather conditions are forbidden, it can only be photographed from its good side, all copies expire and must self-destruct by 2018 etc etc etc.

I don't know much about licensing content for video games, but from what I've gathered it's all about conjuring up the most byzantine, capricious, restrictive, developer- and player-hostile tangle of requirements, granting the developer the privilege for their game to be free profit-generating advertising for the license holder.

Or something like that.
As far as im aware, F1 doesnt have any rights to any of the circuits (except perhaps Monaco circuit which is actually public roads so do they have rights really?) as the circuits are owned and managed by separate organisations and deals are made between them and the F1 management for hosting a race.
Istanbul Park itself hasnt even been on the F1 calander for 4/5 years so why would F1 have any say in the matter? 
My guess would be that the licensing costs would be too high for these big circuits, as they are normally produced in their entirety a full track may be worth it, but compare these two things:
-Getting a license for a small RallyX track with low annual income (therefore low expectation on price.)
-Getting a license for a Multi Million dollar Motorsport complex only to use a small part of it in game.

For the same amount of track, it is likely much cheaper and easier to get an agreement with locations such as Lydden Hill and Holjes, than it would be with Istanbull park or Hockenheimring.

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Hard to say. DiRT Rally does have the official FIA WRX license, including the cars and drivers.
If it's anything like the FIA F1 license, then it should be pretty inclusive as a package, including the tracks.
Usually the licensing problems come in the form of not having the official series license, which they actually do have.

I'd imagine its probably just that the RX tracks aren't the same as F1 tracks. Whilst it would take a lot less work than creating them from scratch, you'd still have to edit them significantly, even if they smoothly dropped into DiRT Rally's version of the EGO engine.
 
One must admit, it seems a bit odd to bother getting an FIA license like that and only featuring 3 events.
Sort of wonder if it might have been better using that license to develop a full blooded WRX title as a separate project instead of bolting it on as a small part of this game. Though that way they probably wouldn't have been able to take the sim approach and it would be more like Showdown 2.

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austinb said:
Istanbul Park itself hasnt even been on the F1 calander for 4/5 years so why would F1 have any say in the matter? 
Isn't Istanbul Park owned by a subsidiary of FOM? I just try to imagine the strangest reasons for things not being allowed, since that seems to be the main goal for license holders (no damage allowed for first four Gran Turismos; cars couldn't flip in Forza until FM3; etc).

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macebig said:
Why should it be licensing problems?Codies have the licensing for the series (FIA WRX) so what is the difficulty in including rounds of a licensed series.Plus two of those tracks (Hockenheim and Istanbul) have appeared in other games made from the same company (see Grid series).And Catalunya has appeared in other games (not by Codemasters).So it looks weird to me.
They may have the licenses for those tracks for F1 but they can't just use them in a different game without permission.

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macebig said:
Why should it be licensing problems?Codies have the licensing for the series (FIA WRX) so what is the difficulty in including rounds of a licensed series.Plus two of those tracks (Hockenheim and Istanbul) have appeared in other games made from the same company (see Grid series).And Catalunya has appeared in other games (not by Codemasters).So it looks weird to me.

I also think including the F1 track based RX layouts is a good possibility.

With F1 Codemasters don't have to worry about getting a licence with each of the tracks as I presume they'll all be covered under the overall F1 licence from FOM. I guess the contracts with tracks include the right to represent them in a video game.

If IMG have the same clause/part in their contracts, which would give them such a right then they could pass it onto Codies. And with Codies having already modelled the surrounding terrain and the F1 tracks should be able to complete the environment with much less effort than for a brand new place.

I think Codies and IMG see this World RX partnership as quite a long term one. So while for DiRT Rally we know we'll get to play on three tracks, I think we'll see more in the future.

The layouts based at F1 tracks are pretty good IMO. They tend to end up with fast tarmac sections and twisty gravel bits. The RX Barcelona layout looked really good to me - so good that I've been looking into flights...

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macebig said:
Why should it be licensing problems?Codies have the licensing for the series (FIA WRX) so what is the difficulty in including rounds of a licensed series.Plus two of those tracks (Hockenheim and Istanbul) have appeared in other games made from the same company (see Grid series).And Catalunya has appeared in other games (not by Codemasters).So it looks weird to me.
I'm not sure how easy it would be with regards to licensing, but I see your point that Codemasters have done the research for these locations...

...having said that, if Codemasters do intend to add more rallycross tracks to DiRT Rally, I would personally rather see permanent rallycross tracks rather than temporary ones. It would be superb to see Loheac (France) or Estering (Germany) in game. The circuit at Mettet (Belgium) would also be a lot of fun to drive (though I suspect there would be a lot of contact at turn 1).

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They would have to do new research trips to capture the rallycross section, as I believe most of them are pretty recent additions?

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So to end this I will make it a straight forward question to @justbiglee .Lee are there any plans to convert the 3 F1 tracks to RX content and add them to Dirt Rally?And if not what are the issues prohibiting the conversion to happen(i.e. licensing,technical,manpower etc)?Thanks in advance.

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macebig said:
So to end this I will make it a straight forward question to @justbiglee .Lee are there any plans to convert the 3 F1 tracks to RX content and add them to Dirt Rally?And if not what are the issues prohibiting the conversion to happen(i.e. licensing,technical,manpower etc)?Thanks in advance.
I can't find a link right now, but to a similar question on Steam he answered that the were no plans for other rallycross circuits from WRX "in DiRT Rally".

I suspect they're in production for a future title.

It's not like there's much of them modelled. Aside from a section of the outer scenery, it's not like the rallycross layout is modelled at all at any of those environments.

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I can't find a link right now, but to a similar question on Steam he answered that the were no plans for other rallycross circuits from WRX "in DiRT Rally".

I suspect they're in production for a future title.
Yeah, that's the most tantalizing part. With the World RX license but only three circuits, and no plans for any DLC (rally or otherwise), Dirt Rally is really feeling like a testbed. I guess that was always the case, but seeing things like a limited rallycross mode are driving that home for me: that DR won't be a "full" game. But don't get me wrong, that's exactly what I signed up for. Which means a) I'm pulling for this game's success, and b) I'm getting really excited thinking about what the next proper Dirt game is going to be—how many more stages, what will career mode be like, will there be a full World RX championship?

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Really sorry to right the following lines but following what is going on with F1 2015 Codemasters have no choice than to go all in with Dirt Rally.Get all the staff you can onboard,do whatever you can to get out the best game you can or else there will be No next game.

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That said, should there be a "full" RX game later, I'll buy it. I'll also buy Dirt 4 if it happens. Only because of Dirt Rally. They lost me after Dirt 1, but now they have me back.

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I saw an Evo VI on the drive home today (driven by a woman who must've been in her 50s—rock on, lady), so I'm really jonesing for a Lancer in an update soon... :#

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Red Bull posted this interview with Codemasters creative director James Nicholls on Facebook today.

http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331737836679/codemasters-studio-interview

"Codemasters has been fairly late to adopt the new consoles – will we see you embracing Xbox One and PS4 more in the future?
CM: We’ll definitely be embracing them a lot more, but I don’t think being late or being perceived to be being late is going to harm us. The install base is getting bigger and bigger, so when we do come in we’ll have a lot of people with the consoles in their homes, waiting for Codemasters games to play. I’m sure we’ll see that with F1 pretty imminently, and I think when we can get something like DiRT onto console, that will go great guns too."

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Red Bull posted this interview with Codemasters creative director James Nicholls on Facebook today.

http://www.redbull.com/en/games/stories/1331737836679/codemasters-studio-interview

"Codemasters has been fairly late to adopt the new consoles – will we see you embracing Xbox One and PS4 more in the future?
CM: We’ll definitely be embracing them a lot more, but I don’t think being late or being perceived to be being late is going to harm us. The install base is getting bigger and bigger, so when we do come in we’ll have a lot of people with the consoles in their homes, waiting for Codemasters games to play. I’m sure we’ll see that with F1 pretty imminently, and I think when we can get something like DiRT onto console, that will go great guns too."

Notice they say DiRT not DiRT rally?

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'Something like DiRT' ........ I don't like the sound of that...

Unless they mean DiRT Rally Ultimate Edition...

I have to say that the interview gave me mixed emotions. On one hand there are bits, which suggest that now with the positive reception to DiRT Rally they want to take it to consoles with confidence that it would sell well.

But then they say things like: 'When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim.'

Sounds like back-pedalling from the authenticity and focus of DiRT Rally back towards the broadness and more mass appeal of DiRT 1-3.

They seem to think they can read what people want, but they went full out with GRID 2 (eh...) and GRID Autosport (OK but far from amazing). The reason why Codies are not that healthy financially now is that those games didn't sell well.

So why not drop the assumption that a focused 95% sim game won't appeal to many people? It has already on Steam Early Access and it will appeal to console players, who definitely want a thrilling and authentic experience. Not a watered down version with narrative full of stereotypes and americanism.


This: 'I think right now, our focus has got to be on DiRT Rally and getting that right.' suggest there will be more to DiRT Rally than just PC Early Access.

Overall, I'm not sure what these clearly important game directors are saying... Behind all the chat about giving employees opportunities and making games people ask for there is this halo of pre-DiRT Rally days when employees were made redundant and GRID 2 was released....

So will we see the vision of DiRT Rally continue?

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'Something like DiRT' ........ I don't like the sound of that...

Unless they mean DiRT Rally Ultimate Edition...

I have to say that the interview gave me mixed emotions. On one hand there are bits, which suggest that now with the positive reception to DiRT Rally they want to take it to consoles with confidence that it would sell well.

But then they say things like: 'When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim.'

Sounds like back-pedalling from the authenticity and focus of DiRT Rally back towards the broadness and more mass appeal of DiRT 1-3.

They seem to think they can read what people want, but they went full out with GRID 2 (eh...) and GRID Autosport (OK but far from amazing). The reason why Codies are not that healthy financially now is that those games didn't sell well.

So why not drop the assumption that a focused 95% sim game won't appeal to many people? It has already on Steam Early Access and it will appeal to console players, who definitely want a thrilling and authentic experience. Not a watered down version with narrative full of stereotypes and americanism.


This: 'I think right now, our focus has got to be on DiRT Rally and getting that right.' suggest there will be more to DiRT Rally than just PC Early Access.

Overall, I'm not sure what these clearly important game directors are saying... Behind all the chat about giving employees opportunities and making games people ask for there is this halo of pre-DiRT Rally days when employees were made redundant and GRID 2 was released....

So will we see the vision of DiRT Rally continue?
Seems that management may want DiRT 1 - 3 discipline type racing added to DiRT rally when they say "When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim"

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couger1981 said:
Seems that management may want DiRT 1 - 3 discipline type racing added to DiRT rally when they say "When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim"

That's pretty much what I wrote in my post.

I just wouldn't like it personally if they decide to do that...

Evilsmurf said:
So looks like we could be playing DiRT Rally for the next 11 years then...


Hmmm that sounds good, but how did you come to that conclusion? :D

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Seems that management may want DiRT 1 - 3 discipline type racing added to DiRT rally when they say "When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim"
I do so love it when someone I've never met before, tells me the game I want to play and what it should have in it.

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SLRE delayed until Early 2016.

I think they're playing too much DiRT Rally and they realized that their game isn't enough to be something like DR.

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