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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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Azoresst said:
SLRE delayed until Early 2016.

I think they're playing too much DiRT Rally and they realized that their game isn't enough to be something like DR.
They can delay it forever and even by then they won't be able to reach the quality of DR.

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TPJP said:
Azoresst said:
SLRE delayed until Early 2016.

I think they're playing too much DiRT Rally and they realized that their game isn't enough to be something like DR.
They can delay it forever and even by then they won't be able to reach the quality of DR.
That's why I said "something like".

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Azoresst said:
SLRE delayed until Early 2016.

I think they're playing too much DiRT Rally and they realized that their game isn't enough to be something like DR.
Has a reason been given for the delay? Surely releasing it early 2016 is going to be a bit stupid, as that's when DiRT will hit consoles..... ;)

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Azoresst said:
TPJP said:
Azoresst said:
SLRE delayed until Early 2016.

I think they're playing too much DiRT Rally and they realized that their game isn't enough to be something like DR.
They can delay it forever and even by then they won't be able to reach the quality of DR.
That's why I said "something like".
Nah, not even close to that. :D

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<rant>


Colin McRae and the TOCA games are very different to something like GRID 2. We’ve evolved with the times.
And that's why I stopped buying them.


When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim.

Seriously… what the **** has to happen for these people to think “actually, maybe focusing on one thing and doing it well has potential”?


Look at the recent successes in the driving game market. Project CARS? Whether you agree with it or not, focusing on sim racing is the message they’ve been using and people have bought into it en masse. Forza? Currently implementing more ‘sim’ aspects in response to demands of their market. Assetto Corsa? As simmy as simming can get, but a big PC success and now being hyped on consoles.

Please, tell me how many copies an Early Access game has to sell for these directors to be convinced. How high a rating must it receive? What quantity of gushing reviews are required?

What data are these sort of statements based upon? Does anyone read that a game is difficult and go “it’s not for me”? Do they have better information from somewhere than the hundreds of polls on this site and the community survey that they commissioned?


Genuine questions:

Since the launch of DR, how many people have complained that it’s missing something that was in D2 or D3 compared to the number of people that have been very pleased with the game, but suggested some gameplay tweaks? Because I’ve seen a few, but hardly any, calls for those things across the different forums.

How many more people are playing all other DiRT games combined compared to the Early Access version of DiRT Rally? Assuming steamcharts.com is accurate, many less. In fact, there are nearly as many people playing DR as are playing F1 2015, with all of its marketing clout.

How many “it’s too hard” posts are there versus “it’s too easy”? Over here, Steam and Reddit I’d say it works out fairly evenly, but the overall consensus seems to be that the difficulty level is great the way it is.


I’m so glad that some of these directors aren’t part of other companies. Imagine them in charge of Flight Simulator - “Needs more fighter planes, jets and Red Bull Air Race” - or in charge of FIFA - “Needs to have rugby as well. And cricket. They use a ball too.” 


For the record, I’m playing this game on a pad. It’s superb. I don’t want it to be easier. In fact, I just want more of it. Am I going to be turned off if it doesn’t have monster trucks, or if it doesn’t have buggies or if it doesn’t have enough jumps, gymkhana or it requires an attention span? No. I haven’t bought a Codemasters game since Colin McRae Rally 2.0, 15 (?) years ago, and if they’re determined to take a great game and divide it by the lowest common denominator again, they can do without my custom in future too.

In fact, the most common ‘complaint’ I see is “I want to see more”, be it stages or cars. I see more posts asking for Mitsubishis or Toyotas or Corsican stages or New Zealand stages or just more Welsh and Greek stages than any requests for new disciplines or lesser difficulty settings. Even the upcoming introduction of rallycross has met a somewhat mixed reaction.

I have friends with XBoxes and Playstations, who are fans of Forza, GT and now Project CARS and they’re looking enviously as I play DiRT Rally. They don’t have any interest in DiRT 4, they want the simulation that I’m raving about and they’re watching videos of.

It would be great if the people speaking about ‘the people’ could clarify any of the above questions for me.


</rant>

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Azoresst said:
SLRE delayed until Early 2016.

I think they're playing too much DiRT Rally and they realized that their game isn't enough to be something like DR.
Has a reason been given for the delay? Surely releasing it early 2016 is going to be a bit stupid, as that's when DiRT will hit consoles..... ;)
Bearing in mind they've promised 60 cars and only shown 5, I can't say it's a gigantic surprise!

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Seems that management may want DiRT 1 - 3 discipline type racing added to DiRT rally when they say "When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim"
Possibly, but of course that would be rubbish. They'd also say "not a lot of people will get into a brutally difficult game like Dark Souls or Binding of Isaac." But those games do rather well and are considered modern classics, unlike very most easier games. Or what about R-Type etc.? So many people, including console gamers, are tired of ever-the-same easy games that almost play themselves. In this business-driven age, very few make hardcore games anymore, but many people lust for them.

If you follow gaming sites, you may have noticed that in every article about Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo or WRC 5, comments are full of people saying "I really wish Dirt Rally comes to console". It's almost legendary already. They want it. Codemasters has it.

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"When it comes to making a bigger, broader game, you have to start making trade-offs, because not a lot of people will get into a really difficult rally sim"

It would the seem creative director is out of touch.

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Always the same, devs know often know very well what they do, but someone in management thinks he knows better. Just reminded me of Steve Ballmer saying that there's no way the iPhone would be successful.

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Always the same, devs know often know very well what they do, but someone in management thinks he knows better. Just reminded me of Steve Ballmer saying that there's no way the iPhone would be successful.
Yep, exactly the same thing that originally destroyed R3E. It took the bankruptcy of the original studio, the previously successful Simbin, to make them change direction. Only now is it proving its potential as one of the best modern sims, after originally being told by its owners to make it more 'accessible'. Makes me wonder where it could be if they'd stuck to the original GTR3 brief instead.

Some of those questions from above I would love to know the answer to though. I'm sure most people on here are championing this game across the internet, but it would be great to know if it has been the success that we consider it to be, or if there were more ambitious targets.

Either way, from the interviews with @KickUp I feel this iteration of the game is in the right hands and hope the team are able to continue in this new direction.

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I have friends with XBoxes and Playstations, who are fans of Forza, GT and now Project CARS and they’re looking enviously as I play DiRT Rally. They don’t have any interest in DiRT 4, they want the simulation that I’m raving about and they’re watching videos of.
I know quite a few people who are interested in D:R, not despite the fact that it hasn't got the stuff from the old DiRT titles, but because it hasn't got them.

My brother messaged me last week, he'd just seen a D:R vid on youtube and wanted to know when it's coming out on the consoles. So I taunted him by sending him a couple more and asked him 'What? You mean this D:R?'.

He replied with comments that I can't post on here, but he questioned the legitimacy of my parentage while telling me to go away. He's your previous DiRT titles target audience. He's not normally into race sims, uses auto gears and assists, enjoyed the Gymkhana stuff in D3, but he's gagging for D:R now. He even bought CMR for his phone because the vids psyched him up so much.

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Nothing like the perspective of corporate executives to put a damper on things, eh? Unfortunately it is simply a numbers game to the execs, and from the numbers view DiRT Rally is not even in the same league as DiRT 3 and GRID.

From Steam Spy - Number of Owners:
DiRT 3 Complete1,014,450 (±23,501)
GRID 2780,864 (±20,628)
GRID583,248 (±17,835)
DiRT Showdown483,078 (±16,234)
DiRT Rally110,201 (±7,759)

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Assuming steamcharts.com is accurate, many less. In fact, there are nearly as many people playing DR as are playing F1 2015, with all of its marketing clout.

That's... not a good thing to bring up. 
It kind of tells you something that almost as many people are playing the frankly, bodged "only 1 out of 3 reviews is positive and lots of people got refunds (including me)" PC version of F1 2015 as are playing the comparatively critically acclaimed despite being unfinished, and cheaper, DiRT Rally.
That's not a happy stat at all.

RodgerDavies said:
I’m so glad that some of these directors aren’t part of other companies. Imagine them in charge of Flight Simulator - “Needs more fighter planes, jets and Red Bull Air Race”

Errrrm... hah... actually... I'm really not sure if you're being a bit ironic there or not... 'cause, well, Flight Simulator X literally did all of that.
Literally. Then took it even further with the Acceleration Expansion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU8tS74nyic
FSX had a pretty poor reception in the flight sim community at the time, but this was all entirely based around its awful performance, which still isn't great even on modern hardware, not it's content. Which is why more people are shifting to Lockheed-Martin's Prepar3D. Basically, FSX, but fixed and updated for modern hardware. Being a Lockheed-Martin product, the default aircraft in that now are the F-22 and F-35.
Flight Sim is just a sandbox after all. No one in the flight sim community actually uses the default jets, it's all add-ons (and heavy jet airliners are by far and away the most popular category).
Despite being very VERY poorly coded, FSX still ended up being incredibly successful by the series standards.

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enamel said:
Nothing like the perspective of corporate executives to put a damper on things, eh? Unfortunately it is simply a numbers game to the execs, and from the numbers view DiRT Rally is not even in the same league as DiRT 3 and GRID.

From Steam Spy - Number of Owners:
DiRT 3 Complete1,014,450 (±23,501)
GRID 2780,864 (±20,628)
GRID583,248 (±17,835)
DiRT Showdown483,078 (±16,234)
DiRT Rally110,201 (±7,759)
That's because it's in early access. A lot of people will still be holding back from buying DiRT purely because they see it as an unfinished game. That'll soon change when it's out of EAx

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What's more, I also own all the other games even though I hardly cared about them. All from sales and bundles and stuff. Dirt Rally is the only one that cost everyone over EUR 20.

edit: besides, 110,000 isn't too shabby for early access

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Tomorrow (or today in Finland already) I'm going to watch some flying there: ;)


Btw if you're wondering, B is the start and A is the finish but I accidentally made them the wrong way in Google Maps haha

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I have to go to Rally Finland next year!! Have fun @Jepsertti 
Thanks, will do! :) This year one day there is enough after sleeping two nights in a car last year! If I remember, I'll try to get some pictures there but I can't guarantee them to be that great in quality because I'll take them with my phone if I took any (although my Galaxy Note 4 camera is quite great) :smiley: 

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enamel said:
Nothing like the perspective of corporate executives to put a damper on things, eh? Unfortunately it is simply a numbers game to the execs, and from the numbers view DiRT Rally is not even in the same league as DiRT 3 and GRID.

From Steam Spy - Number of Owners:
DiRT 3 Complete1,014,450 (±23,501)
GRID 2780,864 (±20,628)
GRID583,248 (±17,835)
DiRT Showdown483,078 (±16,234)
DiRT Rally110,201 (±7,759)
While the total sales /ownership for games such GRID 2 or Showdown is high, the numbers don't portray the thing that really matters: revenue.

Showdown was probably sold at an average price of $3 as part of a bundle or a sale. DiRT 3 was a big commercial success so it's numbers are a combination of real, good price sales and bundles/discount.

DiRT Rally easily outsold F1 2015 so far, despite being an Early Access title. It only had a brief period of a discount on Steam Sale, but the pickup of the title is still in progress.

There's appetite for such a game and if the execs can't see it.... Then they'll take this company to the ground...

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enamel said:
Nothing like the perspective of corporate executives to put a damper on things, eh? Unfortunately it is simply a numbers game to the execs, and from the numbers view DiRT Rally is not even in the same league as DiRT 3 and GRID.

From Steam Spy - Number of Owners:
DiRT 3 Complete1,014,450 (±23,501)
GRID 2780,864 (±20,628)
GRID583,248 (±17,835)
DiRT Showdown483,078 (±16,234)
DiRT Rally110,201 (±7,759)
That's because it's in early access. A lot of people will still be holding back from buying DiRT purely because they see it as an unfinished game. That'll soon change when it's out of EAx
Hmm, somewhat, but that's probably not a very big factor.
ARK: Survival Evolved is Early Access and in a considerably less finished state than DiRT Rally, but it knocked out nearly half a million sales during the Steam Summer Sale alone when it had just a 17% discount to £19 (DiRT Rally got a 10% discount).

When it comes to the other Codies games, price will be by far and away the biggest factor.
While DiRT Rally is still below the threshold of a retail game, it's not exactly been in Steam sales at a £5/15 price point the way those other, older games have (The DiRT 3 Complete figures will include those that upgraded from the previous, Games for Windows Live version. Like me!).

Those figures are about right for a game that hasn't has a proper discount Early Access or not.
In fact, they are pretty good for something a bit niche.
When it gets its first 40/50/60% discount, the numbers will jump significantly. That's Steam.

DiRT Rally easily outsold F1 2015 so far, despite being an Early Access title. It only had a brief period of a discount on Steam Sale, but the pickup of the title is still in progress.
That's an incredibly loaded statement and really needs to be expanded upon.
The poor state of the PC version of F1 2015 and the subsequent backlash needs to be factored in, as does DiRT Rally having been available for considerably longer.
Physical console sales alone (so not PC and not Xbox Live or Playstation Network digital sales) took F1 2015 to number one in the UK.
Total sales of F1 2015 are well in excess of DiRT Rally.

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DiRT Rally easily outsold F1 2015 so far, despite being an Early Access title. It only had a brief period of a discount on Steam Sale, but the pickup of the title is still in progress.
Well that's impressive, especially considering that over all platforms, F1 2015 took top spot in the UK sales charts... they'd be totally mad not to bring it to console

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Anyway.

https://twitter.com/dirtgame/status/626825602687893508

I'm sure the picture was from CMR2, but that is a DiRT Rally watermark stuck on it.
Not a generic Codemasters one, not Colin McRae Rally 2 or it's stripped down mobile/Steam re-make.
Not even just 'DiRT'

As I have already stated on Twitter, if that kind of tease doesn't lead to something, there will be blood shed.
Oh yes. Sticking the games logo on a photo of a car, of THIS car, and it then not ending up in the game.
Death and destruction will follow.

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BrySkye said:
Anyway.

https://twitter.com/dirtgame/status/626825602687893508

I'm sure the picture was from CMR2, but that is a DiRT Rally watermark stuck on it.
Not a generic Codemasters one, not Colin McRae Rally 2 or it's stripped down mobile/Steam re-make.

As I have already stated on Twitter, if that kind of tease doesn't lead to something, there will be blood shed.
Oh yes. Sticking the games logo on a photo of a car, of THIS car, and it then not ending up in the game.
Death and destruction will follow.
CMR2.0 proper remake, please? I remember the tweet was published twice by now and I hope it is a gossip material :smile: A hint for a CMR2.0 wished remake or the inclusion of the 1999 Focus WRC car :smile: 

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