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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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On 1/29/2020 at 9:02 AM, PJTierney said:

If you look through some blog posts on the matter (not just Codemasters, but Forza, GT etc.), a car can take upwards of 9 months to research, license and build from scratch, especially older ones for which CAD data isn't readily available from the manufacturer.

I don't know about you guys at CM, but I remember seeing some Forza promo where they have a big robot either laser scan or probe all over the surface of the car.

They still do opening doors, hoods, trunks, engine bays, some occasional hatches, the entire interior too though, and I'm assuming that's probably done mostly by hand, or maybe with some photogrammetry and retopology tools.

On 1/29/2020 at 9:07 AM, tbtstt said:

Me freak out about a Subaru @PJTierney? I think you must have me confused with someone else... :classic_biggrin:

I was watching Mighty Car Mods do a video on "Yaris Hilton" and Marty said they should've got a Subaru. Moog just reaches over the roof of the car and slaps him.

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Point clouds and such are great for dimensions, but ultimately the best reference data are the hundreds (sometimes thousands) of photos taken when the vehicle team get their hands on a car.

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16 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Point clouds and such are great for dimensions, but ultimately the best reference data are the hundreds (sometimes thousands) of photos taken when the vehicle team get their hands on a car.

True, this was demonstrated very well in DiRT Rally 1, the fingerprints on the dash type of details blew me away.  To bad compromises had to be made in DR2 for other features.   
 

i hope, someday when it’s feasible, the game engine can be overhauled or started over.   DR2 looks nice, but overall it’s showing it’s age.  It also seems to be at its limit with rally games (stage lengths).  There are certain interfaces in the series that have not changed since Dirt1, replay system are 1, and certain shaders tend to look wonky.

 

No mater, I look forward to the next title, each one HAS moved forward and gotten better.

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Not really gossip, but a cool little snippet from Petter Solberg on Facebook: 
 

PS: Nice mouse mat @gfRally:classic_laugh:

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20 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Factually false. Turn 10 scrapped everything and made from scratch for Forza 5 to match a new "standard" for the now current gen consoles. They may have kept some of the higher poly count Forza 4 cars, but there's a reason Forza 5 had 200 cars vs. Forza 4's 500, and Forza 7 has something like 700.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-06-why-forza-motorsport-5-has-less-cars-and-tracks-than-forza-4

I don't care about cars too much so I can't see it but forum is full of people who see old models (same bugs) in current games. So I am not sure and many old models looks pretty good now.

But it's something like you say. They used them but not fully. Still, it's pretty easy to build new game every year if you have almost all cars. Then it's not that hard sell new game with old content and make money on it.

CM could sell DR2 again for new consoles and DR3 could have all current cars with some polishing. Dirt 5 could have the same cars. So still DLC makes sense to me.

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2 hours ago, Johnnnn said:

I don't care about cars too much so I can't see it but forum is full of people who see old models (same bugs) in current games. So I am not sure and many old models looks pretty good now.

But it's something like you say. They used them but not fully. Still, it's pretty easy to build new game every year if you have almost all cars. Then it's not that hard sell new game with old content and make money on it.

CM could sell DR2 again for new consoles and DR3 could have all current cars with some polishing. Dirt 5 could have the same cars. So still DLC makes sense to me.

I have very little idea what you just said.

Forza 5 scrapped nearly everything from cars to tracks and started over. Anything that was close enough still got manually reworked. For Forza 6 and 7 they added more cars, tracks and features. They may or may not even do something similar with Forza 8 on the new console, after all they're taking a 3 year "break" between releases instead of the standard 2 they've done so far.

A new game is much easier to use a new engine with (But I somehow doubt they'll actually do that, even after acquiring both Slightly Mad and Evo Studios, both of which made their own much more impressive game engine. And even though the devs fairly consistently talk about the engine limitations.

But I guess keeping a game in 2006 and occasionally tossing some stuff at it is the norm for "sim racing" so it's pointless to try and argue anything different. Why expect a new game to actually fix issues, add new content and features when you could just... not and keep everything really old and outdated?

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6 hours ago, gfRally said:

True, this was demonstrated very well in DiRT Rally 1, the fingerprints on the dash type of details blew me away.  To bad compromises had to be made in DR2 for other features.   
 

i hope, someday when it’s feasible, the game engine can be overhauled or started over.   DR2 looks nice, but overall it’s showing it’s age.  It also seems to be at its limit with rally games (stage lengths).  There are certain interfaces in the series that have not changed since Dirt1, replay system are 1, and certain shaders tend to look wonky.

 

No mater, I look forward to the next title, each one HAS moved forward and gotten better.

The game engine is really starting to show its limits now, and I really hope any future sequel (at this point it will probably be for the next generation of consoles) will benefit from a massive overhaul in its basis. 

Longer stages and more flexibility to allow more weather/time of day variations are really needed to make the next game feel like a huge step up and, as we move towards more powerful machines, such an improvement will be expected by most buyers... 

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If all goes well, I'd expect to see a DR3 type title in 2021 Q4. We've got next gen consoles dropping at the end of this year, give devs about another year to really flesh out their games on the new platforms and we'll hopefully be getting a new engine in that timeframe too. The purchase of SMS by CM is perfect timing to get that team working on a new engine. They need to drop all support for current gen though, trying to even shoehorn it in will ruin anything they could achieve without it.

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One thing I want for next DR game : MORE STAGES PER RALLY!

I mean, we know that 1 long = 2 shorts, so why not add one more long so that we have 3 long and 9 shorts ?

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More stages per location, yes. I know many players will demand 50 locations but imo more stages per location would be preferable to having lots of locations with a mere 30km each. Which really is not all that much when you think of it.

Edited by HoksuHoo
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More KM = more development time = higher costs

at least I hope they continue with the current stages like they now did with DR2.0. So that all 12 locations return, but updated for the next game. And than with a few extra km and 2 more locations. 

it is difficult to say what the future will bring. As far as I know is that PJT mention once that things might come in future DiRT titles, with it conforming that one or more future DiRT title will come. 

one more thing that makes it interesting is the takeover off Slightly Mad Studios and for example possible future engine for graphics and physics. 

so far I prefer both with DR2.0, especially if you compare the rallycross between DR2.0 and PC2.

but Codemasters really need to step up. Just 8 players for an online session, which really needs to be minimal 16 if you want to be serious for online leagues. And that is just one of the things.

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1 hour ago, RookieOne said:

hard to say if they're more approachable. the thing with the Dirt games is that while it's not street racing, Toyota is still a WRC manufacturer.

also... I really hope the writer of that article is being sarcastic with that line about it being a low-key return while he's linking to a social media post which literally puts it in caps lock with exclamation marks.

image.png.25d17d48a8015c4b2cefc45058e2e18c.png

edit: meanwhile... lmao

image.png.d4841b40c12989797c453f207288154a.png

Edited by ianism
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8 hours ago, JorritVD said:

More KM = more development time = higher costs

at least I hope they continue with the current stages like they now did with DR2.0. So that all 12 locations return, but updated for the next game. And than with a few extra km and 2 more locations. 

You seem to be confusing a remaster and a new game. A slightly updated DR2.0 would be the former.

The idea with rally as opposed to circuit racing is that you don't memorize every millimeter of the stage but you rely on co-driver pacenotes. That's kind of why you'd want new stages, and a decent amount of unique stages, in a rally game because when you keep driving the same ones enough times then you start to know them from memory

Edited by HoksuHoo

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2 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

You seem to be confusing a remaster and a new game. A slightly updated DR2.0 would be the former.

The idea with rally as opposed to circuit racing is that you don't memorize every millimeter of the stage but you rely on co-driver pacenotes. That's kind of why you'd want new stages, and a decent amount of unique stages, in a rally game because when you keep driving the same ones enough times then you start to know them from memory

The thing is, you wouldn't want to throw all the work done in the last five years straight into the bin. 

As you wouldn't want to take the Col de Turini out of the Montecarlo route because they already used it last year

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most rallies take place on most of the same stages every year. 

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The rally stages we have in DR2 are the best modelled rally stages that have existed in games IMO, it would be a huge shame if they were to be thrown away for whatever the next 'proper' title is (I get the impression the next game will be Dirt 'Horizon' unfortunately).

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Just now, RodgerDavies said:

I get the impression the next game will be Dirt 'Horizon'

DiRTza?

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2 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

DiRTza?

Need for DiRT

Unless all those accolades for Crash Team Racing means the next game is bobble-head avatars of Codemasters staff racing nitro-boosted cross-karts. In that case, I'm all in.

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27 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

Unless all those accolades for Crash Team Racing means the next game is bobble-head avatars of Codemasters staff racing nitro-boosted cross-karts.

 

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36 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

I get the impression the next game will be Dirt 'Horizon' unfortunately

Really? Based on what info? If DiRT 5 is like that but we still get a DiRT Rally 3 then that wouldn’t be so bad...

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1 hour ago, RodgerDavies said:

I get the impression the next game will be Dirt 'Horizon' unfortunately.

What do you mean? Horizons are the best games ever built 😄 Probably nobody is able to build it easily now. I would like to have competition but you would need a lot of money and great and big team.

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1 hour ago, Johnnnn said:

What do you mean? Horizons are the best games ever built 😄 Probably nobody is able to build it easily now. I would like to have competition but you would need a lot of money and great and big team.

a) not if you're not into that sort of thing they're not

b) I don't mean an exact replica, I mean that... 'more relaxed' style

 

 

1 hour ago, Jack4688 said:

Really? Based on what info? If DiRT 5 is like that but we still get a DiRT Rally 3 then that wouldn’t be so bad...

Oh, based on nothing concrete, just gut feel - I don't think it will be a direct Dirt Rally continuation. Anyway, I suspect whatever it is is a while away and I have plenty of DR2 to enjoy in the meantime!

 

 

1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

 

Wow.

I thought I'd seen it all.

I was wrong.

So yeah, basically, this, but the various Codemasters studios for tracks and obviously you, Jon, Ross and @urgaffel characters. No urgaffel no buy...

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7 minutes ago, RodgerDavies said:

a) not if you're not into that sort of thing they're not

b) I don't mean an exact replica, I mean that... 'more relaxed' style

You mean great cars and racing? 😄 Dirt there is very funny and I like DR much more. But overall it's sooo good. If you don't use AWD at all, the physics are very similar to Motorsport. I don't say Motorsport is the best but for controller it's good enough.

More relaxed style would be a big fail. DR2 has great physics and we can see how relaxed physics feels in Dirt 4. Next DR should be for skilled players and Dirt for everybody else.

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