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PJTierney

 

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The only explanation for missing i20 r5 could be high licence fee!? if you look at prices, most Cars for DR 2.0 1,39 Euro at PS Eu store, but the Dirt 4 Hyundai i 20 is 2.49 Euro

the i20 RX could be less costing, as promotion or the official RX deal that CM have.. (but still i am not convinced, that this Car will come to DR 2.0, more likely for Next Game)

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1 hour ago, dani211212 said:

but still i am not convinced, that this Car will come to DR 2.0

I am not convinced either... but I am keeping my fingers crossed! 

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1 minute ago, James McAdam said:

I still dream about it but I think the flat out pack is the last DLC we will have. :classic_sad: 

Well PJ did say that there might be other "small" updates. If the Hyundai is going to happen though, I assume it will follow the Flat Out pack?

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well even if it is the last DLC we will know a new Dirt game will be starting being made shortly after. so we will always be Dirty. :classic_biggrin:

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2 hours ago, dgeesi0 said:

well even if it is the last DLC we will know a new Dirt game will be starting being made shortly after. so we will always be Dirty. :classic_biggrin:

and there will be loads of questions to be asked!

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who knows? PJ isn't even making hinting winky faces, so I am sceptical haha

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WRC is for boys. Group B was for men 🙂

Edited by koog2003

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1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

WRC is for boys. Group B was for men 🙂

I am disappointed to see anyone on this forum repeating this stupid statement. I expect the posters here to know better. 

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12 hours ago, tbtstt said:

I am disappointed to see anyone on this forum repeating this stupid statement. I expect the posters here to know better. 

You should tell Juha Kankkunen 4 times World Rally Champion that he says stupid things. You play video games, he raced a 500 hp rally car in the 80s and 90s. 
You know better for sure dude

Read a bit sometimes: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juha_Kankkunen
 

 

Edited by koog2003
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1 hour ago, koog2003 said:

You should tell Juha Kankkunen 4 times World Rally Champion that he says stupid things.

I know Kankkunen is credited with the line (and I am well aware of his career) but, as brilliant a driver as he was, the statement is daft and I am tired of seeing it repeated ad nauseam on forums and social media, when it is utterly nonsensical.

Group B was an incredible time for car development, but that "...Group B for men" line is ignorant of pretty much everything that has gone before and come after Group B. Group A cars were beating Group B stage times just a few years after the banning of Group B and the current crop of cars would run rings around any period Group B machinery. The current driver stable is as talented and committed as those of any era and to promote the idea that they are not is both harmful to the sport and disrespectful to those competing now.

What annoys me more is that, instead of remembering the incredible legacy of Group B for what it was, its memory is being tainted by this distorted rose-tinted view and misguided belief that rally never has - and never can be - as good again (and this opinion is frequently held by people who weren't even old enough to see a Group B car in action). 

Oh, and if Group B was "just for men", how does Michelle Mouton fit in?

Edited by tbtstt
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On 2/29/2020 at 10:52 AM, tbtstt said:

Oh, and if Group B was "just for men", how does Michelle Mouton fit in?

Nobody said that modern rally drivers are ___ compared to what Group B drivers were.

The fact is simple here and this is the reason of the statement of Kankkunen at the time:

Driving a Group B car was madness. They were extremely difficult to drive and surely not something for everybody. On top of it Group B cars were the most dangerous and the technology gap with the modern rally cars is immense. 

I am sure what Kankkunen wanted to say it is simply that modern rally cars are A LOT easier to handle because of the tremendous better technology they have.
Basically It all translates to Group B is for fearless and insanely skillful drivers while modern WRC cars are a lot, a damn lot, easier to drive and it takes less skills (and guts) to drive them.   

 

Quote

and this opinion is frequently held by people who weren't even old enough to see a Group B car in action

I am class 1975. I was 12/13 when Kankkunen was racing. Even though I am old enough I have never seen a Group B rally with my eyes I admit it but I saw hours and hours of videos. Only playing with a Group B car in Dirt Rally 2.0 it is hard enough to show the gap with modern rally cars. 

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On 2/29/2020 at 11:42 AM, koog2003 said:

Nobody said that modern rally drivers are ___ compared to what Group B drivers were.

Although you may not think it, I believe that, based on the way I see the "Group B for men..." quote utilized on social media, that is exactly what people think when they use that line (hence why seeing it on this forum irked me so much). 

On 2/29/2020 at 11:42 AM, koog2003 said:

Driving a Group B car was madness. They were extremely difficult to drive and surely not something for everybody. On top of it Group B cars were the most dangerous and the technology gap with the modern rally cars is immense. 

Were Group B cars dangerous and difficult to drive? Absolutely...

On 2/29/2020 at 11:42 AM, koog2003 said:

I am sure what Kankkunen wanted to say it is simply that modern rally cars are A LOT easier to handle because of the tremendous better technology they have.
Basically It all translates to Group B is for fearless and insanely skillful drivers while modern WRC cars are a lot, a damn lot, easier to drive and it takes less skills (and guts) to drive them.   

...are modern WRCars a LOT easier to drive? I think it is fair to say that they are more accessible/usable in amateur hands, but to win at the top level I don't believe they require any less skill than the Group B cars did. Has the skill set required to win at the top level changed? I think so and I would say that modern events are very different to those in the 80's. But look at what is expected of the modern driver versus those in Group B (and earlier). A successful Group B era driver would struggle now in the same way that an existing WRC driver would no doubt struggle back then. And look at how close the events are now. Wins are decided by seconds, not minutes. There is little margin for error and the cars continue to get quicker. 

Juha made that statement what, 20 years ago? Even if you say the early WRCars were that much easier, look at where we are now. And yet, with the increased speed and precision of the current WRCars at the top level, that "Group B for men..." quote is still being used. 

Like I say - and of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion - I think the statement is incredibly unfair on the modern cars and hugely disrespectful to the drivers that have followed. I have a huge love for Group B for the change it bought to rally (and rallycross), but it seems to have been elevated to an almost mythical status in the eyes of some and there are more to both disciplines than just one era. 

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People like to quote famous people but just because they are/were champs it doesn't mean their words make always sense. Often quotes are not even accurate or the meaning gets 'hijacked' and the original real quote gets lost. Most used and misunderstood quote has to be the famous Senna quote 'If you no longer go for a gap that exists you're no longer a racing driver'. For many people this is the legitimation to basically divebomb everywhere, but Senna admitted 1 year after that interview with Jackie Stewart for some spiritual reasons that he lied. He took Prost out on purpose to secure his championship so basically there really isn't anything heroic about this quote, on the contrary. 

'Group B was for men' is just a complacent and arrogant line. Nothing more. Röhrl said and still says the same. The guy left Audi back then because they started building 4 cylinder cars for DTM. Hard to beat such stubbornness ^^ 

I've said this before, every generation uses what is available at the respective time. If Kankkunen and Röhrl would've had the choice to use better and more modern technology for their cars they wouldn't have declined the idea for sure. People like to romanticise things later on but the Group B era was terrible. The cars were absolute beasts but many people died, I think we shouldn't forget that. 

I believe that later champs would've been just as fast as Kankkunen if they had emerged in the Group B era. 

 

Edited by richie
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2 hours ago, tbtstt said:

 

Were Group B cars dangerous and difficult to drive? Absolutely...

...are modern WRCars a LOT easier to drive? I think it is fair to say that they are more accessible/usable in amateur hands, but to win at the top level I don't believe they require any less skill than the Group B cars did. Has the skill set required to win at the top level changed? I think so and I would say that modern events are very different to those in the 80's. But look at what is expected of the modern driver versus those in Group B (and earlier). A successful Group B era driver would struggle now in the same way that an existing WRC driver would no doubt struggle back then. And look at how close the events are now. Wins are decided by seconds, not minutes. There is little margin for error and the cars continue to get quicker. 

 

The gap between Henri Toivonen and Timo Salonen, first and second place in the 1986 Montecarlo Rally, was 4 minutes and 4 seconds. Third place Hannu Mikkola 3 minutes further behind. 

2020 Montecarlo Rally, Neuville won by 12.6 seconds over Ogier, who edged out Evans by 1.7 seconds. 

The new WRCars may not be as raw as the Gr.B, but they require so much more precision and pure speed to win a rally that I don't think they're easier. They require different skills 

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Grp. B were brutal cars, very overpowered compared to the (at that time) suspension and tires.

For rallys we know what it led to, and afterwards we can say it was to be expected. Also easy to understand was that after they were banned from rally the FIA sort of over reacted wirh the next generation of rally cars with low engine power.

For me grp. B is more the memory of some glory years in rallycross as the cars were a perfect match with this sport.

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9 hours ago, tbtstt said:

Although you may not think it, I believe that, based on the way I see the "Group B for men..." quote utilized on social media, that is exactly what people think when they use that line (hence why seeing it on this forum irked me so much). 

...what about Pikes Peak on Dirt for men, tarmac for boys? Except maybe some of the ridiculous cars like that VW thing. There were some pretty nuts times going on when it was all dirt.

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Born in 69 so I saw Group B come through. I remember going to Chatsworth loads of years. There was a long straight with a hairpin and we thought there was no way Salonen would be able to stop his 205 in 84 with the speed he had but he did it. And the sight of Mikkola's head jolting back under acceleration in the S1 Audi was amazing. Loved the days before as well with the Chevettes, Mantas, Talbots etc. And the sound of the Stratos echoing through Clipstone forest. Wonderful. The current WRC cars are no less exciting though, the footage from last year's Finnish rally is jaw dropping. Each era has it's rose tinted views but still the driver's got the best out of their machines.  

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36 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

 

I have resisted watching that: I am waiting for the full feature tonight! 

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17 hours ago, JZStudios said:

...what about Pikes Peak on Dirt for men, tarmac for boys? Except maybe some of the ridiculous cars like that VW thing. There were some pretty nuts times going on when it was all dirt.

I think Pikes Peak is an interesting one to discuss. I have seen some drivers comment that Pikes Peak is actually more difficult now it is completely paved, as the road is much narrower (and hasmuch less room for error) than the dirt route did...

...that said, I personally find the mixed surface Pikes Peak runs the most impressive to watch. 

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31 minutes ago, tbtstt said:

I think Pikes Peak is an interesting one to discuss. I have seen some drivers comment that Pikes Peak is actually more difficult now it is completely paved, as the road is much narrower (and hasmuch less room for error) than the dirt route did...

It's also faster and the cars are getting better at maintaining speed at high altitude (through electrification).

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Guys, tell me is there a option to select just 1 or 2 specific cars for the clubs in DR 2.0? I remember the option was in DR 1 but i don't see the possibility to select that. @PJTierney And is there a chance that a option like this will be added?

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