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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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14 minutes ago, JorritVD said:

Interestingly the DiRT logo is gone now completely from the page, which could mean my theory about the the logo was the new franchise logo is correct. 

 

It's like a transition, from one DIRT to another, maybe ūüėȬ†

 

Clearing the decks and giving "New DIRT" some space to breathe, before bringing DR2 back to share the space once things calm down ūüôā¬†

 

You may have noticed the YouTube channel got a cleanup too:

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I've been directed here, by PJ himself, because I'm wondering if any of you could give me performance tips. My card is a RTX 2070 Super, paired with an i7-9700K. However, despite playing on High, with crowds on Low and Screenspace Reflections off, I'm still getting places with as much as an 80% drop in framerate. Any suggestions?

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Posted (edited)

I just hope for the new DiRT game is innovative in some areas, like using older stages from Colin McRae rally games , for the Rally locations in the new game.

Or even the return of Trailblazer and Raid Rally

But the same handling as DR2.0 refined , even as an option

 

Edited by m260602
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Thierry97 said:

@gk9147Will be presented this Thursday then ???

I think yes , or maybe you  want wait 1 more year:classic_laugh: , honestly  i think  the game come this September or later this year 

Edited by gk9147
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, warpengage said:

I've been directed here, by PJ himself, because I'm wondering if any of you could give me performance tips. My card is a RTX 2070 Super, paired with an i7-9700K. However, despite playing on High, with crowds on Low and Screenspace Reflections off, I'm still getting places with as much as an 80% drop in framerate. Any suggestions?

Sounds like throttling in some locations of the stage? Any specific ones you can point to for us where it always happens, or any common trend you notice like "specifically going from an open area into a heavily wooded forest part of the stage" or "always after turn X in location Y" so we can see if something jumps out to us?

I've seen AO cause massive frame drops for absolutely no obvious reason - case in point the "frame drop bridge" in Scotland. Turn AO off or to low, completely fixes the problem. Only happens in Scotland too. My common suggestions are always -

  • motion blur - off
  • crowds - low
  • AO - low
  • Screen Space - low/off
  • Ground cover - low/medium
  • Shadows - medium

I've also seen it be a GPU¬†software¬†issue. If you don't run custom fan profiles weird thermal things can happen. A¬†buddy of mine will see his GPU just choke on itself once it hits like 60¬įC if he doesn't have the custom fan profile running. Basically he hit that perfect window between when the GPU fans would ramp up to increase cooling¬†and where the GPU throttles itself until it can cool off a bit. GPU would throttle just enough to not force fans to increase from the default 30% to the next "step" at 50% fanspeed. Worth looking at your fan profile curve.

Edited by Mike Dee
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4 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

Sounds like throttling in some locations of the stage? Any specific ones you can point to for us where it always happens, or any common trend you notice like "specifically going from an open area into a heavily wooded forest part of the stage" or "always after turn X in location Y" so we can see if something jumps out to us?

I've seen AO cause massive frame drops for absolutely no obvious reason - case in point the "frame drop bridge" in Scotland. Turn AO off or to low, completely fixes the problem. Only happens in Scotland too. My common suggestions are always -

  • motion blur - off
  • crowds - low
  • AO - low
  • Screen Space - low/off
  • Ground cover - low/medium
  • Shadows - medium

I've also seen it be a GPU¬†software¬†issue. If you don't run custom fan profiles weird thermal things can happen. A¬†buddy of mine will see his GPU just choke on itself once it hits like 60¬įC if he doesn't have the custom fan profile running. Basically he hit that perfect window between when the GPU fans would ramp up to increase cooling¬†and where the GPU throttles itself until it can cool off a bit. GPU would throttle just enough to not force fans to increase from the default 30% to the next "step" at 50% fanspeed. Worth looking at your fan profile curve.

AO as in Ambient Occlusion? Regular Ambient Occlusion, not the Advanced one?

That sounds like way too much of a graphical downgrade for my kind of system, which is unfortunate.

As for a few specific locations where the drops always happen:

- Col de Turini at the top.

- Argentina when you go into the rocks where there's a lot of people watching.

- Borysik stage in Poland, especially at night, when you go around the hay bales and the house, shortly after the start.

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2 minutes ago, warpengage said:

AO as in Ambient Occlusion? Regular Ambient Occlusion, not the Advanced one?

Correct. I know it sounds like a downgrade, it is, but it's the only thing I've found that will fix the frame drop bridge in Scotland. I get 90-110fps on average for my 3440x1440p monitor. In Scotland, I would drop into the 20-30fps range crossing that bridge. I gave up the AO for the stability. It's worth trying to just verify if it does help/hurt.

What you describe is interesting as for the locations. Initially I say it's the crowds, top of Monte and Argentina hairpins are terrible due to those. The Poland one throws me off though, not sure how many people/crowds are right there. Let me do some stuff real quick as I finish up some work virtual meetings, but I'll try to boot those up and see if anything jumps out at me

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16 minutes ago, Mike Dee said:

Correct. I know it sounds like a downgrade, it is, but it's the only thing I've found that will fix the frame drop bridge in Scotland. I get 90-110fps on average for my 3440x1440p monitor. In Scotland, I would drop into the 20-30fps range crossing that bridge. I gave up the AO for the stability. It's worth trying to just verify if it does help/hurt.

What you describe is interesting as for the locations. Initially I say it's the crowds, top of Monte and Argentina hairpins are terrible due to those. The Poland one throws me off though, not sure how many people/crowds are right there. Let me do some stuff real quick as I finish up some work virtual meetings, but I'll try to boot those up and see if anything jumps out at me

Well, turning off the crowds does boost the FPS significantly. I was hoping not to turn them off entirely because the stages look a bit lifeless without them. But looks like that's what I might have to settle with. It's a shame with a card that should, in theory, eat this game for breakfast.

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41 minutes ago, warpengage said:

Well, turning off the crowds does boost the FPS significantly. I was hoping not to turn them off entirely because the stages look a bit lifeless without them. But looks like that's what I might have to settle with. It's a shame with a card that should, in theory, eat this game for breakfast.

You shouldn't have to turn them off completely; low should be good enough and is actually better because off does not remove the crowds, it just stops rendering them - they can still be hit for penalties...

Maybe open up your Nvidia Control Panel and go into global 3D settings. Check to see if you might have anything overriding the game settings in there which might trigger the frame drops too.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, m260602 said:

I just hope for the new DiRT game is innovative in some areas, like using older stages from Colin McRae rally games , for the Rally locations in the new game.

Or even the return of Trailblazer and Raid Rally

But the same handling as DR2.0 refined , even as an option

agree with everything but the end.

if it's not a "dirt rally" game, I would not expect it to have the same handling. they have split the series into an arcadey section and sim section, also, to make something that crosses that divide is not a great idea. they tried that in dirt 4 and it didn't go so well with the fans, even though it was very well received by critics and it does many things better than every other game in the series.

Edited by ianism
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2 hours ago, ianism said:

agree with everything but the end.

if it's not a "dirt rally" game, I would not expect it to have the same handling. they have split the series into an arcadey section and sim section, also, to make something that crosses that divide is not a great idea. they tried that in dirt 4 and it didn't go so well with the fans, even though it was very well received by critics and it does many things better than every other game in the series.

Must disagree. Why would you want a game with inferior handling?

Keeping DR2.0's handling, as just an option, would mean more new stages for us all to try out. The pizzazz of the game's front-end could be fun on top. But it would be no fun at all with dumbed-down handling as the only option.

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Posted (edited)

 

People need to understand that DiRT, is not DiRT Rally.  They are separate approaches to racing, one is more fun and authentic, it's about the overall entertainment, whilst the other is more serious and sim-like, more about the experience.

Edited by F2CMaDMaXX
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There is no confusing Dirt with Dirt Rally

You are making a logical error.

"Dirt 5 with DR handling" =/= "There will be no Dirt Rally"

Dirt 4 used Dirt Rally 1's handling (and actually improved it), only they messed with the car setups to force them to handle 'neutral'. It backfired.

DR2.0's handling is universally acclaimed. Dirt 5 simply needs to make more assists available, perhaps by default. There is no reduction in 'fun and overall entertainment' doing that.

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3 hours ago, ianism said:

if it's not a "dirt rally" game, I would not expect it to have the same handling. they have split the series into an arcadey section and sim section, also, to make something that crosses that divide is not a great idea. they tried that in dirt 4 and it didn't go so well with the fans, even though it was very well received by critics and it does many things better than every other game in the series.

D4 tried to have 2 handling modes, and that was a mistake. They should've refined 1, whichever it happened to be.

 

56 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

Must disagree. Why would you want a game with inferior handling?

Keeping DR2.0's handling, as just an option, would mean more new stages for us all to try out. The pizzazz of the game's front-end could be fun on top. But it would be no fun at all with dumbed-down handling as the only option.

Must disagree. Driver games aren't exceptionally "realistic," but they are tons of fun to drive around in and feel great.

 

6 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

DR2.0's handling is universally acclaimed. Dirt 5 simply needs to make more assists available, perhaps by default. There is no reduction in 'fun and overall entertainment' doing that.

Is it though? I seem to recall a bunch of people criticising it. Granted yes, it's much better than DR1's other than my throttle control not working at all.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jake Cushing said:

Must disagree. Why would you want a game with inferior handling?

Keeping DR2.0's handling, as just an option, would mean more new stages for us all to try out. The pizzazz of the game's front-end could be fun on top. But it would be no fun at all with dumbed-down handling as the only option.

well, first off, I really like arcade racing games. DR2 is the only sim-type game I've really played a lot of. I came to the Dirt series through Dirt 2 and 3 (I got them in 2013) and I grew up playing 1990s NFS and early 2000s Midnight Club, not Gran Turismo. in the past year my most played game after DR2 is the CTR remake.

second, I was just saying that since the series has been split in two it is not necessary to have two handling models in the Dirt games to appeal to the more hardcore players, since that will likely take resources away from other things. this seems to have been the case in Dirt 4, a game I really like but most hardcore players hate.

but yeah, if it's easy to implement the exact DR2 handling model into D5 (or whatever it's called) and improve the tarmac handling a little, then sure, go for it.

Edited by ianism
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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Must disagree. Driver games aren't exceptionally "realistic," but they are tons of fun to drive around in and feel great.

There's a point being missed here:

Why deprive ourselves of entire new rally stages with DR2.0 handling?

You'd really want that, just to have a new arcade game? I seriously doubt that sentiment would last after a few days' play. If arcade driving was what you wanted, there are a ton of those games around.

25 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

Is it though? I seem to recall a bunch of people criticising it. Granted yes, it's much better than DR1's other than my throttle control not working at al

Have a look at the reviews for DR2.0

The handling is universally acclaimed. Yes, there are people on this forum who have issues with tarmac - and that is mostly with one track, Spain.

There is no question Codies have struck gold with 2.0's handling. None of the preceding arguments are to say it couldn't be refined further.

 

Edited by Jake Cushing

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3 hours ago, Jake Cushing said:

There is no confusing Dirt with Dirt Rally

You are making a logical error.

"Dirt 5 with DR handling" =/= "There will be no Dirt Rally"

Dirt 4 used Dirt Rally 1's handling (and actually improved it), only they messed with the car setups to force them to handle 'neutral'. It backfired.

DR2.0's handling is universally acclaimed. Dirt 5 simply needs to make more assists available, perhaps by default. There is no reduction in 'fun and overall entertainment' doing that.

You're not taking into account that the handling isn't the only defining point between DiRT and DiRT Rally - that was my point, and why i said there is confusion.

 

Having two handling models in the same game is a nightmare from a

standpoint, and from a gameplay standpoint.  As simple as it might sound, it's not, and i'd wager you think it's simple to the user too?  it really isn't, believe it or not.

Dirt 5 with DR handling would NOT be good, it would be a game that doesn't work.  Again, DiRT is not a serious rally game, as i said, it is designed to be fun with authentic handling, easy to pick up for anyone.

DiRT Rally was designed with the people who had the extra time, the extra interest, the ones who take driving more seriously, it removed the superficial fluff, and made the car handling way deeper and realistic.  Added what it was to actually stage rally, not Ken block it for the weekend.  There were cool things in D4, that after a while, got in the way of rallying.  Notice the design styles of DR & DR2, Vs. DiRT 3 & 4.

Speaking of superficial, the D4 handling (Sim) was only better at first glance, some things improved, but after a while, you could shoot it full of holes, i'm guilty of not having enough time before release to see the big issues it had, especially with RWD (i didn't test it prior to release)

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I think another issue is the stages themselves. Dirt 2/3’s stages were very open and forgiving and suited the handling of the cars, whereas that handling wouldn’t work as well on dirt rally’s stages. I feel if you have arcade handling you need arcade stages, and vice versa.

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Posted (edited)

How well did V-Rally 4 do? Arcade game, arcade handling, arcade stages. 

Sank without a trace. 

DR 2.0's handling is a massive asset for Codies. Makes no sense to junk it for Dirt 5. Just add more default assists. 

The market for rally games has matured. And it would be crazy for us to advocate for less great, believable handling, instead of more. 

 

Edited by Jake Cushing

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1 minute ago, Jake Cushing said:

How well did V-Rally 4 do? Arcade game, arcade handling, arcade stages. 

Sank without a trace. 

I don't think V-Rally 4 was bad due to being an arcade game. It's the overal concept that was bad. 

Forza, The Crew, NFS Heat, DiRT 2 are also examples of arcade games, but they go much better.

1 minute ago, Jake Cushing said:

DR 2.0's handling is a massive asset for Codies. Makes no sense to junk it for Dirt 5. Just add more default assists. 

Even more assists, like what? I not want forced default assists that can't be turned off. 

1 minute ago, Jake Cushing said:

The market for rally games has matured. And it would be crazy for us to advocate for less great, believable handling, instead of more. 

Not really sure. I think a DIRT 2/3 kinda game can work. But those games were also a success due to Ken Block. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, JorritVD said:

Even more assists, like what? I not want forced default assists that can't be turned off. 

 

No no no, nono-no-no, definitely switch-off assists. Magic braking assistance could be one.  

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Let me put this another, simpler way:

You do not need to dumb down Dirt to differentiate it from Dirt Rally

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If you look back through recent titles, it is possible to have a more casual-friendly game with a decent handling model. GRID is a good example, cars are fun to drive and push hard in that, even with all the assists off.

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2 minutes ago, Jake Cushing said:

Let me put this another, simpler way:

You do not need to dumb down Dirt to differentiate it from Dirt Rally

It‚Äôs not dumbing it down, the series has always been an arcade game. It was only the spin off ‚ÄėRally‚Äô titles that have been simulation (and kind of dirt 4). What is wrong with having two different studios making different games? That‚Äôs what forza does

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