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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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19 minutes ago, Benniz said:

Will we receive the R5 at some point even though we forgot to join the world series?

It'll be available in modes where you don't have to "own" the car, like Time Trial.

In early 2021 it'll be buyable in My Team.

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Hopefully the Fiesta won't be the kind of obvious class-topper car like the BMW M2 is. R5 is the one class that is quite well balanced with several equally competitive options whereas just about any other has one or two obvious picks that you choose if you want to be as fast as you possibly can.

I also hope it will feel genuinely different from the current Fiesta, so it  will bring something actually new to the game. Instead of feeling like a purely visual update, or worse, a direct upgrade over the older Fiesta. Wouldn't want that.

Hoping it's a cool car though. Also the M-Sport WRC-2 livery looks seriously awesome so the car should look fantastic after some kind modder makes the skin

M-Sport-Ford-WRT2_55e39_x_0x0.jpgFord-MSport-WRT2_2_dbea5_f_1400x788.jpg

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I haven't driven it yet so I don't know what it's like pace-wise. In theory it should be faster than the original Fiesta, but I guess we'll find out if it can challenge the VW Polo on tarmac.

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17 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

I haven't driven it yet so I don't know what it's like pace-wise. In theory it should be faster than the original Fiesta, but I guess we'll find out if it can challenge the VW Polo on tarmac.

Its cool and all if the car is as close to reality as possible but since R5 probably is one of the 2 (?) classes thats somewhat balanced it would suck if a "c4" or a "lancia" got added.

Edited by somethingthing
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In theory Evo VI should run rings around the Integrale, which was a brutally dominant car in the late 80s and early 90s but would have been long obsolete during the twilight years of GrA spec in top level rallying. Not quite like that in DR2.0, however.

Also one detail I truly hope devs will get right is the display. You know the one that is constantly in view for those of us who play in cockpit view and which contains important information regarding the car. It should look like this:

Ford-Fiesta-R5-2019-13.jpg

White text on black background. You know, high contrast that makes it easy to see without taking your eyes off the road for an extended period. NOT the bizarrely low-contrast black text on dark teal background as in the current Fiesta R5.

Oh and the speedometer should be in kilometers per hour, as you can quite clearly see in this photo, not mph. How about making this the one and only car in DR2.0 with correct units in a digital speedometer?

Edited by HoksuHoo

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4 minutes ago, HoksuHoo said:

In theory Evo VI should run rings around the Integrale, which was a brutally dominant car in the late 80s and early 90s but would have been long obsolete during the twilight years of GrA spec in top level rallying. Not quite like that in DR2.0, however.

Also one detail I truly hope devs will get right is the display. You know the one that is constantly in view for those of use who play in cockpit view and which contains important information regarding the car. It should look like this:

Ford-Fiesta-R5-2019-13.jpg

White text on black background. You know, high contrast that makes it easy to see without taking your eyes off the road for an extended period. NOT the bizarrely low-contrast black text on dark teal background as in the current Fiesta R5.

Oh and the speedometer should be in kilometers per hour, as you can quite clearly see in this photo, not mph. How about making this the one and only car in DR2.0 with correct units in a digital speedometer?

Since its digital shouldnt it be possible to easily change between kph and mph?

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1 hour ago, HoksuHoo said:

In theory Evo VI should run rings around the Integrale, which was a brutally dominant car in the late 80s and still highly successful during early 90s (the latter with considerable upgrades over the 1988 spec that is in the game) but would have been long obsolete during the twilight years of GrA spec in top level rallying. Not quite like that in DR2.0, however.

Also one detail I truly hope devs will get right is the display. You know the one that is constantly in view for those of us who play in cockpit view and which contains important information regarding the car. It should look like this:

Ford-Fiesta-R5-2019-13.jpg

White text on black background. You know, high contrast that makes it easy to see without taking your eyes off the road for an extended period. NOT the bizarrely low-contrast black text on dark teal background as in the current Fiesta R5.

Oh and the speedometer should be in kilometers per hour, as you can quite clearly see in this photo, not mph. How about making this the one and only car in DR2.0 with correct units in a digital speedometer?

You're right about the points you're making but the digidash should be neither the one in game or the one in your image; they are both road mode digidashes. In stage mode the digidash is basically just a simple gear display as seen here: 

 

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30 minutes ago, Jepsertti said:

You're right about the points you're making but the digidash should be neither the one in game or the one in your image; they are both road mode digidashes. In stage mode the digidash is basically just a simple gear display as seen here: 

 

This is the one we have in the game, the car in "Stage Mode".

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4 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Expect a release date for that soon.

Splendid, can't wait to get my hands on the new Fiesta!

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50 minutes ago, tbtstt said:

Splendid, can't wait to get my hands on the new Fiesta!

You might get your eyeballs on it before then 😉 

 

 

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9 hours ago, RodgerDavies said:

a) no it doesn't - I hardly play it (I miss rolling starts and the AI is quite poor compared to ACC and Raceroom) but it's a great platform

That by definition means it's not that great and is held up by mods. "It doesn't suck, it's just not as good as anything else."

I also find it interesting that everything they said was impossible (like night time and multiple light sources) was implemented by modders in an engine created by the devs.

9 hours ago, RodgerDavies said:

b) the devs didn't get "all butthurt about [mods] and banned from their forum", they had opportunities to work with manufacturers (ie Porsche) that wouldn't work with them unless they stopped actively encouraging modding unlicenced content - the deals and packs they made allowed them to extend support for the game long after it would have done otherwise

I'll see if I can find it, but Lord Kunos himself said they shut down the mod section because people were "inflating their ego" and not releasing finished products. I'd call that butthurt when you add on top the fact that the largest modders were continually on the verge of being banned for calling AC out for being poor. There was no mention of removing mods to further include support from manufacturers until later, probably as a cover up due to backlash.

9 hours ago, RodgerDavies said:

c) aren't mods a perfectly good reason for a game to be alive? It has so much rich content that wouldn't be commercially viable and it's still the most played racing game on Steam stats

Kind of plays back into the first point. The game is only alive because of mods, just like RBR. That in itself is fine, but if you want "hardcore simulator" you have to deal with the inherent limitations of the game itself and the whims of the mod creator. They might have to just make up numbers because they don't have all the details, or maybe they just don't know what they're doing. And most mod tracks look terrible. Then again, so do most base Kunos tracks.

 

8 hours ago, PJTierney said:

Chris' video isn't specifically about Assetto Corsa, moreso the tools that content creators would like to have in order to be able to make more engaging/cinematic videos.

I agree with him in that some of those tools would be very useful, especially a controllable "free cam" in Replays 🙂 

How all that works and ensures oddities like collision detection and the like are dealt with, I'm not a game designer so I don't know 🙂 

Oh. I honestly didn't watch the video. After watching the video, I'm pretty sure it's something modded in with the content manager and shader patch thing.

There probably isn't any collision detection, but in most games they just assign a simple spherical collision box to the camera.

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2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

Kind of plays back into the first point. The game is only alive because of mods, just like RBR. That in itself is fine, but if you want "hardcore simulator" you have to deal with the inherent limitations of the game itself and the whims of the mod creator. They might have to just make up numbers because they don't have all the details, or maybe they just don't know what they're doing. 

In games with little or no modding you have to deal with the whims of the developers. Who might make up the numbers because they don't have all the details, or maybe they just don't know what they're doing, or maybe they are just incredibly sloppy and careless. Official content as opposed to an unofficial mod does not inherently guarantee it's of super high quality and accuracy, there are various games with official licensed content I wouldn't bother downloading as grid fillers for singleplayer racing in AC.

As for details, let me tell you, one does not have to be a god-tier AC car modder like Pessio or a3dr let alone ancient elder god-tier modder like RSS to get the correct amount of gears for Ford Focus WRC 2007, or to know that BMW M1 is mid-engined, or that Renault 5 Turbo has a H-pattern manual gearbox, or how an interior of a certain car looks like, because you can find out such things in seconds by googling. Or to understand rudimentary stuff regarding cars such as how windshield wipers work. And yet professional developers working for Codemasters managed to get them wrong for their official content. You need to get the basics right before you can even go to details. Can't do quantum physics if you can't do grade school math sort of thing. So imagine how detailed and accurate the numbers are in a car that doesn't even have the correct gearbox.

With AC modding there are all kinds of mods available. Some of the stuff is vastly better quality that you can find in the majority of racing games. Like, tracks that are more accurate than in F1 series, cars that are more accurate and detailed than cars in DR2.0. And there are huge amounts of complete trash, like three billion 1-minute Forza rip with physics copy-pasted from a random Kunos car that doesn't even remotely resemble that car, and a collision model lightyears off the mark. The trick is to separate the wheat from the chaff, to learn how to figure out which mods are top quality and which are trash. I can understand that's not everyone's cup of tea because it puts the responsibility to the player and can seem a huge task to someone unfamiliar with AC modding. Get it right however, and you are  rewarded with endless top quality content and constantly evolving features.

2 hours ago, JZStudios said:

And most mod tracks look terrible. 

Again, the trick you are failing to grasp is being able to separate good quality mods from low quality ones.

AC (which, lest we forget, is a 2013 low-budget indie simulator that was never officially developed to have high-end graphics) mod tracks:

Screenshot_ks_lotus_3_eleven_lilski_road_america_10-5-120-20-44-5.thumb.jpg.90675fd07e0791a3c6ab3c8f59496d8d.jpgScreenshot_shelby_cobra_427sc_feldberg_25-8-118-1-13-42.thumb.jpg.8d0cefdb85cb23d10893622c0ab9bb96.jpg

Screenshot_ks_porsche_911_carrera_rsr_thomson_20-8-120-2-26-50.thumb.jpg.48f581beb170f75f538af1daf8c5583e.jpg

note: I took these shots on the exact same settings I use when I drive in AC. I don't use photomode-only effects like DoF for screenshots. So my screenshots are nothing really special, but they look the same as when I drive.

Official track for 2019 AAA game with high-end graphics, in what should be clear weather:

20191112171257_1.thumb.jpg.015ea159971092ea94808cf7afa400cf.jpg

Mind you, some of the AC track mods that don't look particularly good can be perfectly driveable, even if you won't be blown away by the visuals. Some of them are pure trash, some of them are WIP, some are just not made to look good. Because you know, amateur modder working with no pay in his free time has no obligation to spend a huge amount of work on the visuals, whereas with professional developers working on AAA games with high-end graphics you'd kind of expect their work would look half decent.

Edited by HoksuHoo
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When I had Asetto, I spent months getting all the cars, tracks and mods, then setting the cars up and driving them. It was then that I discovered that the AI just wouldn't let me have a decent race. I was either several seconds ahead or several seconds behind and there was no middle ground. I then had a major falling out with the AC community on Race Department and I decided to leave both them and the game behind. When I came to uninstall it, I realised, to my horror, that I'd installed well over 100gb worth of mods!! So far, the only driving game at which I don't seem to suck is Dirt Rally 2.0. It is also highly playable with minimal mods and I do actually enjoy the community.

Edited by Rogerbee

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Each their own. I play quite a lot of singleplayer in AC and I usually have as good racing as any singleplayer racing I have had. Hell of a lot better singleplayer racing than the rallycross in DR2.0, let me tell you. The AI in AC can require some trial and error to get difficulty (and/or BoP if you use those) right but 99 times out of 100 I am able to do that. Whereas with the rallycross AI in DR2.0, what am I supposed to do about being way faster than AI drivers but way slower than the randomized qualifier times? Neither decreasing nor increasing difficulty works there since the same difficulty contains two difficulties that are worlds apart. Never encountered that problem in AC during 1000+ hours, the simulated qualifier times are always quite accurate. Never in a million years in AC you are going to encounter simulated qualifying times that are a mind-boggling 4 seconds per kilometer off the mark like in DR2.0

Edited by HoksuHoo

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I've never played much of the rallycross in DR2.0, it just didn't interest me. I purposely didn't buy a bundle deal so that I could omit all the cars and tracks that I wasn't going to need or use. I bought DR2.0 so I could enjoy the solo thrills.

Edited by Rogerbee

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I bought DR2.0 for rally first and foremost, but since rallycross is there I thought I might as well give it a try. I might actually play it quite a lot if not for the broken AI which ruins singeplayer rallycross racing. Lots of fine rallycross tracks and cars, a shame they aren't good for much more than hotlapping, in a game that offers an infinitely superior discipline for driving against the clock.

Edited by HoksuHoo

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2 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

I bought DR2.0 for rally first and foremost, but since rallycross is there I thought I might as well give it a try. I might actually play it quite a lot if not for the broken AI which ruins singeplayer rallycross racing. Lots of fine rallycross tracks and cars, a shame they aren't good for much more than hotlapping, in a game that offers an infinitely superior discipline for driving against the clock.

I've been considering for a while making a detailed report of the problem with Rallycross AI, including screenshots and video evidence of just what needs improving.

  • The discrepancies between wet/dry for example, how easy it is to beat the AI in the rain.
  • Or how difficult Barcelona and South Africa for example are compared to Latvia on the same difficulty setting.
  • Or how much the AI slow down in the penultimate corner of Estering, or the hairpin at Abu Dhabi, or the joker merge in Barcelona.

It should be obvious to anyone who's ever played Rallycross for more than 1 race that the AI is woefully inconsistent, especially when you play the championship mode or custom seasons.

I would make a report like this, but then I realise it's not my job. I'm not a game tester, I don't work for Codemasters. They should be doing this themselves and should have been doing since day 1.

And to top it all off! They actually made the AI in the rain EASIER to beat in the last patch! Despite numerous reports to the contrary, did they test anything, like, at all!?

Anyway, thank you for coming to my TED talk 

</rant>

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I wouldn't hold out any hope for AI changes in DiRT Rally 2.0. There's none (documented) in 1.16.

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14 minutes ago, PJTierney said:

I wouldn't hold out any hope for AI changes in DiRT Rally 2.0. There's none (documented) in 1.16.

So rallycross AI will most likely remain broken permanently, and singleplayer rallycross will remain broken permanently. Effing great, thanks for the info.

You know, I have been reporting this game-breaking issue about the broken rallycross AI for A YEAR. I started playing in September 2019, didn't take me long to realize there is something very badly wrong with rallycross AI, didn't take me long to figure out exactly what that is, and every single last bug report thread since then I have reported it, hoping it would be fixed. And as far as I can tell no one working for Codemasters ever given a damn about it. I'm being an unpaid tester for Codemasters and you don't even have the courtesy to give a toss about extremely blatant game-breaking issues I'm bringing to your attention that should have never been in a retail released game in the first place.

For future titles, please LEAVE RALLYCROSS OUT COMPLETELY. Since Codies don't give a toss if it works or not it's better not to have it at all, just such a waste having all that content but leaving it broken. Oh and congrats for making me use caps lock for emphasis, that should look great in the CV of whoever is responsible for the broken AI.

Edited by HoksuHoo
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7 minutes ago, gymkanaenzo32 said:

tomorrow's update is 1.16?

 

No.

v1.16 doesn't have an announced release date yet. It's not far away though.

Tomorrow we'll have server maintenance, as which will interrupt online connections for a few hours.

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28 minutes ago, VirtuaIceMan said:

A little detour, but art of rally seems to be reviewing well. And they even say "the handling here has more in common with Dirt Rally than Sega Rally", see here: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2020-09-22-art-of-rally-review-a-slight-yet-stylish-take-on-off-road-driving

I'm happy that came out well and it getting good reviews 🙂 

 

There's a thread for it here by the way:

 

 

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Further to the points above I would definitely refer to the rallycross AI as "inconsistent" rather than "broken". On some circuits it works really well, but on others it seems - as has already been said - to be all over the place. I wasn't expecting it to be fixed with DR2.0, but I really hope that it something that is addressed in future DR titles. 

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1 hour ago, PJTierney said:

No.

v1.16 doesn't have an announced release date yet. It's not far away though.

Tomorrow we'll have server maintenance, as which will interrupt online connections for a few hours.

OK, thanks . I hope it's good for early October. the wait for the new fiesta is starting to get long 🤣

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