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DiRTy Gossip about DIRT Rally Games

PJTierney

 

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1 hour ago, tbtstt said:

Further to the points above I would definitely refer to the rallycross AI as "inconsistent" rather than "broken". On some circuits it works really well, but on others it seems - as has already been said - to be all over the place. I wasn't expecting it to be fixed with DR2.0, but I really hope that it something that is addressed in future DR titles. 

I'd rather not argue semantics, but in my view it's entirely justified to call it broken. Because this inconsistency is so enormous that it makes singleplayer rallycross completely impossible on my level. Hence I call it broken since it doesn't work anywhere near well enough to enable decent singleplayer racing. I mean, the sheer degree of this inconsistency is something astonishing, at least on my level, maybe it's different if you play on 100%/masters. It's completely random which level AI drivers turn up, depending on the track and weather they can be crazy fast or drive at snail's pace. And the randomized qualifying times can be 7, 10, 16, 20 seconds off the mark. 7 seconds discrepancy over a 2-minute race on a 1km track is staggering, 20 (meaning 5 seconds per lap) is like open vs masters. I'm a mediocre driver who has barely ever played rallycross (I'd like to but I can't since it doesn't work) and I'm not that far behind world records with supercars. Small inconsistency is one thing but how can be THAT severely wrong, boggles the mind.

Yes, it absolutely needs to be addressed in future DR titles, to put it very midly. Rallycross should not be in the game in this state.

Edited by HoksuHoo

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21 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

In games with little or no modding you have to deal with the whims of the developers. Who might make up the numbers because they don't have all the details, or maybe they just don't know what they're doing, or maybe they are just incredibly sloppy and careless. Official content as opposed to an unofficial mod does not inherently guarantee it's of super high quality and accuracy, there are various games with official licensed content I wouldn't bother downloading as grid fillers for singleplayer racing in AC.

Agreed, a lot of stock AC cars are terrible. Once again, not very convincing that it's a good game. The most noticeable one that immediately stands out is the GT86 which in reality is fantastic at low speed drifting, something PC2 handles quite well. It doesn't drift at all in AC and is an outright bore.

Base game content should however have a baseline performance metric to match up to in terms of quality.

22 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

As for details, let me tell you, one does not have to be a god-tier AC car modder like Pessio or a3dr let alone ancient elder god-tier modder like RSS to get the correct amount of gears for Ford Focus WRC 2007, or to know that BMW M1 is mid-engined, or that Renault 5 Turbo has a H-pattern manual gearbox, or how an interior of a certain car looks like, because you can find out such things in seconds by googling. Or to understand rudimentary stuff regarding cars such as how windshield wipers work. And yet professional developers working for Codemasters managed to get them wrong for their official content. You need to get the basics right before you can even go to details. Can't do quantum physics if you can't do grade school math sort of thing. So imagine how detailed and accurate the numbers are in a car that doesn't even have the correct gearbox.

The number of gears, sure, that's easy to find. The correct gear ratios, suspension geometry, spring rates, wheel angle/rotation, etc. aren't so easy to find. It's not like modders magically find these things.

22 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

With AC modding there are all kinds of mods available. Some of the stuff is vastly better quality that you can find in the majority of racing games. Like, tracks that are more accurate than in F1 series, cars that are more accurate and detailed than cars in DR2.0. And there are huge amounts of complete trash, like three billion 1-minute Forza rip with physics copy-pasted from a random Kunos car that doesn't even remotely resemble that car, and a collision model lightyears off the mark. The trick is to separate the wheat from the chaff, to learn how to figure out which mods are top quality and which are trash. I can understand that's not everyone's cup of tea because it puts the responsibility to the player and can seem a huge task to someone unfamiliar with AC modding. Get it right however, and you are  rewarded with endless top quality content and constantly evolving features.

It's not even close to endless when the majority is garbage and it's dying off. See, here's the thing, I actually paid for a Blender course to make a VERY high quality Corvette (Which I recommend if you're into modelling, but I never finished it)

So I can have this beautiful model but not know anything about sound or physics, or hell even how to make it actually look good in game. So yeah, I can figure out where the engine is, how many gears it has, if it's sequential, but I'd just be making up everything else to random values I assume are "good enough."

It just doesn't really work. The official forum also banned mods, so now you really have to scour different sites just trying to find something good, which still probably actually isn't that realistic.

 

22 hours ago, HoksuHoo said:

Again, the trick you are failing to grasp is being able to separate good quality mods from low quality ones.

AC (which, lest we forget, is a 2013 low-budget indie simulator that was never officially developed to have high-end graphics) mod tracks:

note: I took these shots on the exact same settings I use when I drive in AC. I don't use photomode-only effects like DoF for screenshots. So my screenshots are nothing really special, but they look the same as when I drive.

Official track for 2019 AAA game with high-end graphics, in what should be clear weather:

Mind you, some of the AC track mods that don't look particularly good can be perfectly driveable, even if you won't be blown away by the visuals. Some of them are pure trash, some of them are WIP, some are just not made to look good. Because you know, amateur modder working with no pay in his free time has no obligation to spend a huge amount of work on the visuals, whereas with professional developers working on AAA games with high-end graphics you'd kind of expect their work would look half decent.

Most of the highly rated/most used tracks look awful. That's just a fact.

You're also being a tad disingenuous using the CSP or whatever. That's not the base game. Compare the base game, and toss in some effects like dust or smoke, which makes AC **** the bed in performance. And once again, the game only looks half decent by using a mod full of features the creators of the engine said was impossible. I actually spent time trying to work on the skybox in base AC, and it's literally an upside down bowl with a gradient on it and 2d clouds pasted on, making it impossible to make anything look half decent. Actually makes me curious how Sol works.

A random comparison to a single shot doesn't mean anything, especially when it's on an engine we all know is outdated and people complain about looking awful. It still has nothing to do with AC being not great.

 

I'm getting the feeling you think that I'm praising CM. I'm not. I don't even have DR or DR2 installed. Memorized the tracks in DR and it got kind of boring, DR2 has an issue with throttle control, which apparently only affects me where throttle acts like an on/off switch instead of a linear slider. Which means I'm either going flat out, or not at all and it's annoying and makes it hard to corner. I've also not been shy about saying I really disapprove of the FFB and the physics were far better in the pre-alpha build, at least on tarmac.

I'm very critical of CM, it's just that AC manages to be so overwhelmingly mediocre in all aspects making it the worst product.

 

22 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

When I had Asetto, I spent months getting all the cars, tracks and mods, then setting the cars up and driving them. It was then that I discovered that the AI just wouldn't let me have a decent race. I was either several seconds ahead or several seconds behind and there was no middle ground. I then had a major falling out with the AC community on Race Department and I decided to leave both them and the game behind. When I came to uninstall it, I realised, to my horror, that I'd installed well over 100gb worth of mods!! So far, the only driving game at which I don't seem to suck is Dirt Rally 2.0. It is also highly playable with minimal mods and I do actually enjoy the community.

I've just recently randomly come across a FFB file for PC2 that I never bothered to uninstall, and it completely changed the game for me. For the first time since I got my wheel I spent a week straight playing the same game. It actually feels fantastic. I haven't messed with AI too much as I've been primarily hotlapping and doing setups, but it simulates more than AC, feels better now, and actually runs better while looking better natively. There's also a lot more setup options for nearly every car.

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11 minutes ago, JZStudios said:

snip

Just to sum up along with some additional points, I said that AC isn't very good and is only really supported by mods, to which you responded with "Well yeah, but there's mods." Like, that really doesn't invalidate my argument.

As an aside, I also don't like AC personally because the triple screen mode doesn't function correctly. It reports 60+ fps, yet it still gets half second long screen tears across all 3 monitors. It's the only game with that issue.

The argument about it being an indie studio, thus it doesn't look good, again, the shader patch, and also there's a small team from Ukraine that made a little indie game on a shoestring budget that said "We deserve the ratings we get. After all, the final consumer doesn't care about our conditions. And this is RIGHT. We need no indulgence."

Then they made Metro on their own engine and blew everyone's minds with their graphics.

Edited by JZStudios

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Project Cars 2 has intrigued me for ages. I didn't have the hardware for it when it launched, but I do now. If I knew I could get a decent race out of it I might be inclined to give it a go sometime. So far, DR2 is the only one that I've stuck with, even though I haven't played it for ages. I've been playing a lot of RPG's and fancy trying a flight sim.

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31 minutes ago, Rogerbee said:

Project Cars 2 has intrigued me for ages. I didn't have the hardware for it when it launched, but I do now. If I knew I could get a decent race out of it I might be inclined to give it a go sometime. So far, DR2 is the only one that I've stuck with, even though I haven't played it for ages. I've been playing a lot of RPG's and fancy trying a flight sim.

I did a race around Laguna Seca in the Lotus 49 which was pretty good. Then I did a race around Nurburgring in go-karts. If you manage to not touch dirt or spin it's really easy to beat the AI. I didn't, but I did get a screenshot of ~5 karts on the carousel. The base driving is actually really enjoyable now. I'm just currently at the point where I want my desk space more than a racing wheel. I'd say it's worth checking out. It has a lot of cars and tracks with a bunch of little customization options in terms of setups and race rules n such.

If you're curious, here's the link to the FFB file; https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/christiaans-pure-ffb.35670/

Oh, there's also the real location weather thing, which no longer works properly and you have to do a thing to get it working.

Edited by JZStudios

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Just an unrelated comment:

Art of Rally is going to be a smash-hit. I can feel it. That bloke has nailed the zeitgeist with the looks of the thing and the handling based on real-life inertia and physics.

And it will be a great thing for Codies, as it will bring in new fans to rally eager for the real-deal.

More reason for DR3.0 to go full subtle, photographic, real-world lighting and colours in their approach. The colourful 'gamey' look is being done elsewhere, in Dirt 5 and AoR.

 

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12 hours ago, JZStudios said:

I did a race around Laguna Seca in the Lotus 49 which was pretty good. Then I did a race around Nurburgring in go-karts. If you manage to not touch dirt or spin it's really easy to beat the AI. I didn't, but I did get a screenshot of ~5 karts on the carousel. The base driving is actually really enjoyable now. I'm just currently at the point where I want my desk space more than a racing wheel. I'd say it's worth checking out. It has a lot of cars and tracks with a bunch of little customization options in terms of setups and race rules n such.

If you're curious, here's the link to the FFB file; https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/christiaans-pure-ffb.35670/

Oh, there's also the real location weather thing, which no longer works properly and you have to do a thing to get it working.

Yeah, I might one day. Some of my RPG's are LOOOOOOOONG though and after paying for them I want to see them through. I don't have a wheel so the FFB thing won't do much.

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9 hours ago, Rogerbee said:

Yeah, I might one day. Some of my RPG's are LOOOOOOOONG though and after paying for them I want to see them through. I don't have a wheel so the FFB thing won't do much.

Ah. I haven't tried it with a controller, but I've only heard it's not great. Then again, so is basically anything else that isn't CM. So at least they've got that going for them.

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Forza Horizon 3 is being delisted on September 27th, it's discounted now on the Microsoft store. Probably music licensing or something stupid like that. Correct me if I'm wrong but the car licencing for Dirt games is indefinite right? If Codemasters can manage this why don't other companies too?

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1 hour ago, JZStudios said:

Ah. I haven't tried it with a controller, but I've only heard it's not great. Then again, so is basically anything else that isn't CM. So at least they've got that going for them.

It's actually good, if you go back a page or two you'll find PJ talking about settings he did for controllers, the game is great on a controller with them.

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On 9/14/2020 at 3:32 AM, ianism said:

at the very least it would be a really good tool to create our own SSS-style stages (and RX tracks, though I don't know if the AI would be able to handle them)

I thought of it as an idea aimed at clubs, creating your own tracks or complete rallys, and that those corresponding to the game (either the career mode or the other modes that have AI) are only those created by the developers as ever

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14 hours ago, Rygar86 said:

Forza Horizon 3 is being delisted on September 27th, it's discounted now on the Microsoft store. Probably music licensing or something stupid like that. Correct me if I'm wrong but the car licencing for Dirt games is indefinite right? If Codemasters can manage this why don't other companies too?

Forza typically do 4 year licenses.

I don't know the durations for DiRT games, but they're certainly not indefinite.

Maybe they get renewed every few years, considering DiRT Rally is still available :classic_huh:

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Well no last minute i20 but, in the latest patch notes:

"FIA World Rallycross Championship:

  • Removed AI driver names which were mistakenly appearing when using 2019-spec cars." 

At least we haven't got the annoyance of seeing the GRX drivers without their cars! 

  • Sad 1

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On 9/27/2020 at 12:32 AM, tbtstt said:

Well no last minute i20 but, in the latest patch notes:

"FIA World Rallycross Championship:

  • Removed AI driver names which were mistakenly appearing when using 2019-spec cars." 

At least we haven't got the annoyance of seeing the GRX drivers without their cars! 

"Mistakenly Appearing" mmhmmm suuuuuure :classic_biggrin:

I reckon Hyundai pulled out at some point 

  • Agree 3

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1 hour ago, MattyH1812 said:

"Mistakenly Appearing" mmhmmm suuuuuure :classic_biggrin:

I reckon Hyundai pulled out at some point 

Yeah, I am not convinced about that justification either... 

  • Agree 1

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Also we have 4 random AI drivers on the 2019 grid now... Same nationalities as the 4 GRX driversUntitled.jpg.15cc67c1c324d4a88068dcd77ba892a2.jpg

Whilst Timo Scheider, Mandie Augus t, Pal Try, Jere Kalliokoski, Sebastian Erkisson and Kevin Erkisson (y'know, actual drivers) are not used

Why must it be this way? Why can't we have nice things?

  • Agree 1

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8 hours ago, tbtstt said:

Yeah, I am not convinced about that justification either... 

On top of the fact that pulling out is no guarantee either! 😄

  • Haha 1

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Playing World RX in DR 2.0 with 2019 cars it's like playing F1 2020 without Ferrari and Renault replacing by fictionnal names and drivers. I don't understand.

  • Agree 1

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